PeePeeMcGee
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2024
- 9
- 12
I'd put Mike Grier's trading ability at average to slightly above average. Overall though, I'm satisfied.
I disagreeI'm sure we'll all still find a way to disagree!![]()
naturally I’m just preparing my arguments now with plenty of lead timeI'm sure we'll all still find a way to disagree!![]()
At the end of the day all he cares about is making moves that makes this team better. All this talk about squeezing other GMs or bailing a team out doesn't mean squat to him. He simply doesn't care so long as the move(s) he makes benefit the on-ice product.Kinda feels like Grier's cultivating an opposite rep from DW. Like DW was "the dentist" but Grier seems like he'll work out a deal if there's something there.
At this point it's mostly up to the players to make the team a competitive one and then it'll be his job again to turn a competitive team into a legit contender.He's mostly been very solid
I had questions when he first took the job, didn't love the return on Burns, hated the Kunin deal, didn't understand the Balcers buyout and not qualifying Dahlen
Ever since the Meier trade it's been straight bangers, he's squeezed blood from a stone the way he liquidated assets off our nothing roster
Take a look at the team entering the 2022-23 season and tell me with a straight face that you, at that moment in time, saw the assets to aquire 3 extra first round picks over the next 3 drafts
His asset plays have been masterful and the tank has been an incredible success, now the hard part begins, we'll see how it goes
We are still relying on Grier not to jump the gun and over commit to long term money for supplementary players before we know we are ready to compete, a rebuild can be sabotaged before it's even started by trying to accelerate too quickly and patching holes before the core pieces are ready to take the next stepAt this point it's mostly up to the players to make the team a competitive one and then it'll be his job again to turn a competitive team into a legit contender.
I think this perception is strictly related to the state of the teams each GM ran. When you are fine-tuning your contender, you have to be more discerning. When you are trying to improve your basement dweller, you don't have to be as delicate because almost anything (including Ceci) is an upgrade on what we have.Kinda feels like Grier's cultivating an opposite rep from DW. Like DW was "the dentist" but Grier seems like he'll work out a deal if there's something there.
Fair. I do think he made it clear and continues to make clear that he has no intention of rushing this rebuild.We are still relying on Grier not to jump the gun and over commit to long term money for supplementary players before we know we are ready to compete, a rebuild can be sabotaged before it's even started by trying to accelerate too quickly and patching holes before the core pieces are ready to take the next step
I'm not worried about it because Grier looks like he's taking the long, methodical road, but an ancy GM might feel their seat getting hot and try to fix a team that's rounding from last place to bottom 10 and thinks they can push into contention by throwing a huge contract at a free agent, it's why I'm not particularly high on the idea of signing Draisaitl (if he would even entertain coming here), giving an all offense forward $13M for 8 years 2 years before your cornerstones' ELCs are up could end in disaster
Kinda feels like Grier's cultivating an opposite rep from DW.
He was good at keeping long term contracts at bay. We had players that deserved them but he helped them understand.Trades were the only thing DW was ever good at.
He was only good at those shorter term contracts when thornton was on the team putting up point per game seasons and only asking for 3 year contracts at free agent time. Easy to keep an internal cap number when you have an unselfish team player leading the way.He was good at keeping long term contracts at bay. We had players that deserved them but he helped them understand.
He also made San Jose a place to play and live in. San Jose was a powerhouse for years.
He respected his players and often involved them in where they were traded.
He was good at so much more than you give him credit for.
He wasn’t perfect but he was easily one of the best.
Agreed, I always thought it was odd that suddenly he gave out an 8 year deal to Burns because the team was widely praised for the manner in which they did business and how they were never hamstrung by long deals. Once that one was inked, it was impossible to stop the rest of the players from also wanting max deals.He was only good at those shorter term contracts when thornton was on the team putting up point per game seasons and only asking for 3 year contracts at free agent time. Easy to keep an internal cap number when you have an unselfish team player leading the way.
DWs trades are the reason we are terrible now. Trading our futures year after year.Trades were the only thing DW was ever good at.
Could not disagree more. DW was a trading genius. One the greatest trading GM of the last 25 years.DWs trades are the reason we are terrible now. Trading our futures year after year.
Grier has done the opposite. Now we have Celebrini and Smith. Be happy
I appreciate you recognizing the positives of Doug Wilson.Could not disagree more. DW was a trading genius. One the greatest trading GM of the last 25 years.
