Post-Game Talk: [GM41] Canucks lose to Hurricanes | 0-2 | Pathetic Effort

[VanJack]

I've been as frustrated with Tocchet at times as anyone, but he can't go out on the ice and play defense.

When you have a blueline that can't skate the puck out; can't transition it out; and can't hit a forward in the neutral zone in stride and with some separation; you're not going to generate shots or goals.

It's really as simple as that. Watching guys like Juulsen, Myers, Desharnais and even Soucy just blindly shoot the puck out of the own zone is enough to make you want to cry at times.

It wasn't Tocchet who signed these guys. And as he's pointed out, you can't play Quinn Hughes more than 30 minutes every night. So short of some major infusion of blueline talent, this year's team is probably toast.

But that's on the GM, not the coach.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Tonight’s Game

• Had 25 missed shots; you gotta hit the net
• Lots of offensive zone time but a lot of missed opportunities
• Mentions a 2-on-1 where they tried to pass instead of shoot
• Little frustrated with their overpassing and missing the net

Pettersson

• Thought he was pretty good tonight

Team Confidence

• Need to stick with it and work on your game
• Put pucks on net
• Powerplay needs to come up with a goal

Get More Shots

• “No magic tic-tac-toe stuff”
• There are opportunities to shoot
• Hurricanes are one of the top shooting teams and only had 18 shots
• Need players to move their feet

Last year Toc press scrums were so refreshing and honest.

What a difference a year makes.

 

[centipede2233]

The Canucks are on their 5th coach in the last 12 years, at what point is coaching not the problem. Tocchet is the reigning jack adams winner. Like or dislike whatever moves he makes but he isn’t perfect and isn’t the problem. The injuries and demko looking like an ordinary goalie is what hurt this team, add in the rift for good measure, this team is cooked this year

 

[Regal]

I think this is pretty accurate, but with the caveat that this is what we are *while injured*. Healthy Demko last year over Sievelovs would have been massive and this year every single core player has been badly hurt.

I still think last years team was pretty good while healthy... this year, with the dropoff from Zad/Cole/last years Soucy to Forbort/Desharnais/this years Soucy.... not so much.

Yea, I think last year’s team was actually pretty good. They certainly were hot in the first half, but their underlying numbers were actually good in the second half and they could always close out leads and often could make late offensive pushes to win or tie the game. This year is definitely considerably worse, and it’s shown in the underlying numbers as well. The defense is a big part, but Miller and Boeser’s regression is also huge. They’re definitely capable of being a good team again with everyone healthy and with a couple defensive additions, but they just seem like a mess right now

 

[Nick Lang]

I never thought I would say this after last year but a coaching change seems inevitable.

This team has become the most boring, no risk team since the 2010 wild.

I'm not one to overreact but my God I have turned off more games recently than at any other time because you know exactly what the outcome is going to be.

This team has either lost all their offensive talent or they are being choked by a boring system.

I see too many posters with this stance around here. The first sign of adversity and out the door. So many people were just saying how great we played the game before. It's an up and down season I know but jeez people are quick to give up. Not in first, struggle a bit? Blow it up, fire everyone lol. The coach of the year is getting fired while in a playoffs spot after losing a significant part of the core the entire year long. Seems a little unfair and pre-mature.

 

[Big zZz]

Yea, I think last year’s team was actually pretty good. They certainly were hot in the first half, but their underlying numbers were actually good in the second half and they could always close out leads and often could make late offensive pushes to win or tie the game. This year is definitely considerably worse, and it’s shown in the underlying numbers as well. The defense is a big part, but Miller and Boeser’s regression is also huge. They’re definitely capable of being a good team again with everyone healthy and with a couple defensive additions, but they just seem like a mess right now

The everyone healthy excuse is becoming so lame duck anymore. Yes at one point we were down a lot of key guys but now it's Hronek and Joshua. Those guys shouldn't be affecting every forward on our rosters inability to drive the play.

 

[Diversification]

Doesn't make sense to me that Foote is the tree-lover. He's not a huge guy, was just a mean SOB to play against and had decent skill for a shutdown type of guy. I don't know where this love of trees comes from when the whole NHL has pretty much eliminated anyone that can't skate over the last 10 or so years.
2 way d are the name of the game, and these guys are not it.

