Prospect Info: Grand Rapids Griffins Discussion

[norrisnick]

Yeah... the GR goalie situation is a bit odd. You'd think with their recent performance they'd lean a bit more in Cossa's direction. Games since the start of March are 11 for Cossa and 8 for Hutch. But... Cossa has a .916SV and a ~2.3GAA vs .870SV and ~3.3GAA in that span. Might be time to go 3 for Cossa, 1 for Hutch. Unless they really want to limit Cossa's usage before the playoffs? I hope they don't alternate in the playoffs...

 

[RRhoads]

It was their third game in three nights, with Cossa already starting two in a row.

 

[norrisnick]

It was their third game in three nights, with Cossa already starting two in a row.

That's right. I forgot the bus-league has a super-f***y schedule.

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah... the GR goalie situation is a bit odd. You'd think with their recent performance they'd lean a bit more in Cossa's direction. Games since the start of March are 11 for Cossa and 8 for Hutch. But... Cossa has a .916SV and a ~2.3GAA vs .870SV and ~3.3GAA in that span. Might be time to go 3 for Cossa, 1 for Hutch. Unless they really want to limit Cossa's usage before the playoffs? I hope they don't alternate in the playoffs...

This is one thing I don't like about the Wings management. They always think you need to baby everyone along instead of just letting them play if it clear they are much better than the other people around them. Cossa is young, but pretty sure he can handle a 45-50-20-25 type game load at this point, instead of a 37-33 type like they have going. Especially since Hutch has crap stats.

It was their third game in three nights, with Cossa already starting two in a row.

Cossa should still have way more starts than Hutch, regardless of the 3 games in 3 nights they do in the AHL at times.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Cossa is young, but pretty sure he can handle a 45-50-20-25 type game load at this point, instead of a 37-33 type like they have going. Especially since Hutch has crap stats.

You are "pretty sure" the same way people were "pretty sure" Lyon could handle a true starting goalie's workload back when he was playing well. Part of why Cossa is doing so well is very likely due to smart game management, keeping his workload reasonable and allowing him to build his confidence slowly but surely.

Now he's set up perfectly to be the true #1 next season.

 

[Oddbob]

You are "pretty sure" the same way people were "pretty sure" Lyon could handle a true starting goalie's workload back when he was playing well. Part of why Cossa is doing so well is very likely due to smart game management, keeping his workload reasonable and allowing him to build his confidence slowly but surely.

Now he's set up perfectly to be the true #1 next season.

No. I never thought Lyon could handle a starter workload. He is an AHL starter/NHL backup who can get in hot streaks where he plays well for decent stretches. Most goalies of Cossa's level play better when they play more, not less. I think one of the reasons there are so few good NHL goalies these days is because they over-do the load management business. Even when starting goalies are hot in the NHL, they can never play back to back or make lets say 10 straight starts. The game speed is faster, the goalie position though is not that much harder a pace because of the game speed.

Why couldn't Cossa be the true #1 this season? They likely don't wait so long to get good. Remember how GR started badly and looked like an easy playoff miss? Large part is playing a goalie in Hutch who has played bad all year.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Why couldn't Cossa be the true #1 this season? They likely don't wait so long to get good. Remember how GR started badly and looked like an easy playoff miss? Large part is playing a goalie in Hutch who has played bad all year.

He's still an AHL rookie. His play prior to the new year was good, but not amazing. And under Watson's watch in the ECHL the prior year he followed a very similar trajectory which worked out great. Plenty of reasons to think they played it just right. Cossa right now looks better than even the most optimistic believers hoped.

 

[Oddbob]

He's still an AHL rookie. His play prior to the new year was good, but not amazing. And under Watson's watch in the ECHL the prior year he followed a very similar trajectory which worked out great. Plenty of reasons to think they played it just right. Cossa right now looks better than even the most optimistic believers hoped.

Yeah, but who says that Cossa isn't just a slow season start goalie? Lundqvist for example was a slow start goalie most of the time, and lots of goalies are like this. Not saying he doesn't need to be slow-rolled, but I don't like how that is the only thing the Wings/GR management seem to know.

