Post-Game Talk: GM15 | Canucks lose to Islanders | 2-5 (Lekkerimaki & Myers) | No Effort, No Win

[Rick Rocket]

We didn't try it at all until now...

Ya true, there was just such a long period of time where he would hesitate and shift position laterally... stop the one timer pass and just pass it back. Was nice to see he was firing them off confidently

 

[Bleach Clean]

the canucks were bad but the reffing tonight was absolutely atrocious. they actually played well up until the softer than baby shit call on lekk, which seemed to take the wind out of their sails. this effort is still probably a one-off and better teams don't let nonsense like that affect them, but it's still frustrating.

if this system keeps falling flat, tocchet needs to revert to last year. whatever it was is the identity of the team and the players they signed (forbort, desharnais, myers, soucy) probably excel there.

They probably do, but it could cost them their ceiling. Tocchet made a necessary decision to alter the system to allow for more rush chances, and now they're caught in the middle between styles. It's ugly.

IMO, best to stay the course and get the team to adjust in full. Go through the growing pains now. And if they find that the personnel on the back end don't facilitate this new style of game, change them out.

I think the forwards haven't figured out the balance between helping their defense and rushing forward. It's made more complex by the defenders that can't move the puck anyway.

 

[Rick Rocket]

Concerning game. This is now 3 really poor efforts in the last 7 games. Just looked totally unprepared, all kinds of mental mistakes, zero intensity until the 3rd period. Awful performance.

Lekkerimaki was good and is one of the few guys to escape criticism.

Entire blueline was terrible except for maybe Brannstrom. About as bad as you'll see Hughes play. Hronek with his worst game of the year and holy f*** does he need to do a better job of getting the puck to the net in shooting positions.

Myers-Souray was a disaster. I thought they had been better in the last 3-4 games but they got eviscerated tonight. Myers was just f***ing terrible all game, terrible decisions, terrible positioning, terrible compete ... and then ironically of course he scores. We need another quality D like, yesterday.

JT Miller had zero legs tonight and was awful tracking the play back. Not good enough.

Pettersson was a ghost in the first 40 minutes but to his credit he was one of the guys who did show up in the 3rd.

Even the Sherwood-Blueger-Heinen line wasn't very good tonight for the first time all year.

Hoglander is going to be traded, unless his awful-looking new contract has destroyed his value. Another poor defensive game. If he isn't competing at 110% of the guys around him, he isn't very good.

Joshua was about as expected. A couple good moments, legs did not look in mid-season form.

Lankinen was fine and this game could have been worse without him,

Can you imagine if we didn't end up with Brannstrom? Jesus Christ

 

[the big nobody]

Of course Tyler Myers of all people scored a pointless last-minute goal. Who else would it be?

 

[VintageBure]

If you told me before the game that lekkermaki would score and that we would get blown out on home ice I would have actually believed you

 

[DFAC]

Anybody blaming Rick right now is completely out to lunch, he’s one of the big reasons this team even has high expectations, he’s one of the best coaches in the NHL

Tocchet has to shoulder some of the blame though - time out shouldve been called today after the 3rd NY goal. He consistently puts the lines in a blender at the first sign of trouble. And although the PP isn’t directly under his control, it’s been so bad and they’ve barely changed anything. There’s no way our PP should be THIS bad with our personnel

I feel like last year he pushed all the right buttons and this year it’s more of the opposite.

(I don’t know what the answers are to fix this team)

 

[Leif Rohlin]

They probably do, but it could cost them their ceiling. Tocchet made a necessary decision to alter the system to allow for more rush chances, and now they're caught in the middle between styles. It's ugly.

IMO, best to stay the course and get the team to adjust in full. Go through the growing pains now. And if they find that the personnel on the back end don't facilitate this new style of game, change them out.

I think the forwards haven't figured out the balance between helping their defense and rushing forward. It's made more complex by the defenders that can't move the puck anyway.

I think this is pretty accurate. It's frustrating to watch (I turned this one off at 3-1) but could be a good thing to have some ugly losses early so the issues can be corrected.

Even last game, it was a decent bounce-back and a big positive for Petey, but I didn't like our game that much overall and thought it easily could have been a loss against a better opponent. Was mildly concerned with how positive Tocchet sounded after the game, and now here we are lol.

We're definitely not alone here if you look around the league. The Oilers have looked awful in a bunch of their games, Avs have been inconsistent and are giving up a ton of goals, and the Bruins are just a mess.

I'm pretty confident in this team overall but there are some concerning signs, even going back to the playoffs where the whole team seemed to just completely lack intensity and focus for long stretches of play.

 

[David71]

Anybody blaming Rick right now is completely out to lunch, he’s one of the big reasons this team even has high expectations, he’s one of the best coaches in the NHL

but his decisions are still baffling. what happened between this years team and last years was night/day. they came out of october winning at least 10-15games to get a good cushion in terms of points. everyone firing on all cylinders. this years team lots of depth defense got weaker. no demko. lankien is keeping them in the games. silovs cannot be trusted as backup yet therefore you see lanks starting every 2 games. SO What is wrong?