Name a single trade since Gretzky that was better than the jumbo deal?
Burns too.
Boyle as well.
The toskala deal that became Logan couture???
Even ek was brilliant, just didn’t work out. At the time EVERY person, I mean all of them, were amazed that Doug landed him. Norris was a midlevel prospect and the pick was supposed to be in the 20s.
How quickly we forget that we legitimately competed for a Stanley cup just about year for nearly 20 years!!! That’s insanely good. I think during DW’s tenure, the Sharks won like top two or three most games in the whole league. Yes, they never won the cup but winning the actual cup is alot of luck too, which is why the vast majority of presidents trophy winners don’t win it. Had we won a cup or two, people would love DW, but that was largely unlucky too.
To be able to win so consistently for so long without the benefit of top picks or the like is insanely good. Like early unmatched good.
We are in this mess for a few reasons:
1. Dw left. I bet he would fixed it without a full scale suckfest. Could definitely be wrong here but I had a lot of faith in him.
2. Ek resign was the big mistake.
3. Covid. DW was a master of cap management. He understood that an 8x8 deal was a lot more expensive up front than on the back. He knew that people wrongly judge 8m five years from now as equally expensive as 8m today. Dw knew that was wrong and knew that he could count on the cap going up 2-3m per year.
Then covid hit and all that went out the window and suddenly the sharks are in cap trouble and the deals that woulda been fine values became bad ones. Think, how would cooch or burns or ek deals look if the cap was 100+m now? Not nearly as expensive.
4. Bad drafting. Yes dw traded picks a lot, but he drafted well until the end. The shakes missed a lot. They got practically nothing from 2018, 2019, and 2020 drafts and only wound from 2021.
Those draft years have been coming into the league and the Sharks got practically nothing. From 2018-2021, the Sharks drafted 30 guys and got one regular nhler. ONE named Eklund. That’s it. One. That means three straight years from 2018-2020, 21 picks, zero nhl regulars. Ouch.
Even going back to 2016, Ferraro is the only regular nhl aside from Eklund and Norris. Slim Pickens over 6-8 years of drafting.
Individually some of his trades look good value wise. It’s the amount of futures combined from all of the trades that left us where we are now. That combined with signing terrible contracts. He just went way too all in pleasing casual fans who have no grasp on the value of draft picks and prospects.Could not disagree more. DW was a trading genius. One the greatest trading GM of the last 25 years.
Name a single trade since Gretzky that was better than the jumbo deal?
Burns too.
Boyle as well.
The toskala deal that became Logan couture???
Even ek was brilliant, just didn’t work out. At the time EVERY person, I mean all of them, were amazed that Doug landed him. Norris was a midlevel prospect and the pick was supposed to be in the 20s.
How quickly we forget that we legitimately competed for a Stanley cup just about year for nearly 20 years!!! That’s insanely good. I think during DW’s tenure, the Sharks won like top two or three most games in the whole league. Yes, they never won the cup but winning the actual cup is alot of luck too, which is why the vast majority of presidents trophy winners don’t win it. Had we won a cup or two, people would love DW, but that was largely unlucky too.
To be able to win so consistently for so long without the benefit of top picks or the like is insanely good. Like early unmatched good.
We are in this mess for a few reasons:
1. Dw left. I bet he would fixed it without a full scale suckfest. Could definitely be wrong here but I had a lot of faith in him.
2. Ek resign was the big mistake.
3. Covid. DW was a master of cap management. He understood that an 8x8 deal was a lot more expensive up front than on the back. He knew that people wrongly judge 8m five years from now as equally expensive as 8m today. Dw knew that was wrong and knew that he could count on the cap going up 2-3m per year.
Then covid hit and all that went out the window and suddenly the sharks are in cap trouble and the deals that woulda been fine values became bad ones. Think, how would cooch or burns or ek deals look if the cap was 100+m now? Not nearly as expensive.
4. Bad drafting. Yes dw traded picks a lot, but he drafted well until the end. The shakes missed a lot. They got practically nothing from 2018, 2019, and 2020 drafts and only wound from 2021.
Those draft years have been coming into the league and the Sharks got practically nothing. From 2018-2021, the Sharks drafted 30 guys and got one regular nhler. ONE named Eklund. That’s it. One. That means three straight years from 2018-2020, 21 picks, zero nhl regulars. Ouch.