 

[norrisnick]

You are "pretty sure" the same way people were "pretty sure" Lyon could handle a true starting goalie's workload back when he was playing well. Part of why Cossa is doing so well is very likely due to smart game management, keeping his workload reasonable and allowing him to build his confidence slowly but surely.

Now he's set up perfectly to be the true #1 next season.

Extremes, dude. Lyon had a stretch where he played 25 of 28 Wings' games. That's not a true starting goalie's workload.

 

[heyfolks]

It was their third game in three nights, with Cossa already starting two in a row.

With one game a last minute start (When Husso tore a nail).

 

[heyfolks]

I want the Wings in and the Griffins to do great w/o Simon. I want Copp and Ras back so the emergency call ups are back in GR.

I understand the Wings are likely one and donw in the post season, and I doubt they send Simon down after they conclude. IF the Grifs have a long run to the Calder with Cossa, Kasper, Wallinder, Johansson and Tourmisto leading the way, the season will be a huge success.

 

[lilidk]

You are "pretty sure" the same way people were "pretty sure" Lyon could handle a true starting goalie's workload back when he was playing well. Part of why Cossa is doing so well is very likely due to smart game management, keeping his workload reasonable and allowing him to build his confidence slowly but surely.

Now he's set up perfectly to be the true #1 next season.

And some games with Detroit

 

[19 for president]

I want the Wings in and the Griffins to do great w/o Simon. I want Copp and Ras back so the emergency call ups are back in GR.

I understand the Wings are likely one and donw in the post season, and I doubt they send Simon down after they conclude. IF the Grifs have a long run to the Calder with Cossa, Kasper, Wallinder, Johansson and Tourmisto leading the way, the season will be a huge success.

I want all of this too but I do think they'd send Ed down once we were eliminated. Playoff experience where you are a team leader is still great experience even if it is at the AHL level.

 

[heyfolks]

I want all of this too but I do think they'd send Ed down once we were eliminated. Playoff experience where you are a team leader is still great experience even if it is at the AHL level.

I had this as my first thought, but tried to put myself into the management position. He is in Detroit to stay. They may want him to take that time to prep for the move to the NHL. Don't get me wrong, would love to see him head to the A and dominate, I just don't thing the Wings will take him from the private plane to the bus to end the year.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

Hasn't been that much of a run in the NHL for Ed, 14 straight games if they miss playoffs. It could go either way if the Wings miss or if they're eliminated early. Ed would certainly benefit IMO from being one of the leaders of an extended Calder Cup run. It's not just him either. Cossa and up to half a dozen other young players would benefit from going three series deep or further and Ed would help that happen. Cossa's the only one with NA pro playoff experience and that was ECHL.

On the other hand, after treating Ed like a minor-leaguer all year, management may have woken up finally and realized he's an NHLer and that it should be his choice. If he wants to return to GR, he should. If not, let him do whatever.

 

[RRhoads]

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

The AHL is pretty low scoring this season. It's really reminding me of peak DPE NHL right now.

For context, there are 10 players above 60 points. 3 guys in the top 10 scoring above a point per game. 6 in the top 20. 56 players with 20+ goals and only 6 with 30+.

For those of us here who are angry about the lack of gaudy stats, we should look at the bigger picture.

 

[Oddbob]

The AHL is pretty low scoring this season. It's really reminding me of peak DPE NHL right now.

For context, there are 10 players above 60 points. 3 guys in the top 10 scoring above a point per game. 6 in the top 20. 56 players with 20+ goals and only 6 with 30+.

For those of us here who are angry about the lack of gaudy stats, we should look at the bigger picture.

Can't we just look at the smaller picture and pretend it is big?

 

[19 for president]

The AHL is pretty low scoring this season. It's really reminding me of peak DPE NHL right now.

For context, there are 10 players above 60 points. 3 guys in the top 10 scoring above a point per game. 6 in the top 20. 56 players with 20+ goals and only 6 with 30+.

For those of us here who are angry about the lack of gaudy stats, we should look at the bigger picture.

