Post-Game Talk: [GM54} Canucks defeat Sharks | 2-1 (OT) | Joshua & O’Connor | Don’t Ask How Many, Just How

[AzNightmare]

Damn, should have been back to back shutouts. That play by Chytil was brutal. Essentially threw right into the slot.

EP40 not starting in OT is a very telling sign.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

An overtime win? I thought that was illegal

 

[Hodgy]

I don't think the team views it as serious enough for him to rest.

I don’t think there is any indication that the team thinks there is even still an injury. Certainly Alvin’s public criticisms of Pettersson in the past, and the fact he hasn’t missed a game for this “injury” (and he has missed a game for a different injury) suggest they don’t think any injury is causing his poor play.

And it’s not just the team. Pettersson is one of the top paid players in hockey, and he can also get his own independent medical advice which isn’t uncommon where a player disagrees with management as to how to address an injury. And if he felt the injury was predominately causing his poor play - FOR A WHOLE YEAR - and that resting and not playing would fix this, then why the hell has he not insisted on sitting out? And why the hell would he play in the Four Nations.

Nothing adds up.

I mean, even Hughes would be going to the 4 Nations while injured so...?

Hughes is super competitive and wants to go and clearly the team doesn’t want to go. This doesn’t support your argument very well so dr your point with Pettersson seems to be that the Canucks are making him play or something.

There's a lot of frustration with his play, I understand. He's getting ripped hard. But if something is impeding his speed, per objective measurement, then it is what it is.

I am not sure if this is just ambiguous drafting, but the NHL data is evidence of his poor play, not of the causation of that poor play. People seem to conflate this often.

Its nothing more complicated than his speed dropping by 50%, and one side thinking it's a mental thing and another thinking it's injury.

It’s a lot more nuanced than that, I think. Because a “mental thing”, can lead to a lack of preparation and poor training for the season, which is Allvin’s criticism, which has physical consequences (lack of power and energy leading to slower spreads). And these consequences of not being mentally prepared enough, or being mentally driven to the extent required, are like slow moving ripples that grow in size, and are not easily or quickly remedied.

I take no issue with anyone choosing to ascribe this to a mental block. Let's see if that block goes away at the 4 Nations?

Either way, it's going to be a data point.

Basically no one is saying it’s just a “mental” block. And even those who believe more strongly that an injury was or is a large factor, believe also that confidence has become a major issue. I am not sure if there is anyone that just thinks this is an injury issue.

Ironically, pro injury posters, back in February and March of last year, ridiculed the idea that his poor play could be the result of mental issues, but now almost everyone agrees that’s part of it.

 

[Nick Lang]

I agree pretty well. Some people are complicated and Miller sounds like an asshole that could mess someone up pretty well…just it’s hard to see a player perform so below their salary when their salary is so high. It’s like an injustice to humanity or something lol

because whatever hes dealing with hes gotta pick it up. no miller here anymore just play your game and shoot the puck. always always hesitant

One thing to remember here is to have some perspective. Everyone depending on their preference has been ragging on Petey and Miller all year to the point I'm sure it was just as unenjoyable to play as it was for us to watch.

However, since Miller got the boot we've acquired a fantastic dman (x2) and a very skilled fast forward in Chytil, and another nice and fast buzzsaw in O'Conner who scored the game winner last night. We're now 6-3-1 in our last 10, and 2-0-1 since the trade. We're winning, and Petey is part of that for now which is the really important thing. Give him some time to turn it around now that the situation has been addressed. It's not going to happen overnight.

I know we're all impatient but I would say at least let's see what it looks like at the TDL, and beyond. If he doesn't round back into form this season then we got a huge decision to make in the summer.

I go through that shit everyday at work.

I really feel sorry for all those poor folks. Do you wear your Petterson jersey too while you waltz around the office blowing your nose with $100 bills?

 

[JT Milker]

I think the not working out narrative for EP is about as silly as the terribly injured narrative. There’s no evidence that either of those things are true. No pro athlete just doesn’t train, he likely trained but whatever knee thing he has going on made his training insufficient. On top of that, his confidence/mentality looks broken, evidenced by passing up shots and fumbling pucks.

