Goal Line Technology in NHL

[nturn06]

Honestly how accurate/precise do you think this tool is?

It can measure the actual possition of the puck to within 1 mm (+/- 2 m).

 

[Canadienna]

It can measure the actual possition of the puck to within 1 mm (+/- 2 m).

Im assuming that +/- 2m is a typo? Did you mean mm?

If the error is 2 mm, then how can you say it measures the position of the puck to 1mm?

Any source for this claim? Not being a dick but I'd like to read more about it.

 

[nturn06]

Im assuming that +/- 2m is a typo? Did you mean mm?

If the error is 2 mm, then how can you say it measures the position of the puck to 1mm?

Any source for this claim? Not being a dick but I'd like to read more about it.

Joke/sarcasm

The reality is that given the puck velocity, and the fact that it is not a ball, the error of puck tracking technology is likely worse than the current eye test.

And, I think that relying on it would open a new can of worms: what if it is clear that the puck did not cross the line, but the puck tracking technology says it is a goal?

 

[Golden_Jet]

It can measure the actual possition of the puck to within 1 mm (+/- 2 m).

Puck would need a gyroscope in it, to figure out the axis of the puck.

 

[dabeechman]

If it’s so easy, then design an economical system and sell it to the league.

If they contracted me to design it, I would.

If the NHL had even the slightest desire in implementing this technology, it would have already been developed, which tells me that they have no interest in it. As a result, I have no interest in developing a technology that has little to no marketability.

I do have my own businesses though that do very well for themselves, so don't cry for me.

 

[Fatass]

Watching refs taking 7 minutes to decide if its a good goal or not by Perfetti, if soccer can implement goal line technology why NHL do not have this technology yet, since we already have puck tracking technology its baffling they are unable to say if a puck cross the line completely, its 2025 and refs watching an ipad trying to toss a coin if puck is in or not is hilarious and so outdated, this is what happens when league is run by dinosaurs lol

What do you suggest could be used to determine all of the puck completely crossed the goal line? Puck sensors are inside the puck, so that’s not providing a 100% accurate account of where exactly the edges of the puck is.

 

[dabeechman]

What do you suggest could be used to determine all of the puck completely crossed the goal line? Puck sensors are inside the puck, so that’s not providing a 100% accurate account of where exactly the edges of the puck is.

Width and height of the puck is already known, all you would need to know is angle. Sensors do not need to be wired or electrically embedded sensors, so they can be placed on the very leading edge around the perimeter of the puck without concern of a failure due to impact. Then it is just a matter of generating an algorithm to determine position relative to angle of the puck and compare spatially to the interior boundary of the goal line, or if used for high sticks, set a pre-determined height (or heights since we have shoulder height for high sticks, and cross bar for deflections), etc.

It's more complicated than that, but it isn't difficult to create a relatively accurate 3 dimensional model of the puck in space as long as you have a few key variables. We don't need visible markers to do this, and this can be proven by the fact that Hollywood no longer requires optical technology for their motion capture.

The biggest challenge I would see is not disrupting the feel and game behavior of the puck. The players have such an acute feel for how the puck provides feedback off their blade, the boards, and even deflections. It would have a profound effect on the game if those attributes aren't preserved.

 

[nturn06]

Width and height of the puck is already known, all you would need to know is angle. Sensors do not need to be wired or electrically embedded sensors, so they can be placed on the very leading edge around the perimeter of the puck without concern of a failure due to impact. Then it is just a matter of generating an algorithm to determine position relative to angle of the puck and compare spatially to the interior boundary of the goal line, or if used for high sticks, set a pre-determined height (or heights since we have shoulder height for high sticks, and cross bar for deflections), etc.

It's more complicated than that, but it isn't difficult to create a relatively accurate 3 dimensional model of the puck in space as long as you have a few key variables. We don't need visible markers to do this, and this can be proven by the fact that Hollywood no longer requires optical technology for their motion capture.

