Post-Game Talk: GM17 | Canucks lose to Rangers | 3-4 (Hughes, Sherwood, & Garland) | Walking Wounded

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

Not horrible overpayment, but yeah you get it.

He's being paid almost the same as Quinn Hughes is, it's like a 600K difference and he's not at Quinn Hughes level. I understand RD are more valuable, but I didn't think he was worth that much. And I think that's what was getting me a little confused here, I was over valuing him due to what he signed for thinking he was better and forgetting I thought he was over paid, hence why I catch your drift, thanks for reminding me.

 

[David71]

Scores a goal then off to deliver his own baby. Garland is awesome.

just a 5min drive depending on which hospital vgh or st pauls.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

He's being paid almost the same as Quinn Hughes is, it's like a 600K difference and he's not at Quinn Hughes level. I understand RD are more valuable, but I didn't think he was worth that much. And I think that's what was getting me a little confused here, I was over valuing him due to what he signed for thinking he was better and forgetting I thought he was over paid, hence why I catch your drift, thanks for reminding me.

I added more to my post that's back there on the last page now,

Yeah. Like long run it's not bad, cap-wise, but for one singular year, it is, but you see with us papering guys up and down we are scrounging every last cent against the cap. The management team knows what it needs to do, clearly. They are communicating that to the fan base implicitly by papering guys this way. I hope their target is correct.

 

[David71]

I truly think we need to make a trade here sooner than later, especially with all the depth problems and injuries as well

sooner or later its gonna catch up to them. even their road record is good 5-1 but this upcoming 5 gamer is no slouch. i can see them going 2-2-1 or 3-1-1

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

And honestly, last year with the system we used there were a ton of guys we bled value from a stone. I thought a strategy we could have used in the offseason is signing a bunch of low-risk, high-reward deals and see who fits that system and sell off the guys who don't ASAP like with Sprong.

 

[EpochLink]

Considering what happened today, they played well.
The defense is bowling shoe ugly.

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I added more to my post that's back there on the last page now,

Yeah. Like long run it's not bad, cap-wise, but for one singular year, it is, but you see with us papering guys up and down we are scrounging every last cent against the cap. The management team knows what it needs to do, clearly. They are communicating that to the fan base implicitly by papering guys this way. I hope their target is correct.

I saw that after cheers.

But they signed him for 8 years, they committed long term, if it was for 1 year maybe could accept it a bit more, but then again you're still stuck without having depth on D and just basically having 1D line and 2 3D lines, it's not good enough.

I really wish they tanked for Bedard 2 years ago when things weren't going great, instead of trying to get moral victories for no reason to be higher up in the draft, maybe some of these problems with spending to the cap to try and fill spots wouldn't of been as bad as well. I feel they missed a good opportunity to get a good draft pick when they weren't even trying to do that for that year.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I saw that after cheers.

But they signed him for 8 years, they committed long term, if it was for 1 year maybe could accept it a bit more, but then again you're still stuck without having depth on D and just basically having 1D line and 2 3D lines, it's not good enough.

I really wish they tanked for Bedard 2 years ago when things weren't going great, instead of trying to get moral victories for no reason to be higher up in the draft, maybe some of these problems with spending to the cap to try and fill spots wouldn't of been as bad as well. I feel they missed a good opportunity to get a good draft pick when they weren't even trying to do that for that year.

I agree on Bedard, but I can't say for certain you tank the end of the 2023 campaign and come in to TC with the same vibes as we did last season. You can't measure vibes, but they are certainly there and have an impact. No vibes, no playoffs and the playoffs honestly refreshed my faith in this fanbase a bit.

 

[David71]

lets play devils advocate here. rewind back to july 1st. had vancouver NOT resigned tyler myers, and not get forbort/VD. Who do you think would they have gotten?. there were some names that were nice to have but probbaly too expensive to sign. i.e montour, walker. branstrom would have been one for sure. so you add another puckmover. now 3 more slots. for example:

hughes/hronek
brady skeji/matt roy
soucy/cheaper rhd.
juulssen this one seems better than the one being iced every single game.

here is the 2024 free agent class

Top NHL free agent defensemen: Montour among best | NHL.com

Gostisbehere, Ekman-Larsson, Skjei also available

www.nhl.com

 

[ChuckNorris4Cup]

I agree on Bedard, but I can't say for certain you tank the end of the 2023 campaign and come in to TC with the same vibes as we did last season. You can't measure vibes, but they are certainly there and have an impact. No vibes, no playoffs and the playoffs honestly refreshed my faith in this fanbase a bit.

But that's the thing no one was expecting them to do what they did last year, every sports analyst had them as a bubble team at best and a lot of people in general did as well, and this is why I wrote to someone else I believe they overachieved possibly last year.

lets play devils advocate here. rewind back to july 1st. had vancouver NOT resigned tyler myers, and not get forbort/VD. Who do you think would they have gotten?. there were some names that were nice to have but probbaly too expensive to sign. i.e montour, walker. branstrom would have been one for sure. so you add another puckmover. now 3 more slots. for example:

hughes/hronek
branstrom/walker
soucy/cheaper rhd.
juulssen this one seems better than the one being iced every single game.

I wanted Hronek gone and Myers gone, resign Zadorov and sign Tanev or Pesce.

I didn't want these two comments together grrr.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Good post David. I'm unsure who they would have targeted, here's who I would have taken more than just a cursory glance, i.e. due diligence on because they've stood out to me:

- Montour, Martinez, Roy, Zaddy, Skjei($$$?), Grzelcyk, Dillon, Ghostbear, Brodie, Beam, Brannstrom (lol)
- Toffoli, Marchessault ($$$?), Duhaime, Arvidsson, Skinner, Sherwood (CALL MADE), Heinen (ironically), Lindholm, Barre-Boulet, Noesen, Lomberg, Wennberg, Aston-Reese, Girgensons

Do your due diligence, identify what traits your system demands, what areas your system could be weak, trust your scouting department that you've hired personally to give you the information you need to make a decision and treat these players like what they are but you can never tell them this - they are stocks. Which ones are going up, down, where is their value headed, do a background comprehensively.

Make your bid on the price point you can, then we can discuss negotiation tactics further but I'd have to know more about the inner workings of the show because part of the reason free agency is so crazy is because 32 NHL GMs have plans for their teams and are desparetely trying to secure those plans. Some teams have higher tolerancy for overbidding than others.

($$$?) - My highest offer would have been outbid.

I'm an eye test guy and there are 1200 NHL games each year. There isn't a human being alive who can watch all those games and have a healthy life. You do have to rely on advanced stats to some extent.

 

[bossram]

lets play devils advocate here. rewind back to july 1st. had vancouver NOT resigned tyler myers, and not get forbort/VD. Who do you think would they have gotten?. there were some names that were nice to have but probbaly too expensive to sign. i.e montour, walker. branstrom would have been one for sure. so you add another puckmover. now 3 more slots. for example:

hughes/hronek
brady skeji/matt roy
soucy/cheaper rhd.
juulssen this one seems better than the one being iced every single game.

here is the 2024 free agent class

Top NHL free agent defensemen: Montour among best | NHL.com

Gostisbehere, Ekman-Larsson, Skjei also available

www.nhl.com

Walker and Matt Roy would have been the only ones of interest personally, but I don't think they ever had any real chance of signing here. Certainly they are massively better players than Myers.

 

[OilerTitanFan]

just a 5min drive depending on which hospital vgh or st pauls.

Maybe children's hospital on oak and 28th.

 

[the big nobody]

It's extremely unlikely this team will be able to do any better than .500 without J.T. Miller, Brock Boeser, and Thatcher Demko. Of course, both Boeser and Miller could be back soon, and hopefully they will, circumstances permitting. That just leaves Demko who seems to be perpetually 3-4 weeks away.

 

[rypper]

It's extremely unlikely this team will be able to do any better than .500 without J.T. Miller, Brock Boeser, and Thatcher Demko. Of course, both Boeser and Miller could be back soon, and hopefully they will, circumstances permitting. That just leaves Demko who seems to be perpetually 3-4 weeks away.

Hey now, Darren Dreger said Demko's return is imminent.

But he does seem to be perpetually just a little further around the bend...

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Like most, I really respected the effort last night. With a lot of holes on the roster, they battled until the end and I can handle losing games like that.

Silovs wasn’t perfect, but certainly wasn’t poor like he was in his first few starts. A few good showings in a row is hopefully something he can build off of. The sequence with no blocker was some mind numbingly dumb shit from the officials, who were trying to show all night that lobotomy patients can be refs too.

Petey and Sherwood were excellent again. What an acquisition Sherwood has been. If DeBrusk could get going, that line could be even more dominant.

Garland was far and away the stand out player on his line, and should have drawn three or four more penalties than he did. Suter had a strong night, and Joshua was quicker to the puck and stronger on it, too. Hopefully it’s coming together for him.