 

[Hodgy]

I think the not working out narrative for EP is about as silly as the terribly injured narrative. There’s no evidence that either of those things are true. No pro athlete just doesn’t train, he likely trained but whatever knee thing he has going on made his training insufficient. On top of that, his confidence/mentality looks broken, evidenced by passing up shots and fumbling pucks.

There is evidence. Allvin called out his preparation, and there are rumours he came into camp out of shape.

 

[JT Milker]

There is evidence. Allvin called out his preparation, and there are rumours he came into camp out of shape.

I think that’s true, but not because he’s lazy or refused to train. I think his training around whatever was bugging him wasn’t adequate.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

I think we need to focus on the amount of goals we are letting in right now. Looks like we have changed the game plan with Hughes out to survive the loss. Once he’s back I’m sure EP40 will start looking like himself. Hughes draws a lot of attention out there.

 

[pitseleh]

I think that’s true, but not because he’s lazy or refused to train. I think his training around whatever was bugging him wasn’t adequate.

Yeah, his training regimen every other year was good enough to have him be an elite skater in the NHL. I guess he could have just become lazy this offseason but it seems more likely that the modified training around the tendinitis wasn’t enough. Presumably the team thinks he could have done more still.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

EP needs to go to Bali to train.

 

[rypper]

EP needs to go to Bali to train.

 

[Hodgy]

Yeah, his training regimen every other year was good enough to have him be an elite skater in the NHL. I guess he could have just become lazy this offseason but it seems more likely that the modified training around the tendinitis wasn’t enough. Presumably the team thinks he could have done more still.

I think that’s true, but not because he’s lazy or refused to train. I think his training around whatever was bugging him wasn’t adequate.

Yeah, his training regimen every other year was good enough to have him be an elite skater in the NHL. I guess he could have just become lazy this offseason but it seems more likely that the modified training around the tendinitis wasn’t enough. Presumably the team thinks he could have done more still.

Ya. I agree with both of you that this was likely a factor. But as @pitseleh pointed out, management clearly doesn’t think he prepared well enough in the off season. And frankly, given when Allvin made the comments, his comments reasonably could be applied to Pettersson’s in season preparation as well.

But I think both can be true. He had to train around an injury which negatively affected his off season training, but that also after signing his big contract, he mentally let up and didn’t drive himself enough, both mentally and in terms of training.

 

[sting101]

Ya. I agree with both of you that this was likely a factor. But as @pitseleh pointed out, management clearly doesn’t think he prepared well enough in the off season. And frankly, given when Allvin made the comments, his comments reasonably could be applied to Pettersson’s in season preparation as well.

But I think both can be true. He had to train around an injury which negatively affected his off season training, but that also after signing his big contract, he mentally let up and didn’t drive himself enough, both mentally and in terms of training.

Was just about to reference this.....its February

He was here in September No?

it's possible after all the falling and a couple injuries that his skinny legs just cant produce the same speed and power

 

[LemonSauceD]

I do think a change of scenery is needed for Pettersson. I also do think he can return to being an 80-90 point player but just not with us. He hasn’t been able to string a couple of periods, let alone games, to make me think he has shown at least glimpses of returning to that caliber of play for us.

It’s been a year. I gave him the benefit of the doubt until about 25 games ago. At this point, I have literally no idea what is wrong. This isn’t like a normal slump. There is something fundamentally wrong with the makeup of Pettersson. It’s very Daigle like to me.

I do like him as a person. He is very caring and compassionate (the story with the Armenians), he is a gentleman on the ice and plays with integrity and honesty, and he’s always got time for others. I hate to see him go like this, but I think it’s time for a change for both sides.

 

[platotld]

The most dangerous thing for EP40s future with the team is if they keep winning despite his lackluster production.

The team might then begin to perceive him as expendable and get the idea that a package of players would be an upgrade over him that they could use now.

The most dangerous thing for EP40s future with the team is if they keep winning despite his lackluster production.

The team might then begin to perceive him as redeemable and get the idea that a package of players would not be an upgrade over him that they could use now.

 

[bossram]

Damn, should have been back to back shutouts. That play by Chytil was brutal. Essentially threw right into the slot.

EP40 not starting in OT is a very telling sign.

Petey can't skate. He's had a lower body issue objectively affecting his skating for a long time. That's not exactly conducive to the 3v3 game. I don't think it's that surprising.