The biggest challenge I would see is not disrupting the feel and game behavior of the puck. The players have such an acute feel for how the puck provides feedback off their blade, the boards, and even deflections. It would have a profound effect on the game if those attributes aren't preserved.

The key word is "relatively accurate", the issue is that the error will probably not be small.

As a side note, if you place sensors on the edge of the puck, they will get crushed at the first slapshot or first time the puck hits the net. Not only that, but from time to time a senzor may get loose and enter the net, while the puck is out.

 

[dabeechman]

The key word is "relatively accurate", the issue is that the error will probably not be small.

As a side note, if you place sensors on the edge of the puck, they will get crushed at the first slapshot or first time the puck hits the net. Not only that, but from time to time a senzor may get loose and enter the net, while the puck is out.

I'm sure you're an expert. So I'll heed to your immense knowledge in all things electrical in nature.

What senzor's would you suggest we use?

 

[Mattb124]

Right, the issue isn’t the lack of cameras in hockey, it’s the plethora of obstructions. My point about the cameras in soccer is that it isn’t like a chip system or whatever.

That still doesn’t make pucks spherical.

 

[NVious]

I don't think it's as big of an issue as people are making it out to be.

I can see how the puck could be totally across the line on the Perfetti goal and I can also see how some small miniscule part could still in theory be on the line.

Sure get it perfect if you can, but it's not that much of a big deal for me anyways.

 

[wgknestrick]

Anytime I hear someone make up some "new" technology, I always think of this:

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

That was fun when I played it for fun in the early 2000's university student. At least in the 80's, 90's and up to early 2000's that was the equivalent of NA Beer League hockey in Finland. No contact sport, so it was cheaper because all you needed was skates, stick and helmet to play, and maybe something else just in case. In the 80's and 90's it was also a really popular winter sport in so-colled company sunday leagues, meaning most local companies even in smaller towns had at least 6-7 guys who could skate and ice a team, just for fun and exercise. Did I compare it to beer league hockey already?

At its peak in the 90's Finland had structured system of a 3 tier national league system, maybe some teams in the top league were semi-pro and rest was fully amateur.

Not sure about the history, but I'd guess it originated as a mixture of bandy and ice hockey, looking a lot like bandy played in the rink instead of soccer field.

Sweet! Just wanted to add I played in a roller hockey league with a ball- absolute blast. You could do lil tricks and lift it so easily, helped with your hands as well as it was light and slid off your stick like nothin. I still remember taking a slap shot from the far blue line and watching it just curveball away from the corner (where the goalie was going) and into the net. Completely unintentional, one you can only score with a ball.

 

[nturn06]

I'm sure you're an expert. So I'll heed to your immense knowledge in all things electrical in nature.

What senzor's would you suggest we use?

If there is something which always annoys me, is when people make fun of other people English. This is an argument I had few times in the past with other people.

OK, I'll admit, your mother language is better than my second language, do you think that this makes me an idiot? If not, why would you bring this up?

BTW, not that it matters, but senzor is actually the spelling in my native language.

 

[Anglesmith]

Interesting. Asking like a non technical middle manager, couldn’t you figure out both the circumference of the puck and the height of it like a cylinder? And then just confirm coordinates when the puck is in its final resting state either within the net or not?

You need three pieces of information: either three positions symetrically distributed about the puck or else the central position and two angular orientations. Together, these allow the 3-D position of all extremes of the puck to be determined. And on the software side, the technology exists to take data and turn it into "yes, the puck is in" or "no, the puck is not in" fast enough to do it live.

The issue is that the hardware systems which can provide this information for the puck are either not precise enough (it's not useful to replace the current system with something that provides a confident answer with even less precision) or are still reliant on line of sight being available.

The fastest and most precise technology seems to be to use some kind of camera system, which works in soccer, but even moving out of the visible wavelength range there is still the issue of obstruction of the view of the cameras.