Grade Our Trade Deadline

[PocketNines]

Solid A, I'd consider A+

Like Falco I don't think anything more could have been done with the defense. I think moving Parayko right now is a mistake, and there is no reason to rush that. A HUGE part of that rationale for me is that we need to know who we are drafting this draft (and on May 10 we'll know what pick we get) and so if the decision is made (which I don't agree with but I have to acknowledge is being explored on some level) to move Parayko I want it to come when we know more precisely what we want in return. Additionally, I haven't believed that Krug would be moved so I didn't invest any expectation in that. I'm glad the Blues didn't acquire Meier, Chychrun, Provorov which I was nervous he might. I said I would rather keep the picks and he did.

As for the trades themselves, I think he got the most value he was going to get for every player. Love getting two 2023 1sts, and I really like the Dean pickup. The cheap adds of Vrana, Kapanen and Blais was being a deadline buyer without giving up assets, getting a jump start on the summer.

What adds an extra bit of emphasis to the grade is that Armstrong set the timing for himself and forced the league to get all the big pieces moving early so that secondary decisions were what closed out the deadline. Had he just set a price and waited I'm not sure if it would have worked out so well. So it's the moves and the orchestration of them that make the grade A/A+

 

[Mike Liut]

We still need a 3C. Would it surprise you to see both our late 1sts moved for a 3C?


eller is a UFA. He’d be a decent option

 

[Shwabeal]

We still need a 3C. Would it surprise you to see both our late 1sts moved for a 3C?

If they’re spending two firsts for a center, it better be someone that pushes Schenn down to 3C. I don’t see many of those being available.

IF the late 1sts are moved, it better be some creative way to restructure the defense.

 

[PocketNines]

No way would I move those picks for a 3C. Those picks aren't as attractive as our own first pick but we know they can turn into huge home runs much more significant than a 3C, and moreover we just acquired Dean who should get a crack at taking the role rather than spending one of those picks to block him.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I agree that we need to wait to see what happens at the lotto before we decide to fully move in from Parayko. If we somehow by some miracle win a top 3 pick it will speed up the retool tremendously. And I don't feel like wasting 3 years of a generational/franchise level talent ELC

Trade Krug and Scandella if possible tho.

 

[Mike Liut]

If they’re spending two firsts for a center, it better be someone that pushes Schenn down to 3C. I don’t see many of those being available.

IF the late 1sts are moved, it better be some creative way to restructure the defense.

Im afraid we are stuck with our D

 

[Shwabeal]

Im afraid we are stuck with our D

I agree, that’s why I said creative. Army has to have a 4D chess move to get us out of this. And that should not involve moving Parayko. If this is going to be a “retool” it has to be Krug going.

Army has to find a way to move Krug and acquire a LHD that can play with Parayko or Faulk and let Berube run those pairs more balanced.

XXX/Leddy-Parayko
Leddy/XXX-Faulk
Scandella-Tucker/Perunovich/Rosen

The shitty part is, moving Krug is the harder part of the equation than finding XXX, which will be very difficult on its own.

 

[Mike Liut]

I agree, that’s why I said creative. Army has to have a 4D chess move to get us out of this. And that should not involve moving Parayko. If this is going to be a “retool” it has to be Krug going.

Army has to find a way to move Krug and acquire a LHD that can play with Parayko or Faulk and let Berube run those pairs more balanced.

XXX/Leddy-Parayko
Leddy/XXX-Faulk
Scandella-Tucker/Perunovich/Rosen

The shitty part is, moving Krug is the harder part of the equation than finding XXX, which will be very difficult on its own.

im down, it just won’t be easy. But Army does pull off some good shit sometimes.

 

[Falco Lombardi]

Solid A, I'd consider A+

Like Falco I don't think anything more could have been done with the defense. I think moving Parayko right now is a mistake, and there is no reason to rush that. A HUGE part of that rationale for me is that we need to know who we are drafting this draft (and on May 10 we'll know what pick we get) and so if the decision is made (which I don't agree with but I have to acknowledge is being explored on some level) to move Parayko I want it to come when we know more precisely what we want in return. Additionally, I haven't believed that Krug would be moved so I didn't invest any expectation in that. I'm glad the Blues didn't acquire Meier, Chychrun, Provorov which I was nervous he might. I said I would rather keep the picks and he did.

As for the trades themselves, I think he got the most value he was going to get for every player. Love getting two 2023 1sts, and I really like the Dean pickup. The cheap adds of Vrana, Kapanen and Blais was being a deadline buyer without giving up assets, getting a jump start on the summer.

