Goons with spike seasons, and how they happened.

[sr edler]

Gino Odjick

1993-94: This was obviously Bure. 9 of his 16 goals assisted by Bure, 7 of his 13 assists also involved Bure. And of course it's a well known story that they played together and were good friends. I'm always wary of stories like these when they involve players who should have a massive disparity in their roles - Bure couldn't have been playing all or even a big chunk of his time with Odjick, could he? But in this case it seems more true than usual, at least for a period of time. Odjick is also the most frequent scorer on Bure's assists this year, and Odjick's other frequent collaborators are real hockey players - guys like Ronning and Adams. Lastly almost all of Odjick's scoring is crammed into the first half of the year, which tells me that 1) a decision was made to quit using this arrangement so much and 2) Odjick was on a 30-15-45 pace by January 12th, which he'd absolutely have to be getting real time with skilled linedmates to pull off.

I remember being told by someone on this board that this never happened. But yeah, Odjick was a regular roster player in the RS, but then also only played in 10 (of 24) playoff games. Pat Quinn ran a hybrid goon-line for the playoffs with Tim Hunter and Shawn Antoski centred by John McIntyre, it's possible he (Odjick) just got out-duelled by Hunter's experience.

Yeah, that's on me for deviating from the definition of goon I used in the original post (because if you don't define it, it just becomes "tough guy who you don't like"). Still interesting that both he and Kypreos scored an uncharacteristically large amount that season (while getting in at least a dozen fights, along with the other things he usually did).

Kypreos was a fairly prolific junior scorer, scored 111 goals in 110 games over his last two OHL seasons. If the NHL had had 32 teams back then, who knows perhaps he could have come up on a second or even first line somewhere and tailgated on a strong playmaker.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah, because of the era back then, some of these guys (Kypreos, Domi) I think basically "chose" to be goons. That is, they could play and might have made a bad NHL team's roster anyway as a fourth liner, but I think they realized at some point that their path to a regular NHL career was by being an enforcer.

 

[GMR]

Dave Brown scored 45 goals in his career but 22 of them came in two different seasons. He played like 13 years total. I always thought that was strange.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Dave Brown scored 45 goals in his career but 22 of them came in two different seasons. He played like 13 years total. I always thought that was strange.

Took a quick look at this one, and 1986 has all sorts of Brian Propp and Dave Poulin in his scoring logs. This isn't an Odjick situation because his production is scattered throughout the season rather than one temporary spin with the first lines, but I'd be curious if Keenan was leaning away from a regular 4th line, and instead getting a rotation of role players out there with ringers.
1988 he scored most of his points in January and February, but with more grindy collaborators. He shot 29% on the season. Just a hot streak.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I remember being told by someone on this board that this never happened. But yeah, Odjick was a regular roster player in the RS, but then also only played in 10 (of 24) playoff games. Pat Quinn ran a hybrid goon-line for the playoffs with Tim Hunter and Shawn Antoski centred by John McIntyre, it's possible he (Odjick) just got out-duelled by Hunter's experience.

I thought it might be interesting to break down Bure's scoring collaborators before and after January 12:

October 6-January 12 | 34GP 20G 22A 42P

Even Strength: | 12G 13A 25P
Odjick 7, Adams 5, Courtnall 5, Ronning 5, Craven 4, Carson 1
Power Play | 7G 8A 15P
Adams 4, Ronning 3, Odjick 2, Craven 2, Courtnall 1, Linden 1
Shorthanded: | 1G 1A 2P
Adams 2, Lumme 2

January 14-April 13 | 42GP 40G 25A 65P

Even Strength: | 19G 14A 33P
Craven 14, Gelinas 6, Odjick 6, Courtnall 5, Adams 4, Ronning 2, Carson 1
Power Play | 18G 10A 28P
Courtnall 9, Ronning 9, Carson 7, Craven 3, Gelinas 3, Linden 3, Adams 1
Shorthanded: | 3G 1A 4P
Craven 3, Diduck 2, Lumme 1

 

[MS]

I thought it might be interesting to break down Bure's scoring collaborators before and after January 12:

October 6-January 12 | 34GP 20G 22A 42P

Even Strength: | 12G 13A 25P
Odjick 7, Adams 5, Courtnall 5, Craven 4
Power Play | 7G 8A 15P
Adams 4, Odjick 2, Craven 2 Courtnall 1
Shorthanded: | 1G 1A 2P
Adams 2, Lumme 2

January 14-April 13 | 42GP 40G 25A 65P

Even Strength: | 19G 14A 33P
Craven 14, Odjick 6, Courtnall 5, Adams 4
Power Play | 18G 10A 28P
Courtnall 9, Craven 3, Adams 1
Shorthanded: | 3G 1A 4P
Craven 3, Diduck 2, Lumme 1

(Sorry, hit enter early, wait til I finish this - took longer than I expected and I'll want to add at least Ronning, Gelinas and Linden to this, but I have to run out before I finish editing. be back soon )

I've talked about this a bunch before on the Canucks board.

