Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion
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Our Lady Peace
Registered User
4-0 brutal loss. Texas is a great team. GR playing from behind way too often. I feel this team lacks offense because of two things:
1) They're programmed to be defense first and don't ever have 3 on 2 rushes. They're pretty easy to stop in the neutral zone.
2)They don't utilize speed well, even in transition. They have plenty of players who can burn but there's not enough risk taking in that regard. Hence my previous point
Whole team looked rough outside of the 4th line. The team sorely misses Watson, Shine, and Mazur
Lines:
Lombardi - Dries - Doucet
Snively - Danielson - Gettinger
Finnie - Becher - Hanas
Bantle - Seger - Johannes
Wallinder - Tuomisto
Buium - Johansson
Knyzhov - Didier
Bednar
Danielson: C+
• Wasn't receiving the puck well tonight. Passing seemed a bit off
On the 1st Stars goal I wanna say he overcommitted trying to help his D behind the net. Jumped in a little too quick maybe. Didier was also trying to maintain a guy and Snively was kind of just.. there
Throwing the body. Been nice to see him using his frame that way consistently over the past few weeks
Lombardi: B
• Aggressive staying with his man defensively and disrupting him
Stars swarmed him whenever he tries to Bob and weave with his skills
Wallinder: B-
• Seemed to struggle against the Stars heavy forecheck
He plays at a fast pace all the time and that includes behind his goal. Eventually his decision making is going to have to be razor sharp if he's playing that fast because NHL forecheckers come in fast and out of nowhere
Late 2nd he was found loose in the slot and had a golden chance but Hellberg makes a big save
Buium: B+
• Taking the body when player cuts back and tries to squeeze into loose space alone the OZ half wall
Competing hard for pucks and coming out on top and then showing good decision making with the puck
Tuomisto: B
• Fairly solid tonight. Had a shot on goal from the right circle but didn't stand out in any particular way
Becher: B-
• Bad tip pass off the DZ half-wall that goes right to a Star and takes it to the net where Bednar has to make a good right pad save
PP late 2nd he takes a puck rung around the boards in the OZ and does a super slick head fake, opens up his hips, touches the puck and darts into the middle to feed Finnie for a good shot off
Johansson: C
• He tried to close in on Blumel going backhand on the first goal but couldn't get there in time. Idk, I feel he could have skated a little harder to disrupt the guy shooting from his backhand
End of 1st where Wallinder got forechecked in the corner, Stars gain possession and fire a quick pass in front where Johansson is cruising around the net and doesn't get to his man fast enough. I don't think he sensed that double-man pressure on Wallinder well because he should have gone right to the front of the net where his man was and got a big chance in front. Again Bednar bails them out
His defensive reads and timing appear to be off. Hopefully can tune those in with more AHL games under his belt
Aggressive play along the boards and in the corners
Finnie: C+
• 1st period has a few puck touches but couldn't gain control too well. His decision making with it in tighter spaces was good
Later in the 3rd he had a couple 1 on 1 moves in the OZ that partially beat the defender. Both resulted in him retrieving his puck and continued GR possession
Real smart defensive stick check timed perfectly in the circle after his errant tip pass off the boards. Griffins gain possession and escape danger
Was on PP2, had a controlled zone entry and two shots from the left circle. One of which just goes high right past the post
2nd Stars goal they were cris-crossing inside the blueline and Finnie wasn't quick enough to get to his man which was the shooter at the point and he scores off a good shot
1) They're programmed to be defense first and don't ever have 3 on 2 rushes. They're pretty easy to stop in the neutral zone.
