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GDT: Gold Medal Game: Canada Vs Russia | 1:00PM EST 7PM CET

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Bear12Good said:
99.9% Russians hockey players dont use doping
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This seems like an unfounded statement given recent history. However it's asinine not to give this U20 team the benefit of the doubt.

Fantomas said:
It's not the hockey players' fault that some lugers cheated.
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Not going to pretend I know more about this than a lazy Google search, but seems like there's more to it than that?

https://www.si.com/nhl/2016/04/06/russian-u18-hockey-team-replaced-after-doping-scandal

Olympics: Six Russian ice hockey players banned for doping - Vanguard News
 
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Meldonium is an over-the-counter, non-prescription drug that is commonly used throughout Eastern Europe to enhance breathing in cold countries where asthma is prevalent. To be honest, Russians were stunned to learn that it was a banned substance. There is no known medical benefit from Meldonium that enhances athletic performance in the same way that steroids and EPO do. Last I heard, WADA was considering removing it from the banned list.

There is no concerted effort by the NHL or CHL to frequently (game by game) test hockey players for steroids, which is really the only thing of potential benefit in the sport. So there is no way to know how doped up the Canadian team may have been.
 
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blindpass said:
This seems like an unfounded statement given recent history. However it's asinine not to give this U20 team the benefit of the doubt.



Not going to pretend I know more about this than a lazy Google search, but seems like there's more to it than that?

https://www.si.com/nhl/2016/04/06/russian-u18-hockey-team-replaced-after-doping-scandal

Olympics: Six Russian ice hockey players banned for doping - Vanguard News
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Meldonium is an over the counter, non-prescription drug that is prevalent throughout Eastern Europe in cold countries where asthma is prevalent. It supposedly clears up breathing and makes the heart work better, but its claims are considered exaggerated, like many over the counter treatments. It has no known medical properties that enhance sport performance, the way steroids and EPO do, and, to be honest, the Russian team was stunned to learn that it was listed as a banned substance. My understanding is that WADA has considered removing it from the banned list.

On the other hand, there are no rigid controls in the NHL and CHL to monitor the potential use of steroids or other PEDs. There is no game-by-game testing to prove athletes are clean every time they step on the ice. Given how easy it is to mask many substances, we don't know how doped up the Canadian U20 team was throughout the tournament.
 
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Yakushev72 said:
Meldonium is an over-the-counter, non-prescription drug that is commonly used throughout Eastern Europe to enhance breathing in cold countries where asthma is prevalent. To be honest, Russians were stunned to learn that it was a banned substance. There is no known medical benefit from Meldonium that enhances athletic performance in the same way that steroids and EPO do. Last I heard, WADA was considering removing it from the banned list.

There is no concerted effort by the NHL or CHL to frequently (game by game) test hockey players for steroids, which is really the only thing of potential benefit in the sport. So there is no way to know how doped up the Canadian team may have been.
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Meldonium (Mildronate): Definition and uses in sports
I'm not pretending to have any expertise here, but your claims seem dubious.

Was the U18 team all being treated for asthma? Angina? All of the things the drug is used for are unlikely to be beneficial to young athletes... except performance enhancement.

Other countries presumably passed the tests that the Russian athletes failed, so your aspersions are petty.
 
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blindpass said:
Meldonium (Mildronate): Definition and uses in sports
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The only PED's that increase hematocrit are EPO, HGH, and blood transfusions. The article talks about "common uses" of Meldonium by non-athletes, but offers no evidence that it increases hematocrit in the blood. It is believed by local people, but not proven, that it dilates the blood vessels to relieve angina, which has absolutely no relevance to 18-year old highly trained athletes. It allegedly makes pigs horny enough to get off of their enormous carcasses to screw sows, but pigs screwing sows is prohibited on the ice at IIHF-sanctioned tournaments. As I said, WADA is considering taking it off the list because its benefits would be so minimal as to make banning an athlete unjust.
 
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Yakushev72 said:
The only PED's that increase hematocrit are EPO, HGH, and blood transfusions. The article talks about "common uses" of Meldonium by non-athletes, but offers no evidence that it increases hematocrit in the blood. It is believed by local people, but not proven, that it dilates the blood vessels to relieve angina, which has absolutely no relevance to 18-year old highly trained athletes. It allegedly makes pigs horny enough to get off of their enormous carcasses to screw sows, but pigs screwing sows is prohibited on the ice at IIHF-sanctioned tournaments. As I said, WADA is considering taking it off the list because its benefits would be so minimal as to make banning an athlete unjust.
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A lot of noise and rhetoric here, what do pigs have to do with anything? I get that you are feeling defensive but let's slow down.