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[VanJack]

As the old saying goes, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. They can try to pretend that Soucy and Myers are a 3-4 d-pairing. But they're whistling past the graveyard.

They aren't, and never will be. But they're stuck with Hughes-Hronek as their No. 1 d-pairing, with a lot of other 5-6-7 guys to mix and match. And you can't play Hughes and Hronek 25-30 minutes a night.

So no easy fixes for Allvin. They're going to have to stumble along during the regular season and hope they can plug the gaping holes at the TDL.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

They're two defencemen (ideally three), a top 6 forward, and a starting goaltender away from contending. I don't think that is a gap that can be overcome this season.

Can you imagine if we didn't end up with Brannstrom? Jesus Christ

They essentially stumbled around piss drunk and fell backwards into found money with that one.

 

[F A N]

They probably do, but it could cost them their ceiling. Tocchet made a necessary decision to alter the system to allow for more rush chances, and now they're caught in the middle between styles. It's ugly.

IMO, best to stay the course and get the team to adjust in full. Go through the growing pains now. And if they find that the personnel on the back end don't facilitate this new style of game, change them out.

I think the forwards haven't figured out the balance between helping their defense and rushing forward. It's made more complex by the defenders that can't move the puck anyway.

I think pretty much all of us here thought that our D got worse especially in the puck moving department. I think in terms of generating rush chances, there’s not much a coach can do without the right personnel aside from having the forwards cheat all the time.

Personally I think the team is better off catering to the talents we have on the back rather than force a system that they can’t execute. Of course if we can upgrade our D that’s great but it’s hard performing surgery in season.

 

[rypper]

I suspect the team looks exponentially better with another top 4 defender. Top 4 but a player to would really define as top 3.

Gives you the option to minimize Soucy and/or Myers. The second pairing has been dragging the team down all season, and I was I fan of it in the playoffs but what the hell happened?

It'll have an effect up and down the lineup. Push guys into more appropriate roles. Take some minutes off the top pair. Help Lankinen. Hopefully give the forwards a quick up option over ringing it around the boards or whatever anyone not named Hughes or Hronek are doing.

But it's basically Christmas season and top 4 defenders are turbo-man, or whatever the hot toy of the season is. That 25' first is already sold.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I suspect the team looks exponentially better with another top 4 defender. Top 4 but a player to would really define as top 3.

Gives you the option to minimize Soucy and/or Myers. The second pairing has been dragging the team down all season, and I was I fan of it in the playoffs but what the hell happened?

It'll have an effect up and down the lineup. Push guys into more appropriate roles. Take some minutes off the top pair. Help Lankinen. Hopefully give the forwards a quick up option over ringing it around the boards or whatever anyone not named Hughes or Hronek are doing.

But it's basically Christmas season and top 4 defenders are turbo-man, or whatever the hot toy of the season is. That 25' first is already sold.

JAMIE, AH NEED DA TURBO MANNNNN

 

[Hodgy]

The Canucks have committed to contending over the next three years or so. It’s too late to try to and switch our plan.

The real positive is that while this team hasn’t been good to start the year we are lucky to have had an easy schedule and accumulated enough points so that we are not out of it. And we at least know that the team is capable of playing much better.

And given the above, I think we absolutely will see at least one significant defensemen acquired. I think it was less likely that we’d see a pure rental this year anyways but if we continue playing like this then a rental is even less likely as the team will be targeting defensemen with team control.

With all that said, there is a strong reality that last year was this team’s peak. This was always the risk of trying to compete now and forego a proper rebuild.

 

[Nick Lang]

Tocchet has to shoulder some of the blame though - time out shouldve been called today after the 3rd NY goal. He consistently puts the lines in a blender at the first sign of trouble. And although the PP isn’t directly under his control, it’s been so bad and they’ve barely changed anything. There’s no way our PP should be THIS bad with our personnel

I feel like last year he pushed all the right buttons and this year it’s more of the opposite.

(I don’t know what the answers are to fix this team)

I think the real big thing is they have to realize they're not Gods and maybe the coaches need some help. Especially the PP, it's painfully obvious they need someone who knows what the hell they're doing but their heads are so far up their own butts RT actually says the coaching is fine and it's the players. Big disconnect.

 

[brock hughes007]

As the old saying goes, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers. They can try to pretend that Soucy and Myers are a 3-4 d-pairing. But they're whistling past the graveyard.

They aren't, and never will be. But they're stuck with Hughes-Hronek as their No. 1 d-pairing, with a lot of other 5-6-7 guys to mix and match. And you can't play Hughes and Hronek 25-30 minutes a night.

So no easy fixes for Allvin. They're going to have to stumble along during the regular season and hope they can plug the gaping holes at the TDL.