I've been a fan of Chytil and I've enjoyed his creativity and transition ability. But there were a lot of instances last night where you can see why coaches get frustrated at Chytil's puck management - not just the brutal turnover at the end of regulation.

You'd think between all the hockey minds on the Canucks they could reel-in EP40.

The guy seems totally timid and distracted all the time. He used to be so forceful and in on every play.

It would probably be better if these "hockey minds" got off his case and left him alone, instead of doing pseudo therapy by way of media derision and "tough love". They're not psychologists.

It's pretty hard to conclude that whatever they're doing is helping.

 

[Hockeyphysio]

Maybe we should put EP40 on the wing in heavy ozone starts for a bit and see if he can find himself.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Yeah, his training regimen every other year was good enough to have him be an elite skater in the NHL. I guess he could have just become lazy this offseason but it seems more likely that the modified training around the tendinitis wasn’t enough. Presumably the team thinks he could have done more still.

Petey was never an elite skater. He had a quickness and burst to him that seems to have vanished, but he's always had a choppy, awkward stride.

 

[JT Milker]

Petey was never an elite skater. He had a quickness and burst to him that seems to have vanished, but he's always had a choppy, awkward stride.

He had elite top speed but his edge work stinks. Now he doesn’t have elite top speed and his edge work still stinks.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Just saw Dhaliwal ripping the MP deal getting done so quick as an insult to Boeser.

Or maybe it's mgmt indicating that his ask is too much and he may not be a Canuck next year?

 

[Ernie]

I do think the frustration extends beyond his injury. Preparation is a word that's used by management, not conditioning.

Great players are always trying to get better at everything.

He has always been fairly weak on his feet - this is a skill that could have been worked on.
Faceoffs have been weak - this is a skill that could have been worked on.
He's never been very strong at winning 1-on-1 battles on the boards - this is a skill that could have been worked on.

You see Quinn Hughes target a skill every offseason he can level up on, and because of this determination he is the best in the league.

Pettersson started at the same talent level as Hughes. He won the Calder. He's a good player, but he should be much better.

A winning team needs everyone to constantly be striving to be better all of the time regardless of what level they start with. They need to push each other competitively.

 

[Ernie]

Just saw Dhaliwal ripping the MP deal getting done so quick as an insult to Boeser.

Or maybe it's mgmt indicating that his ask is too much and he may not be a Canuck next year?

I wouldn't pay attention too much. Dhaliwal has been channeling Boeser's agent's message since the offseason.

If they want to use the M Pettersson example, Boeser sould be ok with taking 6 years and knocking $1m off of his ask.

When Dhaliwal says "Boeser's camp want $7m and 6 years" and he's not still signed, then we can start criticizing management.

 

[Hit the post]

I wouldn't pay attention too much. Dhaliwal has been channeling Boeser's agent's message since the offseason.

If they want to use the M Pettersson example, Boeser sould be ok with taking 6 years and knocking $1m off of his ask.

When Dhaliwal says "Boeser's camp want $7m and 6 years" and he's not still signed, then we can start criticizing management.

It's hardly like he has been paid like much of Burrows contracts before hitting his peak. Granted not his fault or the credit of his agent (given that Jetho Brodine structured his deal(s) such that he was pretty much given X dollars or not even give him an qualifying offer & letting him walk away for nothing).

 

[Cogburn]

We managed one goal, only by the loosest definition as a power play goal, against the worst team in the league, with a goalie coming in fresh from recovery from a months long injury.

Our goaltending, regardless of who is in right now, seems solid, and defensively we're not as bad as we were, despite Hughes' absense, but man....we need that game breaking forward.

Joshua is only going to get so many goregous tip ins, and O'Connor is only going to get so many penalty shots.

I don't like dissecting wins, but this was too, too close.

 

[Ernie]

We managed one goal, only by the loosest definition as a power play goal, against the worst team in the league, with a goalie coming in fresh from recovery from a months long injury.

Our goaltending, regardless of who is in right now, seems solid, and defensively we're not as bad as we were, despite Hughes' absense, but man....we need that game breaking forward.

Joshua is only going to get so many goregous tip ins, and O'Connor is only going to get so many penalty shots.

I don't like dissecting wins, but this was too, too close.

Their breakouts look better but they have very little going offensively.

This should not happen against the Sharks: