Post-Game Talk: GM18 | Canucks lose to Rangers | 3-4 (Hughes, Sherwood, & Garland) | Walking Wounded

[Regal]

lets play devils advocate here. rewind back to july 1st. had vancouver NOT resigned tyler myers, and not get forbort/VD. Who do you think would they have gotten?. there were some names that were nice to have but probbaly too expensive to sign. i.e montour, walker. branstrom would have been one for sure. so you add another puckmover. now 3 more slots. for example:

hughes/hronek
brady skeji/matt roy
soucy/cheaper rhd.
juulssen this one seems better than the one being iced every single game.

here is the 2024 free agent class

Top NHL free agent defensemen: Montour among best | NHL.com

Gostisbehere, Ekman-Larsson, Skjei also available

www.nhl.com

To me, the typical GM idea of “well who else is there?” is problematic. I understand the team wants to be competitive but signing guys who aren’t great, especially for longer deals like Myers just hamstrings you for when guys you want do become available. If these guys don’t improve, they’ll need to make a move this year that they would have had to make anyway if they didn’t sign them. Except it’ll be harder under the cap and harder still to make a move next summer, including re-signing a guy if they pick up a pending UFA like Pettersson.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Ya but Hughes is underpaid for what he brings to the game. He continually shows he is a top 5 D-man in the world. He should be in the 9+ mil range at a bare minimum. Likely the 10-12 range.

This isn't because Hronek is overpaid, it's because Hughes is a $13 million player getting paid $8 million.

Yeah you guys are right, he's showing how elite his is, every year he keeps getting better, there's no question if he keeps these kind of numbers up for his career he's HOF bound. He definitely deserves Karlsson like salary, but he's also young so his next contract will easily be at that price range no doubt.

It's just frustrating seeing how they paid Hronek this much to basically just be Hughes's partner only, and if you move him off that line they have no depth to have someone else play with Hughes, it's just bad overall imo.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Are the Canucks coaching staff just average? Was Tocchet out coached again?

I'll admit I was skeptical with hiring Tocchet looking at his past history record with Arizona, but after I saw how hard he wanted his players to play under him and then the success they had, by playing a 200ft game instead of a 100ft game like they did under Bruce and still generating offense with trying to be better defensively, unlike when say Travis Green was here and was just being good defensively, I've come to like Tocchet.

And then, if you go back to say 2013 when Tortorella was signed, that's 11 years and 5 coaches now, do Canucks really need a 6th coach, in 11-12 years... No, imo people need to get away from blaming the coach here anymore, I think they have a good enough one now, it's just getting the right players now.

 

[strattonius]

Yeah you guys are right, he's showing how elite his is, every year he keeps getting better, there's no question if he keeps these kind of numbers up for his career he's HOF bound. He definitely deserves Karlsson like salary, but he's also young so his next contract will easily be at that price range no doubt.

It's just frustrating seeing how they paid Hronek this much to basically just be Hughes's partner only, and if you move him off that line they have no depth to have someone else play with Hughes, it's just bad overall imo.

Hronek is paid that much because he is a good passer, good defender and he has some offensive skills such as a hard shot. The guy is the ONLY capable player of playing with Hughes and somehow people turn this in to 'he is only paid to play with Hughes'. He is worth every cent of his AAV. As that CAP keeps rising we will be thankful we have a guy that can play 24 minutes for that amount. Honestly it sounds like you've poorly analyzed both the players abilities as well as the rarity of good defenders and what they cost.

He's one of only 2 legit defensemen on this roster right now and when our team is out of order and struggling I guess I just don't understand why he even gets criticized - he is the least of our problems. And this fantasy world of Hronek needing to show he can anchor his own pairing is total nonsense. Do you think the Avalanche are worried or looking for Devon Toews to anchor his own pair? They don't care. They have an extremely effective pair just like Hughes-Hronek.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Hronek is paid that much because he is a good passer, good defender and he has some offensive skills such as a hard shot. The guy is the ONLY capable player of playing with Hughes and somehow people turn this in to 'he is only paid to play with Hughes'. He is worth every cent of his AAV. As that CAP keeps rising we will be thankful we have a guy that can play 24 minutes for that amount. Honestly it sounds like you've poorly analyzed both the players abilities as well as the rarity of good defenders and what they cost.

