Post-Game Talk: [GM39] Canucks lose to Canadiens in OT | 4-5 | Miller(2), Lekkerimaki, & DeBrusk | Snatching Defeat From the Jaws of Victory

[Bougieman]

Tired of people bringing up Zadorov. That wasn't the mistake of the off season, it was just the cost of doing bizniz. The mistake of the off season was dumping Ian Cole and replacing him and Zadorov with Vinny D and Forbert. Soucy's drop off in play couldn't have really been predicted, but WE ALL predicted that those other two were not going to be an adequate replacement. Everyone saw it coming. It wasn't a shocker.

The frustrating thing is that there is still time, and there was still time, to fix this. It will take some creative moves and such, but if they simply prioritize fixing the bottom 4 Defence, things could really turn around for this team. We need a shake up. It's absolutely vital right now. Look at their confidence. IT'S SHOT.

It's just brutal watching the team plod along, talk about putting this last loss behind them and look towards the next game, and then come out and have every game be a repeat of the last. Even the games they win in the last two months have the same look as their losses. Scrambling to hold on to a lead, and just barely making it by the skin of their teeth. They CAN NOT make the playoffs with this d-core. They've done miraculous work thus far given what they have, and the injuries they've faced, but daaaaamn, the front office needs to finally step in and help out.

I dunno if there would be a significant return on Hogz at this point given how bad his stock has fallen, but you have to imagine at least one team would be willing to take a chance that a guy that scored 25 goals last year and was a +23 on the year, and plays like a jackhammer when he's on his game might flourish again with a change of scenery. I love the guy, but he's on pace for 5 goals this season. It's not working in Vancouver for him. Surely SOMEone would give up an Ian Cole stay-at-home type for a guy who lit the lamp 25 times last season.

 

[geebster]

I've seen similar stuff used in rehab setting, usually used to secure and stabilize various finger joints. In this case, it looks like the carpometacarpal joint and possible metacarpalphalangeal joints (latter is unlikely, as in the photo he seems to be bending those joints), aka joints at the knuckle where your palm ends and your tentacles begin.

I could be wrong though.

Its too distal to be carpometacarpal (he can totally move his wrist where that is placed), and its too proximal to be metacarpophalangeal (he can move his knuckles). That is a metacarpal splint. Possible metacarpal fracture, and theres a palmar component to the splint as well as his dorsal part that you see in the image.

Possible fracture, possible soft tissue injury that they want to shield there. For a fracture you normally would either use the thumb for a proximal metacarpal fracture or the fingers for a distal one... but maybe you cant fit a glove over that? Not good to speculate.

EDIT: looking at it again it is totally stabilizing his 3rd and 4th joints, metacarpophalangeal (unlikely) or a distal metacarpal fracture is WAY more likely. I shouldve clicked the image before, didnt see the pieces above the knuckle on either side of the 3rd and 4th. Looks like a distal metacarpal fracture to me.

 

[valkynax]

Its too distal to be carpometacarpal (he can totally move his wrist where that is placed), and its too proximal to be metacarpophalangeal (he can move his knuckles). That is a metacarpal splint. Possible metacarpal fracture, and theres a palmar component to the splint as well as his dorsal part that you see in the image.

Possible fracture, possible soft tissue injury that they want to shield there. For a fracture you normally would either use the thumb for a proximal metacarpal fracture or the fingers for a distal one... but maybe you cant fit a glove over that? Not good to speculate.

Either way one hopes its just there to shield it and isnt there to stabilize it... since... it isnt going to stabilize much there.

Team should let Hughes rest. If he's the only one injured, we're pushing for playoffs at a critical point and the rest of the team just need that extra push, MAYBE an argument can be made to let him play. But with the way things are going right now, letting Hughes play is detriment to the team's future and is putting huge risk on additional injuries.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

BS penalty on Hogs. Happens all the time. Nothing he did there with a stick in his hand would have been called, and he didn't grab/wrap anyone.

Visually, it looks bad, a smaller player just being stronger than everybody, refs just assume he must be cheating. Habs player initiated half the contact and had just touched the puck. If anything, it was a small pick and he got thrown on his ass by a gentle shove.

This is hockey, you are allowed to push people and battle for position, even without the puck.

 

[geebster]

BS penalty on Hogs. Happens all the time. Nothing he did there with a stick in his hand would have been called, and he didn't grab/wrap anyone.