Maybe... Foote just has problems seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[pitseleh]

I don’t think there’s any question that Tocchet’s approach sacrifices offense for defence. But this team was top-5 in even strength goals for just last season. You can say it was good luck/PDO but they are outperforming their xG by about the same rate as they did last season so it’s not like this is just the result of them falling back down to earth.

Hughes has the same on-ice GF/60 as Cale Makar at even strength. Hronek’s numbers are even better. Neither is quite at MacKinnon/Kucherov/McDavid/etc’s level but this team doesn’t have anyone at that level either. There’s probably a bit more juice to squeeze there, and opening things up a bit may even be better from a goal differential perspective, but I don’t think there’s a lot of room for things to get better there either.

The problem is the team scores less than half as much when Juulsen is on the ice, and a bit more than half as much when Desharnais, Forbort, and Soucy are on the ice. Some of that is usage but I don’t know how you open things up with those types of players without it hurting you more than it helps you.

The coaching staff continues to shoot themselves in the foot by not playing Brannstrom but he’s also not a world beater who will magically change things.

I’m not sure it is fair to lay the blame at the coaching staff’s feet given the personnel they have to work with.

 

[theguardianII]

Tocchet said.

"You can't win this game if you're going to be at the bottom of those categories," he said. "With that, there is structure. There is some hard rules to keep the puck out of your net without sacrificing offence.

Something old being new again?

Shut out 3 times, 5 games with one goal, 6 times only two goals. 14/41 = 34+% of games 2 goals or less.
All losses but one.

I’m not sure it is fair to lay the blame at the coaching staff’s feet given the personnel they have to work with

This surely the team Tocchet wanted, 2 summers of input, players bought out. Trades with retention from a 109 point team. 8 new NHL players of Tocchet style.

 

[Canucker]

I don’t think there’s any question that Tocchet’s approach sacrifices offense for defence. But this team was top-5 in even strength goals for just last season. You can say it was good luck/PDO but they are outperforming their xG by about the same rate as they did last season so it’s not like this is just the result of them falling back down to earth.

Hughes has the same on-ice GF/60 as Cale Makar at even strength. Hronek’s numbers are even better. Neither is quite at MacKinnon/Kucherov/McDavid/etc’s level but this team doesn’t have anyone at that level either. There’s probably a bit more juice to squeeze there, and opening things up a bit may even be better from a goal differential perspective, but I don’t think there’s a lot of room for things to get better there either.

The problem is the team scores less than half as much when Juulsen is on the ice, and a bit more than half as much when Desharnais, Forbort, and Soucy are on the ice. Some of that is usage but I don’t know how you open things up with those types of players without it hurting you more than it helps you.

The coaching staff continues to shoot themselves in the foot by not playing Brannstrom but he’s also not a world beater who will magically change things.

I’m not sure it is fair to lay the blame at the coaching staff’s feet given the personnel they have to work with.

Generally I agree with this, but I think the coaching staff does deserve more ire for not playing Brannstrom...agreed that he isn't a "world beater" by any stretch, but this was Allvin's "effort" to bring some puck moving to the back end and he continually dresses slugs over him. Even if it's generally for PP2 or OT deployment, he's far better than the alternatives and can provide a break to Hughes so he doesn't have to play a full PP or OT...the last thing we need is to burn him out.

 

[bob77]

Always seem to be reading how the D sucks, when our team has bad forwards.

 

[TruGr1t]

As someone mentioned previously, I'd be highly skeptical of management firing anyone after putting together this putrid d-core. Look in the mirror.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Calling for Tocchet's head makes no sense.

We have 2.5 NHL d-men with Hronek out. Can't transition to offense it's a meathead defense. Our best forwards have been missing all year. Miller a shell of himself, Boeser not the same since being cheap spotted, and Pettersson a 60 pt 2 way turd. All 3 of those guys should be getting 30 goals. I'll save you the math...it's not even close.

Tocchet has a team that should be good on paper but almost the ENTIRE team outside of Hughes has underperformed. I mean wow that's actually insane. It's not Tocchet.