He's one of only 2 legit defensemen on this roster right now and when our team is out of order and struggling I guess I just don't understand why he even gets criticized - he is the least of our problems. And this fantasy world of Hronek needing to show he can anchor his own pairing is total nonsense. Do you think the Avalanche are worried or looking for Devon Toews to anchor his own pair? They don't care. They have an extremely effective pair just like Hughes-Hronek.

Who do you play with Hughes if you move Hronek down to the 2nd line for more depth? Like I said before if you didn't sign him and Myers, that's $10.25M to sign other players, wouldn't it of been better to sign 2 other players at a range of say 4.5-5M range to give you 2 lines instead of just 1 line.

I remember Luke Schenn played with Hughes and Hughes did well with him, he also liked playing with Schenn, not saying Luke Schenn is a great overall player but he was able to play decent with him, it was when Hughes started playing with Myers it was so bad, they then went and got Hronek and it became good again. Hughes got a Norris, and then Hronek got his 8 year contract, but if you take Hronek off that line Hughes has no one to play with him, so that looks like Hronek was only signed to play with Hughes.

 

[iceburg]

I was at the game last night. It was actually a really entertaining game. Sucks they lost but NY is very solid and it’s clear that the trickle down effect of losing a few top liners is real.
They gave what they had. Hard to be disappointed.

 

[tantalum]

I was at the game last night. It was actually a really entertaining game. Sucks they lost but NY is very solid and it’s clear that the trickle down effect of losing a few top liners is real.
They gave what they had. Hard to be disappointed.

It is. They play that way every night and they will win quite a bit more than they lose. Other than the back end the team is pretty deep. And if the Myers and Soucy can sort their crap out the backend is good as well.

 

[theguardianII]

Pettersson's best performance this year. A primary assists 5 on 5 and 2 pts 5 on 5.

Hughes appeared to run out of gas, Hronek had a good game.

They hurt in the faceoffs.

Every player gave everything they had, their best.

 

[strattonius]

Who do you play with Hughes if you move Hronek down to the 2nd line for more depth? Like I said before if you didn't sign him and Myers, that's $10.25M to sign other players, wouldn't it of been better to sign 2 other players at a range of say 4.5-5M range to give you 2 lines instead of just 1 line.

I remember Luke Schenn played with Hughes and Hughes did well with him, he also liked playing with Schenn, not saying Luke Schenn is a great overall player but he was able to play decent with him, it was when Hughes started playing with Myers it was so bad, they then went and got Hronek and it became good again. Hughes got a Norris, and then Hronek got his 8 year contract, but if you take Hronek off that line Hughes has no one to play with him, so that looks like Hronek was only signed to play with Hughes.

Then who plays with Hughes? Desharnais? Myers? Juulsen? You have no solution. You just want to dismantle our top pairing to strengthen our 2nd pairing and run a test course on whether Hronek can anchor Carson Soucy I guess?

I think the plan is to find a top 4 LHD. Then at the end of the NCAA season we will have an RHD reinforcement of Willander. I do believe this is the current plan and I do think Willander is good enough to play in the NHL.

Disjointing our top and only effective pairing is not the solution right now. It's the only thing that's working.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

And that's the other factor now, Hughes is playing like 27-28 mins a game, Hronek is playing like 24-25 mins a game, they lack depth and now they're being over worked, and that could be a bad thing come playoffs if they make it. The drop after for other D is dramatic because they can't be relied on as much.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Then who plays with Hughes? Desharnais? Myers? Juulsen? You have no solution. You just want to dismantle our top pairing to strengthen our 2nd pairing and run a test course on whether Hronek can anchor Carson Soucy I guess?

I think the plan is to find a top 4 LHD. Then at the end of the NCAA season we will have an RHD reinforcement of Willander. I do believe this is the current plan and I do think Willander is good enough to play in the NHL.

Disjointing our top and only effective pairing is not the solution right now. It's the only thing that's working.