Arshdeep Bains had a solid game. Hoglander is in one right now. Just no confidence, passing up the puck when he should shoot, and shooting when there’s no lane. Raty struggled to keep pace.

You hope Allvin can figure out a long term fit for our back end because this isn’t it. Myers and Soucy are underwater on every shift. Hughes and Hronek are doing Herculean work to carry the back end, but they need some help.

Hopefully with Boeser skating and Demko’s return being imminent, the team gets a shot in the arm.

 

[strattonius]

I thought we looked good just a little less connected in the offensive zone compared to the Rangers.

Garland, Pettersson, Joshua were our best players.

 

[tantalum]

He's being paid almost the same as Quinn Hughes is, it's like a 600K difference and he's not at Quinn Hughes level. I understand RD are more valuable, but I didn't think he was worth that much. And I think that's what was getting me a little confused here, I was over valuing him due to what he signed for thinking he was better and forgetting I thought he was over paid, hence why I catch your drift, thanks for reminding me.

Ya but Hughes is underpaid for what he brings to the game. He continually shows he is a top 5 D-man in the world. He should be in the 9+ mil range at a bare minimum. Likely the 10-12 range.

 

[ManVanFan]

I thought we looked good just a little less connected in the offensive zone compared to the Rangers.

Garland, Pettersson, Joshua were our best players.

They are finally showing the returns from winning draft lotto and being absolute shit. Will Cuylle pretty good find for the Rangers scouts.

 

[tantalum]

Hey now, Darren Dreger said Demko's return is imminent.

As I said a few days ago....just like nuclear fusion.

 

[orcatown]

Just when I stated in the game thread that my power may soon be off, it, of course, was. Given the conditions around here, you have to give it up for those that go out in these storms and clear roads, unclog drains and haul trees off power to get the lights back on.

Missed the third but saw enough to establish that Garland is our top forward right now. Almost makes the OEL trade worth it, if it wasn't for the murderous cap ramifications.

Sherwood once again was playing excellent.

Hughes was outstanding and, in general, the team played with heart and hung in well.

One player that I didn't like, again, was Hoglander. Just so out of position in so many situations. So often he'll err on the side of scoring and leave himself unable to get back on defense. Several times, he was lingering deep and around the goal when puck was being fought for near the blue line. When the puck went back toward our zone he was left two zones behind the play. Just puts himself in dreadful position to get back in transition and that, combined with his lack of overall speed, takes him out of the play and leads to odd man rushes against.

The Miller situation reminds you that these players our humans and are trying to do their best. It also makes us (and maybe especially me) realize that in our commentaries that any of our criticisms should be tempered in terms of any sort of personnal attack. Saying the player is trash or slurring the player in some other way, may relieve some anger or frustration. but is often overly creul and mindless.

I think talking about what the player is actually doing or not doing should be fair game but personnal attacks should be avoided and hopefully I and others will remember this.

 

[MS]

He's being paid almost the same as Quinn Hughes is, it's like a 600K difference and he's not at Quinn Hughes level. I understand RD are more valuable, but I didn't think he was worth that much. And I think that's what was getting me a little confused here, I was over valuing him due to what he signed for thinking he was better and forgetting I thought he was over paid, hence why I catch your drift, thanks for reminding me.

This isn't because Hronek is overpaid, it's because Hughes is a $13 million player getting paid $8 million.

 

[tantalum]

I think talking about what the player is actually doing or not doing should be fair game but personnal attacks should be avoided and hopefully I and others will remember this.

Indeed.

And even further the number of times I've seen comments of Miller being mentally weak/fragile and why this roster won't ever win anything is frankly disgusting. Yes they are elite athletes but all that means is that they are simply very good at what they do compared to the rest of the population. There are people on this board that have a similar "rank" in their field of expertise. Elite does not mean not human. It does not mean that everyday things don't affect your performance. To think a pro athlete is immune to such things is nonsense.

Heck look at the opposite case last night...Garland. A guy on no sleep amped up about becoming a father had perhaps his best game as a canuck and was the best forward on the ice for both teams.

 

[ManVanFan]

Are the Canucks coaching staff just average? Was Tocchet out coached again?

 

[MS]

Are the Canucks coaching staff just average? Was Tocchet out coached again?

We played a top-3 team in the NHL without 3 of our top 5 players and our 3rd string goalie in net, and it was pretty even.