Visually, it looks bad, a smaller player just being stronger than everybody, refs just assume he must be cheating. Habs player initiated half the contact and had just touched the puck. If anything, it was a small pick and he got thrown on his ass by a gentle shove.

This is hockey, you are allowed to push people and battle for position, even without the puck.

I thought he didnt touch the puck. If he did touch it then im actually mad that was called. Its not that late at real time if he touched that puck and its just a shove. If the puck wasnt touched then.. you cant be shoving people like that in retaliation when the puck isnt there ( it looks bad...especially if they are going to dive)

 

[sting101]

A hand bruise/contusion ≠ incapacitation.


The cries for coddling adult men, in a
professional sports league, over a clearly minor issue, are ridiculous, and laughable.

nah not all of them just the top line skilled guys they like.

and then when those players sit at home nursing bruises they can dump ass on the players playing above their pay grade injured and call everybody useless

 

[Bougieman]

A stat that doesn't get talked about enough concerning this team, and where it is at at about the midway point of the season:

The Canucks do not have a single forward in the top 80 point producers in the league. That's downright insane, given how good this team is on paper, and how many of them were in the top 80 last season. (3 in the top 50)

The also only have a single forward in the top 200 plus/minus (Heinen in 181st). That's bonkers, you guys.

 

[sting101]

The single biggest difference between this year’s team and last year’s team is goaltending. They had a .914 SV% on January 6 last year and have an .885 this year.

At the same SV% as last year they would have 31 fewer GA and probably 8-10 more points in the standings.

Goaltending is also the end result of giving quality scoring chances. We've had a lot of contributing factors.

Do agree that Lankinen's game has taken a bit of a turn. But not everyone is Vasilevsky or Halleybuck. He's been good on aggregate

 

[Kimota]

Seattle. Calgary. Nashville. Hell, Montreal is 11th in the East.

We're losing to bad teams.

Don't sell yourself short: Habs just have returned from a trip where they defeated Tampa, Florida, Colorado and Vegas back to back.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

I'd like to see Hughes playing more minutes, gotta make up for those missed games. IDGAF if he has a spoon taped to his hand. All the better to eat up dem shifts.

 

[DFAC]

Tired of people bringing up Zadorov. That wasn't the mistake of the off season, it was just the cost of doing bizniz. The mistake of the off season was dumping Ian Cole and replacing him and Zadorov with Vinny D and Forbert. Soucy's drop off in play couldn't have really been predicted, but WE ALL predicted that those other two were not going to be an adequate replacement. Everyone saw it coming. It wasn't a shocker.

The frustrating thing is that there is still time, and there was still time, to fix this. It will take some creative moves and such, but if they simply prioritize fixing the bottom 4 Defence, things could really turn around for this team. We need a shake up. It's absolutely vital right now. Look at their confidence. IT'S SHOT.

It's just brutal watching the team plod along, talk about putting this last loss behind them and look towards the next game, and then come out and have every game be a repeat of the last. Even the games they win in the last two months have the same look as their losses. Scrambling to hold on to a lead, and just barely making it by the skin of their teeth. They CAN NOT make the playoffs with this d-core. They've done miraculous work thus far given what they have, and the injuries they've faced, but daaaaamn, the front office needs to finally step in and help out.

I dunno if there would be a significant return on Hogz at this point given how bad his stock has fallen, but you have to imagine at least one team would be willing to take a chance that a guy that scored 25 goals last year and was a +23 on the year, and plays like a jackhammer when he's on his game might flourish again with a change of scenery. I love the guy, but he's on pace for 5 goals this season. It's not working in Vancouver for him. Surely SOMEone would give up an Ian Cole stay-at-home type for a guy who lit the lamp 25 times last season.

Agreed. I love Zadorov but signing him to that contract would have been a mistake.

People around here get too attached. He was good for us but wanted too much $$$. Our mistake was replacing him with Forbort and Desharnais

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Myers has a surprising ability, to slingshot around the net, like shuttles around the moon in Armageddon.

He's leaving a lot of fast players in the wake.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The team needs 2 centers, 2 defenseman. We barely have 1 center.

 

[David71]

I gotta say it again, nickel and diming Zadorov till he walked was stupid arrogant shit. Our D is an absolute disaster... and sitting Brannstrom for an extended period right now over guys like VD or Juulsen is just another terrible decision.