Bure and Odjick were BFFs and said they wanted to play together to start that season. And they did play together for most of the first half of the season as the team obliged the whims of their star player in a contract year. And it worked out great for Gino who was on pace for ~30 goals at the mid-point of the season.

But it worked out terribly for Bure who was basically spending his shifts trying to be a playmaker for a 4th liner, and he had the worst half-season of his pre-knee injury career.

Once Quinn finally broke them up, Odjick went back to being a 10-point 4th liner and Bure went absolutely supernova.

If Bure played with quality linemates that whole year he probably scores 70 or 80 goals.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I've talked about this a bunch before on the Canucks board.

Bure and Odjick were BFFs and said they wanted to play together to start that season. And they did play together for most of the first half of the season as the team obliged the whims of their star player in a contract year. And it worked out great for Gino who was on pace for ~30 goals at the mid-point of the season.

But it worked out terribly for Bure who was basically spending his shifts trying to be a playmaker for a 4th liner, and he had the worst half-season of his pre-knee injury career.

Once Quinn finally broke them up, Odjick went back to being a 10-point 4th liner and Bure went absolutely supernova.

If Bure played with quality linemates that whole year he probably scores 70 or 80 goals.

That's basically born out in all the stats posted above (I edited to add Ronning, Gelinas, Carson and Linden ), which shows that not only was Odjick quite dependent on Bure that year, but also that a big portion of Bure's pucks were ending up on Odjick's stick too, for the first 34 games anyway. There are still a few Odjick points scattered throughout February and March, but he's a much smaller piece of the pie.

I used January 12th as the cutoff because that was the last of Odjick's torrid scoring pace, but there's 3 games after that where Bure only had 2 power play points, both going through defensemen. Then on the 24th in Edmonton he has a 4-point game and the even strength points are going through Courtnall and Gelinas, so I'd say it's pretty likely that's where the decision happened.

I only wish I had ice time to look at. I'm both relatively certain that Odjick would have come way down, but also skeptical that their usage would have lined up that much. I'm reminded of the weird lines Sheldon Keefe started 2020-21 with, where they had a 41-year old Thornton (a better player than Gino, but still slow as dirt and good at exactly one thing) with Matthews and Marner, and a checking line of Hyman - Kerfoot - Mikheyev, but then by the end of every game Hyman has played 20 minutes, and Thornton only 15 because if anything important is happening, you definitely want Hyman-Matthews-Marner out there (unless it's the playoffs in which case they can all jump into the sea). I'd be curious to know how much Quinn could truly have been stretching Odjick.

 

[MS]

That's basically born out in all the stats posted above (I edited to add Ronning, Gelinas, Carson and Linden ), which shows that not only was Odjick quite dependent on Bure that year, but also that a big portion of Bure's pucks were ending up on Odjick's stick too, for the first 34 games anyway. There are still a few Odjick points scattered throughout February and March, but he's a much smaller piece of the pie.

I used January 12th as the cutoff because that was the last of Odjick's torrid scoring pace, but there's 3 games after that where Bure only had 2 power play points, both going through defensemen. Then on the 24th in Edmonton he has a 4-point game and the even strength points are going through Courtnall and Gelinas, so I'd say it's pretty likely that's where the decision happened.

I only wish I had ice time to look at. I'm both relatively certain that Odjick would have come way down, but also skeptical that their usage would have lined up that much. I'm reminded of the weird lines Sheldon Keefe started 2020-21 with, where they had a 41-year old Thornton (a better player than Gino, but still slow as dirt and good at exactly one thing) with Matthews and Marner, and a checking line of Hyman - Kerfoot - Mikheyev, but then by the end of every game Hyman has played 20 minutes, and Thornton only 15 because if anything important is happening, you definitely want Hyman-Matthews-Marner out there (unless it's the playoffs in which case they can all jump into the sea). I'd be curious to know how much Quinn could truly have been stretching Odjick.

I remember that season very well and Bure and Odjick were pretty much always on the same line for the first half of the season. There were times where Bure would get double-shifted or they'd bump someone else up when trailing in the 3rd (or protecting a lead in the 3rd) but generally they were playing together. And obviously Bure played PP/PK and Odjick did not.

The two players basically requested it and they were indulged until it became obvious how badly it was affecting Bure's play and production.

I'd guess Odjick was at about 13:00/game through the first half of that season before going back to his usual 5-8 minutes in the second half.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I remember that season very well and Bure and Odjick were pretty much always on the same line for the first half of the season. There were times where Bure would get double-shifted or they'd bump someone else up when trailing in the 3rd (or protecting a lead in the 3rd) but generally they were playing together. And obviously Bure played PP/PK and Odjick did not.

The two players basically requested it and they were indulged until it became obvious how badly it was affecting Bure's play and production.

I'd guess Odjick was at about 13:00/game through the first half of that season before going back to his usual 5-8 minutes in the second half.

That's about what I'd expect.