2)They don't utilize speed well, even in transition. They have plenty of players who can burn but there's not enough risk taking in that regard. Hence my previous point
Whole team looked rough outside of the 4th line. The team sorely misses Watson, Shine, and Mazur
Lines:
Lombardi - Dries - Doucet
Snively - Danielson - Gettinger
Finnie - Becher - Hanas
Bantle - Seger - Johannes
Wallinder - Tuomisto
Buium - Johansson
Knyzhov - Didier
Bednar
Danielson: C+
• Wasn't receiving the puck well tonight. Passing seemed a bit off
On the 1st Stars goal I wanna say he overcommitted trying to help his D behind the net. Jumped in a little too quick maybe. Didier was also trying to maintain a guy and Snively was kind of just.. there
Throwing the body. Been nice to see him using his frame that way consistently over the past few weeks
Lombardi: B
• Aggressive staying with his man defensively and disrupting him
Stars swarmed him whenever he tries to Bob and weave with his skills
Wallinder: B-
• Seemed to struggle against the Stars heavy forecheck
He plays at a fast pace all the time and that includes behind his goal. Eventually his decision making is going to have to be razor sharp if he's playing that fast because NHL forecheckers come in fast and out of nowhere
Late 2nd he was found loose in the slot and had a golden chance but Hellberg makes a big save
Buium: B+
• Taking the body when player cuts back and tries to squeeze into loose space alone the OZ half wall
Competing hard for pucks and coming out on top and then showing good decision making with the puck
Tuomisto: B
• Fairly solid tonight. Had a shot on goal from the right circle but didn't stand out in any particular way
Becher: B-
• Bad tip pass off the DZ half-wall that goes right to a Star and takes it to the net where Bednar has to make a good right pad save
PP late 2nd he takes a puck rung around the boards in the OZ and does a super slick head fake, opens up his hips, touches the puck and darts into the middle to feed Finnie for a good shot off
Johansson: C
• He tried to close in on Blumel going backhand on the first goal but couldn't get there in time. Idk, I feel he could have skated a little harder to disrupt the guy shooting from his backhand
End of 1st where Wallinder got forechecked in the corner, Stars gain possession and fire a quick pass in front where Johansson is cruising around the net and doesn't get to his man fast enough. I don't think he sensed that double-man pressure on Wallinder well because he should have gone right to the front of the net where his man was and got a big chance in front. Again Bednar bails them out
His defensive reads and timing appear to be off. Hopefully can tune those in with more AHL games under his belt
Aggressive play along the boards and in the corners
Finnie: C+
• 1st period has a few puck touches but couldn't gain control too well. His decision making with it in tighter spaces was good
Later in the 3rd he had a couple 1 on 1 moves in the OZ that partially beat the defender. Both resulted in him retrieving his puck and continued GR possession
Real smart defensive stick check timed perfectly in the circle after his errant tip pass off the boards. Griffins gain possession and escape danger
Was on PP2, had a controlled zone entry and two shots from the left circle. One of which just goes high right past the post
2nd Stars goal they were cris-crossing inside the blueline and Finnie wasn't quick enough to get to his man which was the shooter at the point and he scores off a good shot
Sure. But he had been scoring - had more than doubled his goals the last few weeks - and now the team has scored 2 goals in 3 games so yeah. The Griffins are missing most of their original top 6 at this point.
izlez
We need more toe-drags/60
- Feb 28, 2012
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I think if you asked HFBoards a couple years ago, you would see people hoping this would describe Wallinder on the Red Wings right now. Now, its not even him in GR? That seems like a problem
Run the Jewels
Make Detroit Great Again
Eh, nothing wrong with a bit of competition. We desperately need one of these goalies to hit and given the track record from our NA scouts I can't exactly say I feel confident at this point. Would love to be proven wrong though.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
These are excuses IMO. Texas lost Stankoven/Bourque who were their top 2 scorers and other guys stepped up. It is an indictment on our prospects that none of them can score at the AHL level.
Not trying to be an ass, but I'd personally give your opinion more credibility if you hadn't waited for an admittedly horrible 3 game stretch before posting this.
Assuming you're mostly talking about Danielson....
1 month ago - "He's only scored 4 times!!"
the last few weeks - He scores 5 times. Absolutely nothing from you.
Now he goes pointless in 3 games and it's back to dooming.
Yes, he should have more points. But you can't just ignore that the Griffins just ... don't score a lot period. He's still outpacing Kasper who is doing damn well in the NHL this year.
I’d also add it’s well beyond (expectingly) graduating a couple of top prospects.
Griffins are down Shine, Watson, Soderblom and Mazur. All top 9, arguably top 6 forwards on the team that are gone.
Griffins are down Shine, Watson, Soderblom and Mazur. All top 9, arguably top 6 forwards on the team that are gone.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
I'm not dooming dude. I'm very glad he did well the last few weeks but he's still at around a 0.5PPG on the season. He's also like 4 months younger than Kasper and one of the oldest players in his draft class - I think Kasper would be doing a lot better this year in the AHL.
I'm not ignoring that the Griffins don't score much. But the fact that the Griffins don't score much is because...our prospects don't score much. It's not like one is true without the other.
I want nothing more than for Danielson to succeed. I hope he makes me eat my words. I'm just pointing out that over the course of the season he's not translated his supposedly very good play to actual scoring, and that is somewhat concerning. It doesn't mean he's a bust or a failure but it's at least something to be aware of.
Feel like there's no room for nuance on these boards - either you're a cheerleader or you're a hater and doomer. I don't think Danielson is having a horrible year but he's not having a good one either. It's kind of alright for a D+2 in the AHL and I'd hoped for more from him at this stage. That's all.
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I mean .. the post I responded to said this: "It is an indictment on our prospects that none of them can score at the AHL level."
... you don't think that was just a bit too black and white? Lacking in nuance?
I know Danielson's older than Kasper was but I think it's pretty unfair to not directly compare draft years, especially when Marco had what, 2.5 years of pro experience before coming to GR?
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
I don't see how that is lacking in nuance? It is an indictment on our prospects that none of them (so far) have been able to score a lot at the AHL level. How is that untrue? Lombardi is the only one that's even close to being a high scorer at that level.
It doesn't mean they're all busts but it's not a good thing. That's all I'm saying.