People were calling for Alain Vigneault's head when we had zero secondary scoring and Cooke and Ritchie were launched into a top 6 role back in 2007-08. It makes zero difference sometimes.

 

[Vector]

Last year Toc press scrums were so refreshing and honest.

What a difference a year makes.

It’s been really really bad.

 

[Regal]

The everyone healthy excuse is becoming so lame duck anymore. Yes at one point we were down a lot of key guys but now it's Hronek and Joshua. Those guys shouldn't be affecting every forward on our rosters inability to drive the play.

Yea that’s what I was getting at with the mess part. I think they were a lot better last year even after the crazy PDO regressed and should be capable of that still when healthy with some tweaks to the defense, but they’re playing considerably worse this year as a team and specifically some of the main individuals. The inability to lock down a lead in particular is dramatically different. And part of that might be how good Demko was last year, but it’s definitely not all of it.

 

[Orr4Norris]

Not that I’m a huge Tocchet fan, but I don’t see the point in a new coach with this core. The problem is mainly that Miller and Petey have been ass this year. Hughes has been incredible and is in Norris consideration. That is what elite looks like. That is what you pay for. And he’s playing with the same coach, same system, and without his D partner for much of the year. Oh and now with a hand injury.

Miller and Petey are head cases. Maybe for different reasons but head cases nonetheless. This isn’t the first season they look like toddlers. This isn’t the first time they look to have quit on the team for parts of an important season. A new coach may change that for a short period, but at some point the management has to accept that this is what you may get if you build around those two flakes.

 

[strattonius]

Tocchet's system is where offence goes to die. He's getting this team to play like they were his Phoenix Coyote team.

That and the fact he hasn't really tried to make any changes and nothing he's doing is working. Team has pretty consistently looked like ass since last ASG which is almost a calendar year.

This is non-sense. We were one game away from the Western Conference Finals and had Demko not been injured who knows.

A really bad 15 game stretch here and everyone has turned on Tocchet. It's just everyone is looking for something to blame - and for a team that has had their best forwards missing all year as well as THAT defense I can't figure out how people are leaning on coaching. Unbelievable.

 

[Sonny A]

F@ck it! Burn it down!

 

[Nick Lang]

I don’t think there’s any question that Tocchet’s approach sacrifices offense for defence. But this team was top-5 in even strength goals for just last season. You can say it was good luck/PDO but they are outperforming their xG by about the same rate as they did last season so it’s not like this is just the result of them falling back down to earth.

Hughes has the same on-ice GF/60 as Cale Makar at even strength. Hronek’s numbers are even better. Neither is quite at MacKinnon/Kucherov/McDavid/etc’s level but this team doesn’t have anyone at that level either. There’s probably a bit more juice to squeeze there, and opening things up a bit may even be better from a goal differential perspective, but I don’t think there’s a lot of room for things to get better there either.

The problem is the team scores less than half as much when Juulsen is on the ice, and a bit more than half as much when Desharnais, Forbort, and Soucy are on the ice. Some of that is usage but I don’t know how you open things up with those types of players without it hurting you more than it helps you.

The coaching staff continues to shoot themselves in the foot by not playing Brannstrom but he’s also not a world beater who will magically change things.

I’m not sure it is fair to lay the blame at the coaching staff’s feet given the personnel they have to work with.

Yeah I totally agree with most of this. People also like to assume things like RT or Foote are behind the signing of our entire d-core. However, I'm not convinced at all they went to Allvin and said, "every dman must be a huge giant with limited mobility, stunted decision making, and poor playmaking/passing skills, with little two way ability.

I'm on the meh fence with Brannstrom though. Similar to blaming RT people keep clamoring for him like he's some savior and the coaching staff are dumb. Just because we're not having success with this group doesn't mean some other plug will turn things around though either. Same logic is used with Zadorov. They think our results somehow justifies that Zadorov was the way to go, which is faulty logic. He's stinking it up in Boston as we speak. I mean this is a coaching staff that sees the players everyday and sees the results yet still doesn't put Brannstrom in. Must be a reason ... like he sucks and he's not going to fix anything I'm guessing.