Huh? My solution was to sign 2 players at the range of 4.5-5M range, what are you not reading? My argument is about having 2 defensive lines and not just 1 defensive line, what are you not understanding? The Canucks right now have two 1st D players, and then four 3 D players. If you want to be a contender you need have a deep team key worth DEPTH, if you're relying on just 1D pair to carry you all the time that's not considered being deep.

 

[racerjoe]

Who do you play with Hughes if you move Hronek down to the 2nd line for more depth? Like I said before if you didn't sign him and Myers, that's $10.25M to sign other players, wouldn't it of been better to sign 2 other players at a range of say 4.5-5M range to give you 2 lines instead of just 1 line.

I remember Luke Schenn played with Hughes and Hughes did well with him, he also liked playing with Schenn, not saying Luke Schenn is a great overall player but he was able to play decent with him, it was when Hughes started playing with Myers it was so bad, they then went and got Hronek and it became good again. Hughes got a Norris, and then Hronek got his 8 year contract, but if you take Hronek off that line Hughes has no one to play with him, so that looks like Hronek was only signed to play with Hughes.

You are making more holes then… the issue isn’t hronek, it’s Myers.

Hronek has proven to be a top pair defender, he can play all situations, and was part of the BEST defensive pair last year. Hughes specifically asked for him to be his partner again…

If Myers and Soucy were playing like last year this team defense would actually look really good with the emergence of Branstrom, and solid depth… but Myers and Soucy have just been bad.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

You are making more holes then… the issue isn’t hronek, it’s Myers.

Hronek has proven to be a top pair defender, he can play all situations, and was part of the BEST defensive pair last year. Hughes specifically asked for him to be his partner again…

If Myers and Soucy were playing like last year this team defense would actually look really good with the emergence of Branstrom, and solid depth… but Myers and Soucy have just been bad.

Who are you going to get for 3M to replace Myers? They don't have the cap space to get someone at 5m now, unless you move someone who's taking up more of the cap space to generate more cap space to replace him.

Again in my honest opinion I feel like signing 2 guys at 4.5-5m, was a better option than signing 1 at 7.25m and one at 3m, so it was balanced out better, to give more depth, and that's exactly what they're missing.


Or just do an actual rebuild instead, something that's been needed for a long time instead of this retool after retool and having these kind of issues year after year, to not be a deep contender.

 

[tantalum]

And that's the other factor now, Hughes is playing like 27-28 mins a game, Hronek is playing like 24-25 mins a game, they lack depth and now they're being over worked, and that could be a bad thing come playoffs if they make it. The drop after for other D is dramatic because they can't be relied on as much.

Hughes is the Norris winner. He is going to play 25+ minutes a game on average. It is not atypical. Just as it’s not atypical to have another big minute d-man as well.

 

[Zippgunn]

Given that the team was outmatched, I'm relieved that they weren't caved in on the scoreboard. Hope this keep their spirits up for the upcoming 6 game road trip.

We all know what Demko contributes at his best, but I have an even better appreciation for what Boeser has meant to this team.

Demko might have stopped one of those goals, tops...

 

[Zippgunn]

Silovs: Just fine. The issue is the Canucks are going to need great if they want to get through this next stretch at .500. Lankinen has come down to earth a bit after a solid start, and the Canucks are a bottom 10 team right now with their ES 5 on 5 save percentage (semi-deflated from some blowouts). Going to need better to make sure the season doesn't spiral out of control like it did in 2022-2023.

This. Unless he instantly reverts to Vezina candidate status the return of Demko will probably not make any difference to this team. The problem is NOT goaltending.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Hughes is the Norris winner. He is going to play 25+ minutes a game on average. It is not atypical. Just as it’s not atypical to have another big minute d-man as well.

Better hope they don't burn him out playing half a game for the rest of the season

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Demko might have stopped one of those goals, tops...

Two of the goals came on seriously lucky breaks.

The breakaway goal was one of the most random accidental breakaway passes I have seen in 30 years of watching.

And the Kakko goal bounced off a foot and right onto his stick with an open net.

Sometimes those games happen.

 

[tantalum]

Better hope they don't burn him out playing half a game for the rest of the season

That's what top defensemen do and have always done....get about 25 minutes on average (some days will be higher some lower). It's not a concern.