Even going back to 2016, Ferraro is the only regular nhl aside from Eklund and Norris. Slim Pickens over 6-8 years of drafting.
Yes. You are correct. We could have had Stutzle and Norris... Of course you could also make a strange argument that the EK trade (and sign) is why we have dickinson in the system, but I digress....Individually some of his trades look good value wise. It’s the amount of futures combined from all of the trades that left us where we are now. That combined with signing terrible contracts. He just went way too all in pleasing casual fans who have no grasp on the value of draft picks and prospects.
I’m not gonna name every bad trade because that will be an endless task but I will mention that we could have had Stuzle…
Burns trade -- F, by circumstance. I know Burns wanted out and Grier had limited options, but none of the assets we acquired from this trade are with the franchise anymore. Lorentz moved on to win a Cup elsewhere. I can't fault Grier for the outcome here.
EK65 trade -- D. The only thing that made this trade passable was the fact that the Penguins ended up sucking and getting us into a position to draft a top end D. The (only) 1st rounder we got in this trade, which should have gotten us multiple 1sts especially considering we retained *and* gave up a 3rd, could have easily been pick 25-32. Granlund was a nice surprise but was a HUGE question mark coming into the year. Hoffman ended up being one of the worst players to ever put on a Sharks sweater. And Rutta was a cap dump that has been a mixed bag in the games he wasn't injured for.
Walman trade - A. So far this is his best trade, of course it's dependent on how well Walman does, but getting a free pick to take on his services was a no brainer.
Trading up from 14 to 11 - C. A bog standard trade that any GM could have made.
Meier trade - B+. I was pretty high on Mukh the year he was drafted and wished we could have gotten him then. Could easily become the 2nd best D from that draft. Zetterlund wasn't anything special the remainder of the year after that trade but really stepped it up last season. Musty should have been picked higher and we lucked into him. Johnsson and Okhotiuk were busts.
Hertl trade - D+, would have been C without retention. Obviously this trade hinges on who we get with the pick next Draft. Edstrom is a project C who is at least 4 years from seeing NHL action. Return should have been better given the retention.
Ceci/Emberson trade - F. Absolutely nonsensical trade no matter what the circumstances. Ceci is a known pylon and becomes our worst Defenseman since Colin White. Giving up a young asset for a Cap Dump and what will likely end up being a low 3rd is abysmal no matter how you slice it.
Grundstrom for Burroughs - C. Burroughs sucks but I don't see Grundstrom becoming anything special considering the logjam in our bottom six. A nothing trade.
Wiesblatt - Afanayasev - F. Gave up an asset that could help the Barracuda for someone who will very likely never play for the Sharks ever.
Ty Dellandrea - C. see Grundstrom.
Devin Cooley - C. Insignificant.
Kahkonen for Vanacek and 7th - D. Kahkonen had better value than this due to the scarcity of Goaltenders on the market. Vanacek was a cap dump/reclamation project.
Okhotiuk for a 5th - C. insignificant.
Would you re-rate the Hertl trade now, based on todays move?Askarov - Edstrom/1st/Chrona - A. Get us the 2nd highest rated Goalie Prospect in the NHL (1st is Wallstedt) for our future. Edstrom would've had a tough time beating out Bystedt for the 3C role in a few years. Protected the Vegas 1st which is important. Easily his best trade ahead of Walman.
Would you re-rate the Hertl trade now, based on todays move?
Askarov - Edstrom/1st/Chrona - A. Get us the 2nd highest rated Goalie Prospect in the NHL (1st is Wallstedt) for our future. Edstrom would've had a tough time beating out Bystedt for the 3C role in a few years. Protected the Vegas 1st which is important. Easily his best trade ahead of Walman.
Could not disagree more. DW was a trading genius. One the greatest trading GM of the last 25 years.
Name a single trade since Gretzky that was better than the jumbo deal?
Burns too.
Boyle as well.
The toskala deal that became Logan couture???
Well, obvious selection, seeing that Grier hasn't added Ozolinsh to the roster yet..Clicked on it then decided to switch to NOT but the "Change your Vote Button" was Missing. LOL
The ChiChi latest trade was what was closest to my mind. When I Knee-Jerk Reacted.![]()