A lot of posters would be terrible coaches as they would just give up the plan at the first sign of trouble and throw random player after random player into the lineup because "it can't be any worse", thinking that is coaching. Actually it can be worse and that's why they don't do it. I mean hindsight is lovely after a loss.

Generally I agree with this, but I think the coaching staff does deserve more ire for not playing Brannstrom...agreed that he isn't a "world beater" by any stretch, but this was Allvin's "effort" to bring some puck moving to the back end and he continually dresses slugs over him. Even if it's generally for PP2 or OT deployment, he's far better than the alternatives and can provide a break to Hughes so he doesn't have to play a full PP or OT...the last thing we need is to burn him out.

As above. I'm fine with putting him in for a try but I also see zero evidence he'd do anything to significantly improve the team play. I mean there is a reason he was given away for nothing before the year even started. He may be able to play the puck but what about the rest of the game?

 

[Canucker]

As above. I'm fine with putting him in for a try but I also see zero evidence he'd do anything to significantly improve the team play. I mean there is a reason he was given away for nothing before the year even started. He may be able to play the puck but what about the rest of the game?

At the very least he can move the puck and try to soften the offensive load Hughes is carrying all by himself right now...the current lineup offers zilch, and even if Brannstrom accomplishes nothing, Tocchet can say, "I tried the best with what I had available", I don't believe can say that right now.

 

[Nick Lang]

At the very least he can move the puck and try to soften the offensive load Hughes is carrying all by himself right now...the current lineup offers zilch, and even if Brannstrom accomplishes nothing, Tocchet can say, "I tried the best with what I had available", I don't believe can say that right now.

Yeah I get what you're saying. I would like to see it I guess just to see if the posters are right and the coaching staff is wrong. And like you said to exhaust all possibilities. Definitely makes sense and I'm not against it I just wonder how far down that logic should go. I mean if he doesn't work, should we then cycle through Woo, McWard, Kudryavtsev, D-Petey, and finally bring up Mynio for a 20 game trial? I want to believe the coaching staff can evaluate the talent they see everyday better than an online posting forum, but who knows.

I have played on teams before where you just suck and it's obvious but the alterative is even grosser lol. I also don't think he would lessen the load at all for Quinn. It's not like Hughes can coast or play less minutes because a different line has better passing on it ... I don't think anyway. He's still going to play high minutes and be relied on 110% to do what he does regardless.

 

[Canucker]

Yeah I get what you're saying. I would like to see it I guess just to see if the posters are right and the coaching staff is wrong. And like you said to exhaust all possibilities. Definitely makes sense and I'm not against it I just wonder how far down that logic should go. I mean if he doesn't work, should we then cycle through Woo, McWard, Kudryavtsev, D-Petey, and finally bring up Mynio for a 20 game trial? I want to believe the coaching staff can evaluate the talent they see everyday better than an online posting forum, but who knows.

I have played on teams before where you just suck and it's obvious but the alterative is even grosser lol. I also don't think he would lessen the load at all for Quinn. It's not like Hughes can coast or play less minutes because a different line has better passing on it ... I don't think anyway. He's still going to play high minutes and be relied on 110% to do what he does regardless.

I know they talk a good talk about coaching and management being on the same page and in lockstep about what they are trying to accomplish here, but if that's the case it's pretty baffling to me that they haven't done more to address the most obvious problems on this team...I think Brannstrom was an "attempt" to try and help, knowing that he likely wasn't the ultimate solution, but the coaches won't even give him a solid chance to fill a necessary role that they know isn't being filled by Forbort, or anyone else...and if Brannstrom isn't a player Tocchet can stomach in the lineup, for whatever reason...they still need someone who can move the puck better than their current available options...why not try players in the AHL? Especially if the trade route is too costly in their estimation...Isn't that generally what they are there for? Try Wolanin? Kudryatsev? Whoever has earned a cup of coffee...I like to see merit rewards, especially if the current lineup isn't really earning their place...It just frustrating to see them flushing a season down the drain with what appears to be a lack of exhausting every effort to shore up the areas of most obvious concern.