Can they try to get a decent Dman for someone like Boeser?

juulsen should sit soucy should sit. call up 2-3 guys from abby they could acutally player BETTER D thann the curret one. NGL.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

thx to amazon prime i got to watch this game on my own time, instead of missing it because i was still at work/on transit/taking the kiddo to his lesson

fun game to watch, lots of hitting, although montreal deserved to win. even with all our trees on the back end, man did they make us look small

miller had a game, not much else you can say about him

actually one thing: hilarious how PG the amazon guys are. miller shows no emption whatsoever because he’s “dialed in.” the fans call myers “chaos giraffe” because we appreciate him

hughes looked not quite like himself but man, that kid recovered after blowing two tires like it was nothing. the powerplay with him back is night and day

thought desharnais looked pretty good actually

juulsen is juulsen, not an NHL player. literally any other dman would have been a better choice to start OT

have to say, myers was flying and taking the body. an inch to the right and we probably win this game

really nice shot by debrusk on our last goal, a lot harder than it looked. but man he just is not applying himself physically is he?

conversely, great game by hog. that last shift where they stuck him with the penalty, he was all

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Agreed. I love Zadorov but signing him to that contract would have been a mistake.

People around here get too attached. He was good for us but wanted too much $$$. Our mistake was replacing him with Forbort and Desharnais

on the ice, zaddy was a luxury we couldn’t afford

but as a personality hire, he probably should have been brought back even at that cost

so much vibe lost since last year

 

[Green Blank Stare]

Then light it on fire.

Nothing we do (trading a mid-1st) is going to change anything long-term but could get you a #3D.

Throwing this season and next away, you may as well tell Hughes to quit. Then you’re in a full rebuild anyways.

Are they really gonna get a legit 3D who isn't expiring for a mid-first?

Tired of people bringing up Zadorov. That wasn't the mistake of the off season, it was just the cost of doing bizniz. The mistake of the off season was dumping Ian Cole and replacing him and Zadorov with Vinny D and Forbert. Soucy's drop off in play couldn't have really been predicted, but WE ALL predicted that those other two were not going to be an adequate replacement. Everyone saw it coming. It wasn't a shocker.

The frustrating thing is that there is still time, and there was still time, to fix this. It will take some creative moves and such, but if they simply prioritize fixing the bottom 4 Defence, things could really turn around for this team. We need a shake up. It's absolutely vital right now. Look at their confidence. IT'S SHOT.

It's just brutal watching the team plod along, talk about putting this last loss behind them and look towards the next game, and then come out and have every game be a repeat of the last. Even the games they win in the last two months have the same look as their losses. Scrambling to hold on to a lead, and just barely making it by the skin of their teeth. They CAN NOT make the playoffs with this d-core. They've done miraculous work thus far given what they have, and the injuries they've faced, but daaaaamn, the front office needs to finally step in and help out.

I dunno if there would be a significant return on Hogz at this point given how bad his stock has fallen, but you have to imagine at least one team would be willing to take a chance that a guy that scored 25 goals last year and was a +23 on the year, and plays like a jackhammer when he's on his game might flourish again with a change of scenery. I love the guy, but he's on pace for 5 goals this season. It's not working in Vancouver for him. Surely SOMEone would give up an Ian Cole stay-at-home type for a guy who lit the lamp 25 times last season.

Agreed. I love Zadorov but signing him to that contract would have been a mistake.

People around here get too attached. He was good for us but wanted too much $$$. Our mistake was replacing him with Forbort and Desharnais

on the ice, zaddy was a luxury we couldn’t afford

but as a personality hire, he probably should have been brought back even at that cost

so much vibe lost since last year

They should have paid him. Yeah, it's a little high for his production but it isn't all measured by points with him. And when you let a guy like that walk, you end up trying to plug the holes with inferior players at the same cost anyway and getting worse results (as we're seeing this year).

Team culture matters.

 

[Green Blank Stare]

Zadorov is making $5 million; Myers, Forbort and Desharnais are making $6.5 million between them. Myers and Forbort are $5 mil together.

Just look at that and tell me what you'd rather do with that money. This is what always happens when teams try to spread the money around on lesser guys instead of paying the guy who deserves it and fits.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Zadorov is making $5 million; Myers, Forbort and Desharnais are making $6.5 million between them. Myers and Forbort are $5 mil together.