What adds an extra bit of emphasis to the grade is that Armstrong set the timing for himself and forced the league to get all the big pieces moving early so that secondary decisions were what closed out the deadline. Had he just set a price and waited I'm not sure if it would have worked out so well. So it's the moves and the orchestration of them that make the grade A/A+

I think you’re dead on with that last piece. He set the timeframe and that’s why the Blues got two firsts. If he waits, they probably don’t get one for Tarasenko

 

[Brian39]

I think you are missing Horvat deal? Or did you put that in the "term" category because it was moved again before the deadline for a guy with term?

I didn't count it as a rental because the Islanders clearly made the move as a long term play and extended him before he played his first game as an Islander. Every hockey insider kept saying that 'Lou clearly knew that he could get an extension done when he made the deal' and that turned out to be 100% correct. From the Islanders perspective, that was very clearly never a rental. They extended him immediately and he'll be an Islander for the next 8 years.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Wanted A- as echoed a trade of Krug would’ve made it an A+.

Returns overall were very good.

Best thing out of this deadline aside from capitalizing on expiring contracts was we put ourselves in a position where we have some guys who can play in the top 6/9 and didn’t have to sign them in UFA for term.

Big fan of grabbing Kapanen and Vrana, don’t really care if they work out too much. Hope they do both have some serious speed which is welcomed and Vrána is a pretty high end goal scorer if he can come back correct after everything he’s dealing with. Just very glad in general we aren’t looking next off-season to fill holes in the Free Agent market. If I had to guess Doug will look for a trade for a young center with our later firsts and if not hopefully pick up a cheap vet on a very short term deal.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

I think you’re dead on with that last piece. He set the timeframe and that’s why the Blues got two firsts. If he waits, they probably don’t get one for Tarasenko

Given how the rest of the TDL played out, I firmly believe we’d have gotten the deal Chicago ended up with for Kane. So not only getting the extra guaranteed value(since Chicago could still get the 1st if NYR makes the ECF) but also denying value to Chicago makes me very happy as a fan.

 

[Xerloris]

We still need a 3C. Would it surprise you to see both our late 1sts moved for a 3C?


eller is a UFA. He’d be a decent option

Did Armstrong suddenly have a stroke before deciding to move 2 1sts for a 3rd liner?

 

[Frenzy31]

I gave Armstrong an A+. He completely manipulated the market from the beginning. He played it perfectly And got value for everyone. Even an equivalent first for Barb.

I like the wings he brought in on by low sell high.

To me, this off season is critical. Can we move in from Krug? My guess is Scandella may be movable in the summer due to his UFA status at the end of the season next year. Which should free up cap space for another center.

With the cap the way it is, short term players on expiring deals may have some value.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

I agree with the assessment of moving and manipulating the market, getting valuable picks in a deep draft, and getting low risk/high reward talent. I would have hoped for moving one contract on defense in the 5,6,7,8 spot or Griess for a pick or a puck. I would like to have another contract slot open as well. For that an A-.

Liked to get Leo Loof and Simon Robertsson signed (though we have some time) and make a move or two in the college/junior free agent market. If I am a free agent defenseman in my early 20s, then I see a huge logjam in St. Louis and may not get much of a chance due to contracts.

 

[Mike Liut]

Did Armstrong suddenly have a stroke before deciding to move 2 1sts for a 3rd liner?

It can be for a 2c or only trade one of the 1sts. I just meant don’t be surprised if he addresses the need by trading picks. Army doesn’t rebuild, he retools.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Full credit to Armstrong for pulling off the bandaid in one rip. He gave the Cup core the best chance he could to take another swing at it. Had Binnington not been injured vs Colorado, I could see a scenario where the Blues get up in that series and the specter of another 2nd round loss gets the Avs tight. Anyway, I think there was a realistic chance the Blues could have won that series even if Colorado was the superior team. I think Armstrong gave that group a chance to get back to the SCF.

Im glad the end of that era is so clearly delineated in his mind. He might have chosen to trade for Chychrun instead, paying a price in futures that the Blues would be unwise to pay, and move one of the big D contracts with sweeteners. But it would have been the same aging group (minus Tarasenko) that ran it back. He’s rejected that vision and moved as much dead wood as possible. If the market can support it, I expect him to move defensive pieces this off-season. But if not then, the Cap supports filing out this roster and moving forward with a much better prospect pool which should crescendo into a contender again. Bad defensive contracts get easier to deal with as the term gets shorter. There are still teams willing to use Weber’s contract as an asset.

 

[Novacain]

Personally, my thoughts are I can’t go higher then a B without him making some sort of move in on the defense. I know that’s been labeled as an off-season move, but I think it’s less likely you will get a team to bite on any of our top 4 in the off-season. Hopefully I’m proven wrong on that one.