I was just doing a Kasper vs Flip point/ play comparison and realized how much scoring is down. That year Flip was 5th on the Grifs with 70 points.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Can't we just look at the smaller picture and pretend it is big?

No.

I was just doing a Kasper vs Flip point/ play comparison and realized how much scoring is down. That year Flip was 5th on the Grifs with 70 points.

Kasper is 3rd on the team in scoring and leads them in +/- as well. It’s crazy how much scoring has dipped in that league.

 

[jaster]

I had a few more notes from the game on Saturday that I didn't get around to posting earlier....

Johansson - This guy is definitely ready for a bigger challenge. I hesitate to use the cliche "he looks bored," because that carries the implication that he's not trying.... let's just say the AHL is easy for him. His reads, his stick, his 4-way skating... he defended just about every play that came his way perfectly. There was a calmness and steadiness to his game that I found pretty noticeable. With the right partner, I can still see 2nd-pair potential here, though his size remains a question. How he ultimately performs in the NHL also remains a question, but this kid is ready for his chance in Detroit.

Lombardi - I want to like this kid, I really do, but there are questions. His size/strength is a major concern, and I no longer hold the belief that he could be a center at the highest level. He gets pushed off of the puck so easily and can't win a board battle to save his life... against AHLers. His success will be dependent on him being an elusive winger who finds soft spots on the ice to generate offense. 3rd-line winger type who needs sheltered minutes. Berggren vibes in terms of deployment. He also made some questionable decisions with the puck. I wn't draw conclusions from that because of the sample size, but he had a chance to score the go-ahead goal in the 3rd from the slot at one point but decided to pull up and opt for a low-probability shot instead.

Wallinder - Still not sure. Looked solid enough. Played 3rd-pair minutes. Could definitely stand to be a little tougher on the puck, though I know that's not his game. He can transition the puck well, so that gives him some floor as a prospective NHLer. Not sure I see much in terms of offense or shutdown defense (Johansson is a much better defender at this level, despite the size difference). Looks like a prototypical #5/6 who has size, skating, and a transition game that won't embarrass himself.

Soderblom - Looked the same as last season. Not a ton of hustle and lacks consistency shift to shift. There's still some upside though, given the tools. I think the window is closing though.

Mazur - Little bit of a quiet game. His official assist was on the ENG, but he probably deserved an assist on Kasper's first goal too - he made the play that caused the Wolves turnover that went to Marco. He was definitely sticking his nose into things, got some Wolves riled up in front of their net one time. I would liked to have seen him be a bigger presence in the overall offense, especially being on a line with Kasper and Berggren, but it was just one game, and he's still the 2nd-leading scorer on the team. Coaches gonna love this kid because he does all the little things.

Kasper - Highest ceiling of anyone in the game, comfortably. He was buzzing. He was banging, he was cycling, he was shooting. He's ever-present. As long as his game translates up to the NHL, and I don't see why it wouldn't, he should be a fan-favorite.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I had a few more notes from the game on Saturday that I didn't get around to posting earlier....

Lombardi - I want to like this kid, I really do, but there are questions. His size/strength is a major concern, and I no longer hold the belief that he could be a center at the highest level. He gets pushed off of the puck so easily and can't win a board battle to save his life... against AHLers. His success will be dependent on him being an elusive winger who finds soft spots on the ice to generate offense. 3rd-line winger type who needs sheltered minutes. Berggren vibes in terms of deployment. He also made some questionable decisions with the puck. I wn't draw conclusions from that because of the sample size, but he had a chance to score the go-ahead goal in the 3rd from the slot at one point but decided to pull up and opt for a low-probability shot instead.

Kasper - Highest ceiling of anyone in the game, comfortably. He was buzzing. He was banging, he was cycling, he was shooting. He's ever-present. As long as his game translates up to the NHL, and I don't see why it wouldn't, he should be a fan-favorite.

Thanks for your takes. I have a few questions:

1. Do you view Kasper as a 3rd line center in the NHL? That is my read based on how you describe him. Is he good in the faceoff dot? I cannot find AHL faceoff stats but haven't looked much beyond quanthockey, ahltracker or the official AHL stats site.