Just look at that and tell me what you'd rather do with that money. This is what always happens when teams try to spread the money around on lesser guys instead of paying the guy who deserves it and fits.

Could I TL;DR this for you? I've always wanted to ask that to someone.

TL;DR

DONT MISMANAGE YOUR CAP BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN YOUR REBUILD IS DONE


big dont make me tap the sign energy

 

[VanillaCoke]

Team should let Hughes rest. If he's the only one injured, we're pushing for playoffs at a critical point and the rest of the team just need that extra push, MAYBE an argument can be made to let him play. But with the way things are going right now, letting Hughes play is detriment to the team's future and is putting huge risk on additional injuries.

The team lest Hughes rest since Christmas eve..

When he was too injured to play, he did not play for four games. After resting for two weeks he's healed enough to play again.

Two points in twenty-five ish minutes is proof positive for all, no need to worry excessively about a man's sore hand.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Zadorov is making $5 million; Myers, Forbort and Desharnais are making $6.5 million between them. Myers and Forbort are $5 mil together.

Just look at that and tell me what you'd rather do with that money. This is what always happens when teams try to spread the money around on lesser guys instead of paying the guy who deserves it and fits.

I would take Myers and his contract over Zadorov and his contract... And I'm not bullish on Myers nor the 3rd year of his deal.

 

[Bleach Clean]

In the end, Canucks didn't deserve to win but an ugly way to lose it. Defense is, and this isn't news, terrible. Getting out of their zone looks so labored and mistake prone and play around the net is, at best, plodding. Backdoor plays were open all game.

Good

Miller - don't think he is full speed but his anticipation and puck movement were very good. Really all we had. Game where he showed his skill and potential. If he ever gets his full game back he will be a monster for someone in the playoffs. There should be no trading Miller unless the return is huge. Whatever, psychologically or physically, (likely a combination of both) has been effecting Miller, his fall off in play has been large reason for the teams poor season.

Myers - Myer haters are never going to concede that he is anything else but awful and the source of the team's problems. Fact is, he was excellent in this game and was the best at getting the puck up ice and in defending in his end. Only player on defense with a plus (+2) and the only player to support (or better said carry) other d-men. Too bad the one off the post didn't go in, but that rush was an example of his alert and aggressive play.

Lekkermaki - had that glittering one minute of offensive action that was critical to getting anything out of this game. Didn't really hurt the team defensively.

Bad

Soucy - had some absolutely abysmal shifts. Looks hurt. The Soucy - Juulsen pairing was tied up in thier end all game. Soucy just looked out of it and this was best shown by his lack of coverage around his net. Can see other teams know the Canuck defensive problems and are driving things wide b/c they know that many of our d-men can't cut them off.

Forbert - has no ability to hold the blue line. Montreal could rush the puck into the Canuck zone with ease whenever Forbert ot Desharnais were playing. And when the puck is deep in the Canuck zone, neither one of them can get on the puck, or on opponet, quick enough to prevent a pass or a shot. Slot often is wide open

Boeser - weakest forward. Again useless. Should be traded as quickely as possible and don't expect much back. Rental so could get something. Hard watching him at the moment.

Others

Lankanin - might have won this game if Lankain was playing like he was at the beginning of the season.

Garland - play has fallen off. This team needs Garland to be good but he has been no better than average the last two games.

Hughes - could see he was mishandling the puck at times due to the injury. Give him credit for struggling through the game and being mostly a positive.

Hoglander - not great but contributing more than he has for most of the season. (such as on the first goal). Penalty late in the game was brain dead although the refs should have probably let it go given the way most tof the game was called.

DeBrusk - after his goal woke up and became a factor. Have to ask where was this type of play earlier in the game. Up to 17 goals which, on paper at least, makes his signing a positive.

Team is not playing well and that continued in this game. Continue to pick up points but at this point have to wonder if that is a postive or a negative. Team may be soon at a point where they have to give up on this season and look towards improving lottery odds..

A few comments about this orcatown:

Hoglander - Had a strong game. I noticed he was looking to make a play, not just performing a task. He plays like this, the offense will come. The reward was gaining ice time late in the game.

DeBrusk - Seemed lost with Suter-Garland. Actually, that whole line got caved in. If he's with Miller and Boeser in this game, you see a totally different player imo. He needs a consistent framework.