As for the forward moves, I have nothing negative to say, I’m just not glowing on any return except maybe the Barbashev one. Tarasenko and O’Reilly/Accari got what we needed to get, and if we got less I’d have been frustrated. I like the Vrana move well enough though I do share the concern about our team continuing to move further and further away from a 2 way game. I assume the hope is both he and Kap can rebound for solid seasons with legitimate playing time and be dealt next year, which I’m mostly fine with, but it’s too early to tell if that plan is wise.

Basically, my main worries with Armstrong have been his and the teams inability to scout NHL defensemen, and his tendency to hedge his bets on our teams direction in the past few years. It feels like he is certainly accepting it might be a couple years till we are good again, which I appreciate his candor and honesty, but I still don’t see any answers to figuring out our defensive situations, both internally or externally.

 

[Bluesguru]

A

Army did a great job.

Now if Army really tried to acquire Chychrun, then I drop this down to a B just because that would of been an awful move.

 

[PocketNines]

Basically, my main worries with Armstrong have been his and the teams inability to scout NHL defensemen, and his tendency to hedge his bets on our teams direction in the past few years. It feels like he is certainly accepting it might be a couple years till we are good again, which I appreciate his candor and honesty, but I still don’t see any answers to figuring out our defensive situations, both internally or externally.

I gave Armstrong a high grade because for what he could have realistically done at the deadline but I totally understand this paragraph and it's an important paragraph and a real worry. It's still a critical summer.

 

[stl76]

5 questions with Doug Armstrong | St. Louis Blues

Blues GM talks roster refresh, trading key pieces, free agency and more

www.nhl.com

 

[STL fan in MN]

Personally, my thoughts are I can’t go higher then a B without him making some sort of move in on the defense. I know that’s been labeled as an off-season move, but I think it’s less likely you will get a team to bite on any of our top 4 in the off-season. Hopefully I’m proven wrong on that one.

As for the forward moves, I have nothing negative to say, I’m just not glowing on any return except maybe the Barbashev one. Tarasenko and O’Reilly/Accari got what we needed to get, and if we got less I’d have been frustrated. I like the Vrana move well enough though I do share the concern about our team continuing to move further and further away from a 2 way game. I assume the hope is both he and Kap can rebound for solid seasons with legitimate playing time and be dealt next year, which I’m mostly fine with, but it’s too early to tell if that plan is wise.

Basically, my main worries with Armstrong have been his and the teams inability to scout NHL defensemen, and his tendency to hedge his bets on our teams direction in the past few years. It feels like he is certainly accepting it might be a couple years till we are good again, which I appreciate his candor and honesty, but I still don’t see any answers to figuring out our defensive situations, both internally or externally.

I’d say this is a fair assessment of the entire situation, taking into account the past few years. But a little unfair when evaluating just this trade deadline, which is the subject of this poll.

In the grand scheme of things though, our grades are meaningless so I don’t really care too much, lol.

So agree with the concerns going forward but I don’t think it’s too fair to expect Army to have been able to do much with the defense issue at the trade deadline. Teams looking to buy at the deadline are typically looking for expiring contracts and most buyers are already pressed up against the Cap so adding a $6.5M d-man isn’t exactly easy. Teams will have more cap flexibility over the summer so Army should have more potential trade partners then than he had this week.

 

[Novacain]

I’d say this is a fair assessment of the entire situation, taking into account the past few years. But a little unfair when evaluating just this trade deadline, which is the subject of this poll.

In the grand scheme of things though, our grades are meaningless so I don’t really care too much, lol.

So agree with the concerns going forward but I don’t think it’s too fair to expect Army to have been able to do much with the defense issue at the trade deadline. Teams looking to buy at the deadline are typically looking for expiring contracts and most buyers are already pressed up against the Cap so adding a $6.5M d-man isn’t exactly easy. Teams will have more cap flexibility over the summer so Army should have more potential trade partners then than he had this week.

I’d argue that teams are going to be less likely to take on a horrid contract like Krug when there isn’t an immediate playoff push to consider. With the problems we are staring in the face as a league with Bali about to go belly up and the deaths of regional sports networks, I think there is a strong chance cap issues are going to become a much longer term thing they previously expected. I doubt we are gonna get many big breaks this off-season on our undesirable contracts.

But, as for just this trade deadline, my thoughts generally are.

Tarasenko trade: Meh. Low 1st was the minimum I wanted here, and it’s exactly what we got. The protections on it make me view it as a solid but unremarkable return.

O’Reilly/Accari trade: I like the return fine, but once more, it’s more along the minimum of what I’d be hoping for. I thought Accari was a really good asset and just getting to what is a 2nd for him is pretty bland.

Barbashev trade: the deal I like best because I view Dean as more then just a lottery ticket. I value him more then the 1sts we got from the Tarasenko or O’Reilly trade honestly.

Kap waiver pickup: I barely factor this in. I’m not a massive fan of using up cap space which I think could have been weaponized this off-season. He’s played well so far, but players having a good stretch after being picked up on waivers before leveling off is pretty common.