2. Amadeus has as many assists as Kasper in 1 fewer game. Does he seem more like a facilitator than a shooter in the AHL? Does he take faceoffs? I'd imagine based on your description of how little physicality he displays that he's probably not good on faceoffs, but again I can't find any data on faceoffs.

Thanks again for your notes, they are appreciated.

 

[jaster]

Thanks for your takes. I have a few questions:

1. Do you view Kasper as a 3rd line center in the NHL? That is my read based on how you describe him. Is he good in the faceoff dot? I cannot find AHL faceoff stats but haven't looked much beyond quanthockey, ahltracker or the official AHL stats site.

2. Amadeus has as many assists as Kasper in 1 fewer game. Does he seem more like a facilitator than a shooter in the AHL? Does he take faceoffs? I'd imagine based on your description of how little physicality he displays that he's probably not good on faceoffs, but again I can't find any data on faceoffs.

Thanks again for your notes, they are appreciated.

1. This is going to sound like a cop-out answer, given how we all normally talk about where a guy projects, but... maybe. Until a kid skates some NHL games, I usually lean into "range of outcomes" more than trying to pigeon-hole the player as one thing for sure. I think 3rd-line center is more likely than 2nd-line center. But do I think Kasper could become a 2nd-line center? Yes. The only question to me in terms of if he can be a 2nd-line center is how his offensive ability translates to the NHL. Will there be enough there to support such a role? That's the million-dollar question. And then there's the possibility of him converting to winger, which I'm not a big fan of, I think you're losing value there, but if it means he's in the top-6, gelling real well with someone like Danielson, then it could be worth it.

As for faceoffs, I definitely didn't track them the other night. I feel like he did fine there (until someone finds the numbers somewhere and is like hey jaster, ya dum dum, he was 3-11 in the dot!), but I don't have much to offer in terms of faceoff analysis in this case. And even if I did track it, one game won't tell us much about how good the guy is in that category. Even Bergeron had his off-nights.

2. He definitely seems more like a puck distributor than a shooter, yeah. In fact, he looked very good cycling on the PP. I know he potted like 45 in juniors, but he doesn't look like much of a goal scorer at the pro level.

He did take faceoffs as the #2/3 center (I couldn't quite tell which of his line and L'Esperance's were #2 and which was #3). Again, I didn't track them, not sure how good or bad he did. I failed on faceoffs this game, I'm sorry!

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Lombardi - I want to like this kid, I really do, but there are questions. His size/strength is a major concern, and I no longer hold the belief that he could be a center at the highest level. He gets pushed off of the puck so easily and can't win a board battle to save his life... against AHLers. His success will be dependent on him being an elusive winger who finds soft spots on the ice to generate offense. 3rd-line winger type who needs sheltered minutes. Berggren vibes in terms of deployment. He also made some questionable decisions with the puck. I wn't draw conclusions from that because of the sample size, but he had a chance to score the go-ahead goal in the 3rd from the slot at one point but decided to pull up and opt for a low-probability shot instead.

Lombardi is all of 20 years old. I think it is reasonable to give him some time to get stronger. This season has been a big success in my eyes for him as a D+2 player in the AHL. Now if you ever thought he projected as a center in the first place, that is entirely on you. Size still matters at that position if you don't have super high-end skill.

 

[jaster]

Lombardi is all of 20 years old. I think it is reasonable to give him some time to get stronger. This season has been a big success in my eyes for him as a D+2 player in the AHL. Now if you ever thought he projected as a center in the first place, that is entirely on you. Size still matters at that position if you don't have super high-end skill.

I've always had him pegged as a winger due to his size, but several people have said he could be a center, so I always allowed a window of possibility there. But after watching him on Saturday, I don't think that window is much bigger than a pinhole.

He can definitely get stronger, yeah. In fact, he should. And you're right, at 20 there is still a decent amount of runway there. But he's small even for his age group, so I'm not sure we'll ever see his board work and puck battling reach even average at the NHL level. I expect it to remain a deficiency.