You said that “none of them can score”.
First, that’s just not accurate. Lombardi has had a very good year. Mazur was almost a point per game when he came back.
Second, yes, I’d argue that just saying they can’t score is absolutely lacking nuance.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
Fair enough dude, this is semantics at this point. Obviously some of them have been doing better than others but none of them are significant scorers at the AHL level. Most players who end up 50-70pt+ at the NHL level (whcih is what we need, not more 30-40pt tweeners to replace Compher and Copp) are PPG+ at the AHL level.
Yeah let’s drop it. No worries.
Ok I lied.. one more point- again, Kasper was .492 ppg last year with the Griffins.
Right now as a 20-year old he’s trending for 17 goals 35 points in 82 games.
Obviously it’s still super early and all that.. but you have to concede it’s looking like Kasper is more than a 40 point scorer in the NHL right?
that alone would dispute your last point.
Our Lady Peace
Registered User
This Griffins team doesn't have one single 40 point scorer after 60+ games. Only 4 other teams are in this boat as well:
• Abbotsford - bunch of players near PPG despite not quite at 40 points
• Henderson - one close to PPG guy in Laczynski
• Utica - same as Henderson, 2nd lowest Goals For in the league
• Manitoba - lowest Goals For in the league by 9
hoals
Griffins are a far-cry from what they were last year in terms of offense and defense. GR went 2 months with no Lombardi or Mazur and then Soderblom gets called up halfway through that time. Last year the whole roster was in tact and could maintain chemistry. They just don't have that this year nearly quite as much
Danielson is the guy I am least worried about. I've said this already, but let's wait until he plays 60 NHL games like Kasper has before we abandon ship. Maybe, just maybe, he will surprise some here that are staunchly skeptical
• Abbotsford - bunch of players near PPG despite not quite at 40 points
• Henderson - one close to PPG guy in Laczynski
• Utica - same as Henderson, 2nd lowest Goals For in the league
• Manitoba - lowest Goals For in the league by 9
hoals
Griffins are a far-cry from what they were last year in terms of offense and defense. GR went 2 months with no Lombardi or Mazur and then Soderblom gets called up halfway through that time. Last year the whole roster was in tact and could maintain chemistry. They just don't have that this year nearly quite as much
Danielson is the guy I am least worried about. I've said this already, but let's wait until he plays 60 NHL games like Kasper has before we abandon ship. Maybe, just maybe, he will surprise some here that are staunchly skeptical
ShanahanMan
Registered User
Boy this thread is starting to reach high levels of excuses here.
Something to keep in mind. Svechnikov and Zadina put up better numbers than Danielson in GR.
Something to keep in mind. Svechnikov and Zadina put up better numbers than Danielson in GR.
I'm going to trust the opinions of folks who watch these kids on at least a somewhat regular basis over worrying about box scores.
lilidk
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2008
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Svechnikov had trauma that effected his skating. Zadina was superstar in his mind.
Danielson is Helm with little better hands. He actually progressing better than I thought he would, same Wallinder. Didn't like those 2 pics, but they are proving me wrong I guess
Unfriendly Ghost
Kasper
I don't know why, but the AHL is the only league where people routinely feel like they know exactly what's going on for entire teams and entire seasons without watching a single game.
If it's the KHL or SHL, people admit they have no idea. But the AHL? Experts, all of us.
If it's the KHL or SHL, people admit they have no idea. But the AHL? Experts, all of us.
ShanahanMan
Registered User
lilidk
Registered User
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19 for president
Registered User
- Apr 28, 2002
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I don't disagree to some extent but the Svech/Zadina comment is also reaching and selective.
Soderblom has 10 pts in 23 games at the NHL level and only had 17 in 38 at the AHL level this year.
If you look at just first year in the AHL for guys that made it as reg nhlers from our system:
Danielson have 32 in 69 games this year
Kasper had 35 points in 71 games
Bert had 30 points in 71 games
Mantha had 33 in 62 games
AA had 32 in 55 games
Jarnkrok 36 in 58 games
You have to go back to Nyquist and Tatar to really find an exception. Tatar also put up similar numbers but I do give him a bonus as he was 18 at the time. Berggy also falls into the higher points first season if you count his as an NHL reg.
Svechnikov never recovered his speed after his ACL tear, and that was a career ender for him at the NHL level. Had he not had the injury I think he likely is able to make a legit NHL career out of it. Also he only had 1 year that was better on a pretty stacked GR team. He followed up his 51 pt season with two 25 pt seasons.
Yes but with top 10 picks I want guys that can be potentially a top line player or top pair dman.
lilidk
Registered User
- Mar 4, 2008
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Matthew wood was mine . Cole eiserman last yr... wanted kasper and Raymond and we took them ... like you said it is what it is , we don’t know what becomes of any of these guys until years later.
When we’re picking that high I just want to take someOne with big upside cause unless we’re winning as you can tell those players aren’t coming here . Don’t want a safe pick in the top 10