Vrana trade: I like this on value and cap hit, but the questions around Vrana are very legitimate and need to be factored in when evaluating. It’s a high ceiling trade with what most consider a minimal risk, but once more that 5 mill in cap space between him and Kap could have gotten something legit this off-season.

People taking about a B like it means I hated it. It was an above average deadline. If I didn’t like it overall I’d have gone with a C or D.

 

[PocketNines]

I’d argue that teams are going to be less likely to take on a horrid contract like Krug when there isn’t an immediate playoff push to consider. With the problems we are staring in the face as a league with Bali about to go belly up and the deaths of regional sports networks, I think there is a strong chance cap issues are going to become a much longer term thing they previously expected. I doubt we are gonna get many big breaks this off-season on our undesirable contracts.

But, as for just this trade deadline, my thoughts generally are.

Tarasenko trade: Meh. Low 1st was the minimum I wanted here, and it’s exactly what we got. The protections on it make me view it as a solid but unremarkable return.

O’Reilly/Accari trade: I like the return fine, but once more, it’s more along the minimum of what I’d be hoping for. I thought Accari was a really good asset and just getting to what is a 2nd for him is pretty bland.

Barbashev trade: the deal I like best because I view Dean as more then just a lottery ticket. I value him more then the 1sts we got from the Tarasenko or O’Reilly trade honestly.

Kap waiver pickup: I barely factor this in. I’m not a massive fan of using up cap space which I think could have been weaponized this off-season. He’s played well so far, but players having a good stretch after being picked up on waivers before leveling off is pretty common.

Vrana trade: I like this on value and cap hit, but the questions around Vrana are very legitimate and need to be factored in when evaluating. It’s a high ceiling trade with what most consider a minimal risk, but once more that 5 mill in cap space between him and Kap could have gotten something legit this off-season.

People taking about a B like it means I hated it. It was an above average deadline. If I didn’t like it overall I’d have gone with a C or D.

Tarasenko got a 1st + 3d ... that's the best he was going to get with his limited destinations

ROR got a 1st + 2d + B prospect (Abramov) ... that's pretty good. What were you expecting for rental ROR, two 1sts?

Acciari got a 3d which is about the going rate

Barbashev got a late 2021 1st who will be in his D+3 next year ... also better than the rumored two 2ds

Mikkola got Blais and a D prospect (Skinner). Glut at bottom pairing LD for a needed bottom 6er.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I’d argue that teams are going to be less likely to take on a horrid contract like Krug when there isn’t an immediate playoff push to consider. With the problems we are staring in the face as a league with Bali about to go belly up and the deaths of regional sports networks, I think there is a strong chance cap issues are going to become a much longer term thing they previously expected. I doubt we are gonna get many big breaks this off-season on our undesirable contracts.

But, as for just this trade deadline, my thoughts generally are.

Tarasenko trade: Meh. Low 1st was the minimum I wanted here, and it’s exactly what we got. The protections on it make me view it as a solid but unremarkable return.

O’Reilly/Accari trade: I like the return fine, but once more, it’s more along the minimum of what I’d be hoping for. I thought Accari was a really good asset and just getting to what is a 2nd for him is pretty bland.

Barbashev trade: the deal I like best because I view Dean as more then just a lottery ticket. I value him more then the 1sts we got from the Tarasenko or O’Reilly trade honestly.

Kap waiver pickup: I barely factor this in. I’m not a massive fan of using up cap space which I think could have been weaponized this off-season. He’s played well so far, but players having a good stretch after being picked up on waivers before leveling off is pretty common.

Vrana trade: I like this on value and cap hit, but the questions around Vrana are very legitimate and need to be factored in when evaluating. It’s a high ceiling trade with what most consider a minimal risk, but once more that 5 mill in cap space between him and Kap could have gotten something legit this off-season.

People taking about a B like it means I hated it. It was an above average deadline. If I didn’t like it overall I’d have gone with a C or D.

P9s basically said what I was going to say on the trades but I’ll add one thing. An additional reason why I commend Army on a job well done is that he got out ahead of the market. There aren’t a lot of teams that would be in the market for a left shot RW so I think it was very shrewd of him to jump the market and get Tarasenko to NY before Kane made up his mind on if he would waive his NMC. So not just the actual returns but the way he viewed the market and manipulated it was very good IMO.

And we’ll just have to disagree on the trade deadline being a better time to sell Krug. I hear you about the potential revenue impact of the Bally’s bankruptcy but it’s simply easier to move players when there are more teams that have cap flexibility…and that’s in the summer. But make no mistake, moving Krug is going to be a mountain of a task regardless of timing. I don’t know how Army’s going to do it frankly. Basically, we need another GM to be an absolute moron.