 

[Nick Lang]

You are making more holes then… the issue isn’t hronek, it’s Myers.

Hronek has proven to be a top pair defender, he can play all situations, and was part of the BEST defensive pair last year. Hughes specifically asked for him to be his partner again…

If Myers and Soucy were playing like last year this team defense would actually look really good with the emergence of Branstrom, and solid depth… but Myers and Soucy have just been bad.

Agree. Unfortunate by product of having cap expended in the wrong places and no depth in the farm system. This is Benning's mess originally and we are now just getting out from it all but the defence has been very tricky to say the least. As @strattonius says I'm sure they're looking at a more permanent LD solution as we speak but not everything can be accomplished at once. This move might not open up until the TDL or even beyond.

Huh? My solution was to sign 2 players at the range of 4.5-5M range, what are you not reading? My argument is about having 2 defensive lines and not just 1 defensive line, what are you not understanding? The Canucks right now have two 1st D players, and then four 3 D players. If you want to be a contender you need have a deep team key worth DEPTH, if you're relying on just 1D pair to carry you all the time that's not considered being deep.

Just curious, who would these 2 players be by chance? There were not a lot of players available to us in UFA I don't think. Even though a number were technically available it looked like they had other destinations in mind. Also racerjoe is correct. Hughes has continually credited Hronek with being a very big part of his success. I don't think you can just throw Schenn guys in there and get the same results. Hughes will start regressing too. That partnership certainly has provided results so far.

 

[racerjoe]

Who are you going to get for 3M to replace Myers? They don't have the cap space to get someone at 5m now, unless you move someone who's taking up more of the cap space to generate more cap space to replace him.

Again in my honest opinion I feel like signing 2 guys at 4.5-5m, was a better option than signing 1 at 7.25m and one at 3m, so it was balanced out better, to give more depth, and that's exactly what they're missing.


Or just do an actual rebuild instead, something that's been needed for a long time instead of this retool after retool and having these kind of issues year after year, to not be a deep contender.

@Nick Lang says it pretty well, who knows, and it’s probably also going to be an in season fix. I don’t think this defense is in its final form for this season, much like last year.

I would have looked to trade hogs, and taken some of that money, maybe then kept pods as depth.

Who would you have picked up instead of signing Hronek?

 

[MS]

Two of the goals came on seriously lucky breaks.

The breakaway goal was one of the most random accidental breakaway passes I have seen in 30 years of watching.

And the Kakko goal bounced off a foot and right onto his stick with an open net.

Sometimes those games happen.

Conversely they missed a couple wide-open looks they should have scored on. Lafreniere had an entire net to shoot at in the 1st period and shot it out of play somehow.

Their PP had us under all kinds of pressure and it was a minor miracle they didn't convert.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

That's what top defensemen do and have always done....get about 25 minutes on average (some days will be higher some lower). It's not a concern.

Someone noticed he looked gassed last game, so I guess not a concern though, ok.

 

[tantalum]

Someone noticed he looked gassed last game, so I guess not a concern though, ok.

Well if someone noticed a hockey player might be tired it must be an issue. Despite it not being an issue with every excellent #1 D-man in recent history of the league.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Just curious, who would these 2 players be by chance? There were not a lot of players available to us in UFA I don't think. Even though a number were technically available it looked like they had other destinations in mind. Also racerjoe is correct. Hughes has continually credited Hronek with being a very big part of his success. I don't think you can just throw Schenn guys in there and get the same results. Hughes will start regressing too. That partnership certainly has provided results so far.

@racerjoe I'll tag you since you ask who as well.


I'm just going to post what I wrote in the off season and what I wanted Canucks to do. 2 of the guys are going to upset people, obviously 1 of mine is already upsetting some here, but I don't care this is what I wanted, which was more depth on this team.

Trade Pettersson, trade Hronek, trade or buy out Mikheyev, let Myers walk, let Cole walk. Sign Guentzel, sign Tanev or Pesce, sign Zadorov, sign Lindholm, sign Joshua, sign Silovs. Duchene would be a decent option at a good price as well if available.