What reason do you think more than half the U18 team was taking it? What medical reason?
 
blindpass said:
A lot of noise and rhetoric here, what do pigs have to do with anything? I get that you are feeling defensive but let's slow down.

What reason do you think more than half the U18 team was taking it? What medical reason?
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Same reason so many athletes take various drugs approved by our 'experts' or is a doctor's recommendation invalid if it's a Russian in your opinion?

Let's face it, to your type of non-thinker, all Russians cheat.

Canadian athletes are as pure as the driven snow on and off the ice right?
 
Yakushev72 said:
The only PED's that increase hematocrit are EPO, HGH, and blood transfusions. The article talks about "common uses" of Meldonium by non-athletes, but offers no evidence that it increases hematocrit in the blood. It is believed by local people, but not proven, that it dilates the blood vessels to relieve angina, which has absolutely no relevance to 18-year old highly trained athletes. It allegedly makes pigs horny enough to get off of their enormous carcasses to screw sows, but pigs screwing sows is prohibited on the ice at IIHF-sanctioned tournaments. As I said, WADA is considering taking it off the list because its benefits would be so minimal as to make banning an athlete unjust.
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Doping in Russia - Wikipedia

It seems there's a long history of state sponsored doping in Russia. It'd be easier to take your argument seriously if you expressed some amount of contrition about that. Instead you look like you are just dutifully manning the battlements
 
wacko2 said:
Same reason so many athletes take various drugs approved by our 'experts' or is a doctor's recommendation invalid if it's a Russian in your opinion?

Let's face it, to your type of non-thinker, all Russians cheat.

Canadian athletes are as pure as the driven snow on and off the ice right?
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Not that the Russian guy pretending to be a Canadian deserves a response (ironic that you think I'm the one pushing the case that Russians cheat), but to clarify for others:

I said above that it is asinine not to give this U20 Russian team the benefit of the doubt, so I'm not out to vilify Russians. I'm challenging the revisionist (recent) history we are being sold here ("it was just lugers", "they took Meldonium for their asthma, angina, etc").
 
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wacko2 said:
Same reason so many athletes take various drugs approved by our 'experts' or is a doctor's recommendation invalid if it's a Russian in your opinion?

Let's face it, to your type of non-thinker, all Russians cheat.

Canadian athletes are as pure as the driven snow on and off the ice right?
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Lol the country was banned from the olympics and youre defending the u18 team where a good chunk of players were banned for taking banned substances as well. You would think with all the troule theyre in for doping they would check the banned list... where theres smoke theres fire. You expect people to believe that it was an innocent mistake given the history and apparent lack of medicals for taking the drug?

Canadian athletes arent pure as snow, but talk to me when you see Canada get banned from the olympics lol. The difference between the 2 countries is night and day
 
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Jussi said:
Who cares? We're the reigning World Campions on men's level too AND WE DIDN'T NEED A SINGLE NHL PLAYER TO BEAT CANADA.
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Finland has never won a best vs best tournament in its history, its highest achievement at the mens level to this day remains the 2006 Olympic Silver in Torino.

If you want to pretend that winning the annual IIHF Skoda Cup is the determining factor of which country is the best at the mens level go right ahead :laugh: for anyone who actually wants to have a legitimate educated hockey discussion will tell you Finland is far from the best at the mens level atm.
 
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XeroKaos said:
Finland has never won a best vs best tournament in its history, its highest achievement at the mens level to this day remains the 2006 Olympic Silver in Torino.

If you want to pretend that winning the annual IIHF Skoda Cup is the determining factor of which country is the best at the mens level go right ahead :laugh: for anyone who actually wants to have a legitimate educated hockey discussion will tell you Finland is far from the best at the mens level atm.
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It's all about what have you done for me lately and with the absence of proper best-on-best tournament, The Worlds are the best we got and you're just going to have to accept it! And the point still stand, Team Canada=all NHL players. Team Finland=0 NHL players. Final score: 3-1 Finland.
 
Jussi said:
It's all about what have you done for me lately and with the absence of proper best-on-best tournament, The Worlds are the best we got and you're just going to have to accept it! And the point still stand, Team Canada=all NHL players. Team Finland=0 NHL players. Final score: 3-1 Finland.
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Canada has won the Skoda's 26 times, including back to back in 2015, 2016. If it makes you proud seeing Finland beat Canada's C level team congratulations, not much else I can say about that :laugh:
 
As expected, the title game GDT devolves into delightful conversation:

"We're the best, hockey is our game"
"It's an u20 tournament, big deal"
"We are historically better than you"
"We beat you with our C team"
"The World Championships don't count"
"Your country is full of doping cheats"


Well done fellas.
 
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