Last season we had Demko for most of the year.We had everyone firing on all cylinders.Yeah the loss of Demko has been huge.but Lankinen has been great.
I am at a loss to figure out what is wrong with this team.Is anyone gonna step up to the plate and lead on a nightly bases.Seems like we have to many passengers.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

 

[Breakers]

40 minutes
5 shots
1 of those shots from center


Brutal

 

[Jyrki]

Trying to figure out why the team is not as intense in their execution as compared to last year.

Could it be that they realized a bit of burnout by the time they made the playoffs? Is it possible that they're conserving their energy, thinking that they're talented enough to succeed?

And/or, do they love playing in Vancouver so much, that they get the yips knowing that opposition scouts are watching and they have a trigger-happy management? (They were playing rather well just before Sprong was traded).

In Vancouver, it can feel like TDL every Friday.

There's a roster construction problem. We went into the season with only one pairing that can reliably move the puck out and another one that you know wouldn't be able to do it at all. Plus, we've got to be one of the slowest teams in the league. If the D can't move up the puck fast enough then the forwards have to be good at providing support on the transition and I don't think we the players for that up and down the lineup. Too many forwards that are a combination of slow, soft and/or low IQ.

Bringing on board Sprong/Heinen/Desharnais/Forbort and extending Hoglander does makes me question the alignment of pro scouting with Tocchet. And I guess Raty being slow as shit and Bains just not catching up to NHL speed doesn't help either.

 

[bossram]

I suspect the team looks exponentially better with another top 4 defender. Top 4 but a player to would really define as top 3.

Gives you the option to minimize Soucy and/or Myers. The second pairing has been dragging the team down all season, and I was I fan of it in the playoffs but what the hell happened?

It'll have an effect up and down the lineup. Push guys into more appropriate roles. Take some minutes off the top pair. Help Lankinen. Hopefully give the forwards a quick up option over ringing it around the boards or whatever anyone not named Hughes or Hronek are doing.

But it's basically Christmas season and top 4 defenders are turbo-man, or whatever the hot toy of the season is. That 25' first is already sold.

Yeah, I think the raising the floor of the team (by having a second pair that isn't a disaster) would make a lot of these games where they look terrible, become at least passable.

Myers must have incriminating evidence against Allvin to have got a 3 year deal. It's ugly.

In the short-term, Tocc needs to elevate Brannstrom's minutes. I know Tocc and Allvin don't value him that highly, but holy hell he's obviously been their 3rd best defenseman since they brought him up. Last night he was clearly their best defenseman out there and still only played 15 minutes.

I'm still not concerned about the forward group. If Joshua can get up to speed and Boeser comes back, they're in a good spot.

But Tocc clearly doesn't have the golden touch this season.

 

[calnuck]

It’s ironic to me that

Yeah, I think the raising the floor of the team (by having a second pair that isn't a disaster) would make a lot of these games where they look terrible, become at least passable.

Myers must have incriminating evidence against Allvin to have got a 3 year deal. It's ugly.

In the short-term, Tocc needs to elevate Brannstrom's minutes. I know Tocc and Allvin don't value him that highly, but holy hell he's obviously been their 3rd best defenseman since they brought him up. Last night he was clearly their best defenseman out there and still only played 15 minutes.

I'm still not concerned about the forward group. If Joshua can get up to speed and Boeser comes back, they're in a good spot.

But Tocc clearly doesn't have the golden touch this season.

I think it’s becoming clear that this roster as a whole, not including guys like Miller, just aren’t the type of players to play the way he wants. He was great last year because the team was chaotic and still feeling the fallout of the Benning regime. Now that Allvin and Rutherford have steadied the ship I almost feel like, ironically, a coach like Boudreau would fit the team better now that the structure and discipline in play is more entrenched and the roster is more mature

 

[credulous]

There's a roster construction problem. We went into the season with only one pairing that can reliably move the puck out and another one that you know wouldn't be able to do it at all. Plus, we've got to be one of the slowest teams in the league. If the D can't move up the puck fast enough then the forwards have to be good at providing support on the transition and I don't think we the players for that up and down the lineup. Too many forwards that are a combination of slow, soft and/or low IQ.

usually when a team is slow they have a lot of effective size and are good on the boards but vancouver's forward group is slow, small and bad on the boards. joshua, boeser and sometimes miller are the only forwards that really use their size effectively. i don't think that means you have to jettison a player like garland for being small but you can only support so many of those types of players

 

[Regress2TheMeme]

I think what Ian Cole brought to the team last year was quite underrated. He had a tough series agaisnt the Oilers (some of which was just bad luck) but he really did good work around the crease. He was also a well spoken vet that had the presence of a leader. The defense looks awful with Soucey and Myers having to be the clear cut 2nd pairing.

 

[Hodgy]

I think what Ian Cole brought to the team last year was quite underrated. He had a tough series agaisnt the Oilers (some of which was just bad luck) but he really did good work around the crease. He was also a well spoken vet that had the presence of a leader. The defense looks awful with Soucey and Myers having to be the clear cut 2nd pairing.

For sure. There is a massive difference in terms of reliability in terms of Cole vs. Desharnais or even Forbot.