Lankinen - Is one of the reasons for this loss. Showing like a back up now.

Myers - Gap control on the 4th goal was bad. On MTL's 2nd goal, he gave up a 5 alarm chance just before hand. On Miller's 2nd goal, Myers initially threw the puck into skates before getting a redo. On balance, he was not excellent, but was good enough to be a positive overall. 2nd best VAN Dman on the night.

Boeser - You have it out for him. He is the best winger on the team. Prior to this 3 game slump, he had 6 goals in 4 games. He looked slow this game. That does not constitute just throwing him away.

Miller - His lack of celebration withstanding, he was a beast. When he's on, he can will a team forward. Put on a clinic on the powerplay. I sometimes marvel at his offensive IQ. To be in the right spot after Lekkerimaki flubs the partial break. To freeze the PK and find DeBrusk. To thread a pass to a streaking Garland on the weakside. And so on. He's erratic, but has a high ceiling. Great game from him. Kudos.

Lekkerimaki - Had a top4 CF Rel% despite being physically inferior. Only needed a few moments to hurt MTL on the scoreboard. All of this despite getting run over by Gulhe in the 1st. Kid's got heart.

 

[F A N]

Tired of people bringing up Zadorov. That wasn't the mistake of the off season, it was just the cost of doing bizniz. The mistake of the off season was dumping Ian Cole and replacing him and Zadorov with Vinny D and Forbert. Soucy's drop off in play couldn't have really been predicted, but WE ALL predicted that those other two were not going to be an adequate replacement. Everyone saw it coming. It wasn't a shocker.

It's kind of part and parcel. The mistake is expecting 28+ year olds to be much better than what they have shown. Like in the Moneyball movie, the whole concept was the Athletics went out and acquired guys expecting them to do what they statistically did in the past to replace what has been lost. But that's not the case here. Myers has long been inconsistent and is typically somewhere between a #4 and a #5 Dman. He's also 34. Soucy has been a solid #5 but doesn't havea track record of being a top 4 Dman. Forbort does have a some history of being a #4 but injuries have always impacted his game and he is coming off a poor season where at his worse he looked like he's on his way out of the NHL. His ability to transition the puck up ice was and is terrible. Then there's Desharnais who has one year where he looked to be an NHL regular who is also terrible at transitioning the puck up ice. Aside from Myers, the other guys also don't skate well. If they are who they are the PK should be fine but you're going to have nights where the D fails to transition the puck up the ice.

Compare that to Zadorov who has a track record of being a very good #5 and the ability to step it up in the playoffs. We saw what he can do with the puck. He's vastly better than Forbort and Desharnais. Was it a mistake letting Zadorov go? We don't really know. Keep in mind that the reason Zadorov didn't return was over term and not AAV. Then there's Cole. In his prime he's a #3 and he obviously has gas left in the tank. He'll probably slow down towards the end of the season which has been happening since his Carolina days. But still, there's no doubt that he would still be a very good #5 who can handle defensive responsibilies. He too is vastly better at transitioning the puck up ice than Forbort and Desharnais.

So like you said, everyone saw it coming. The combined talent level of our bottom 4 was vastly superior last season.

 

[VanJack]

I know Sat and the Sportnet 650 crew have dissed Brannstram constantly.....and it's true, at times he goes get caved in, in his own zone.

But without Hronek and except for Hughes who's playing with basically one hand, they have nobody and I mean nobody who can either skate or transition the puck out of their own zone.

Watching Soucy and Juulsen masquerading as a second-pair tandem is like a re-run of the nightmare on Elm Street. I mean how much worse can it possibly be with Brannstrom in the lineup?

But if they don't want to play him, they need to bring up D-Petey or even Kudryavtsev. I mean seriously---can we find a d-man who can make a six foot pass? Watching this crew just playing bank shots off the boards and the glass, is enough to make your eyes water.

 

[JT Milker]

The Canucks have been near the top of the league both years in xGA and at limiting high danger chances against, so the available data says otherwise.

Lankinen has been fine (average-ish) and Silovs terrible, whereas Demko was elite and that amounts to a huge difference.

I can accept that people can see things otherwise on the magnitude of the effect but I can’t realistically see how the difference isn’t at least 4-5 points in the standings so far, and more likely more than less.

I’m a bit surprised everyone dismisses this. Overall, we have not gotten good goaltending this year.