Post-Game Talk: GM06 | Vancouver Canucks defeat Chicago Blackhawks | 6-3 (Heinen(2), Miller, Garland, Boeser, & Suter) | Good Hockey Team

strattonius

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
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Surrey, BC
Sure. Like a Bugatti and a Civic are comparable because both might happen to be yellow.

They both have engines, lights, seats and sometimes passengers. They're actually more similar than they are different.

It's really not that difficult a concept to understand that certain players are stylistically comparable. In that case Hughes and Brannstrom are in the same bucket. No one is saying their skill level is comparable.
 

Jerry the great

Registered User
Jul 8, 2022
880
885
Sherwood vs Stamkos update. Predators won 4-0 for the first win of the season. However, Stamkos didn't register a stat other than 2 shots on goal in nearly 19 minutes of ice time. The guy they let go finished with 2 assists, +2, 3 shots on net, and 12 hits in only 15 minutes of ice time.
oh let's track Lindholm vs Blueger too. Not as slanted but TB has more ESP, better PK #s, wayyyyy better shot differentials and costs less than a quarter on the dollar for ~158 million fewer seconds. Outside of the 3pt game vs Montreal Lindholm has been muy no bueno.
 

Regress2TheMeme

Registered User
Mar 14, 2018
1,209
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Having Bleuger continue to anchor a solid third line without Joshua and Garland is a big deal. I hope they can keep that up and that Heinen doesn't pull a Kuzmenko and rack up goals against the Hawks and Sharks while going cold against real NHL teams. He needs to build off this game.

Definitly encouraging play from Pettersson. He's getting to the middle of the ice better now and starting to find some chemistry with Garland. Having another guy that can carry the puck and make a pass will do wonders for Pettersson as it makes it harder for teams to collapse on him. Pettersson is probably the kind of star that is least capable of doing it all on his own. He needs to have decent players to play with that can fiinish off some plays. He will set you up!
 
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PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
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Hard to say, really. He's essentially been a career backup but a surprisingly good one that seems to have gone under the radar. I think we could offer him a fairly big role as a platoon with Demko given the latter's injury concerns.

Of course, this does leave Silovs out of the loop but I think he needs another season in the AHL.
The entire point in the interview linked from hs.fi was that he wanted to play for a team where he would get to play enough and try to up his stock as a potential starter.

That is why he took less money and came to here.

Having Bleuger continue to anchor a solid third line without Joshua and Garland is a big deal. I hope they can keep that up and that Heinen doesn't pull a Kuzmenko and rack up goals against the Hawks and Sharks while going cold against real NHL teams. He needs to build off this game.

Definitly encouraging play from Pettersson. He's getting to the middle of the ice better now and starting to find some chemistry with Garland. Having another guy that can carry the puck and make a pass will do wonders for Pettersson as it makes it harder for teams to collapse on him. Pettersson is probably the kind of star that is least capable of doing it all on his own. He needs to have decent players to play with that can fiinish off some plays. He will set you up!
This has not been the case so far. People have short memories.
 

Regal

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Mar 12, 2010
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I know the hope was to build cap space to make a deadline deal for a defenseman but I’m starting to wonder if they might need to move Soucy out and replace him with an upgrade so the cap difference isn’t so big. Obviously it’d be ideal to move him or Myers down, but I’m not sure if they can wait unless he gets it together. As well as he played last year he’s never really been a consistent second pair guy.
 

1440

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Feb 20, 2013
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We are so PDO.

Myers-Soucy pair is really struggling. Myers' skating is definitely still affected by the knee injury but Soucy hasn't been sharp on a lot of plays either.

Brannstrom-Desharnais is still a work in progress but man that pair looks so much better with a guy who can actually skate and move the puck. I've seen a few mistakes from Brannstrom but overall pretty happy with how he's fit in. Amazing that we managed to dump the Poolman contract and get an acutal asset back.

Never understood why people seemed to be down on Heinen. This is exactly what he does - smart player who reads his linemates well, understands how to support the puck and has the hands to finish and make plays around the net.

As others have said, we were really sloppy tonight, got a bit lucky and holy f*** did we strike gold with Lankinen. After the first 5-10 minutes this had the look of one of those dumb outlier games that ends up 8-6 or something.


I would say it's not a maybe. He's literally a cheat code.

This is probably a little tongue in cheek, but the Canucks are doing the exact same thing as last year.
The basic premise is that they are selective with shots (every team [except the Canes] does this to a certain extent now - there has been some interesting commentary on the rise in average shooting percentage over the last couple of years). The basic premise as that you want the goalie to be moving before you shoot. The Canucks also try to take a lot of point shots just wide of the net timed with forwards crashing so that the goalie is lined up to the point shot but the deflection comes from an acute angle. It results in fewer shots on net, but a higher xG per shot.

Last night's game was one of the better examples of it that I have seen though.
  1. Heinen goal. Extra pass from Blueger even though he had a shooting opportunity after a cross-crease pass. Almost looked like too many passes, which can be the downside of the approach.
  2. Miller goal. PP point shot with 2 layers of screen. Open net.
  3. Heinen goal 2. Shot intentionally wide for the tip. Open net.
  4. Garland goal. Extra pass from EP. Open net.
  5. Boeser goal. High tip on the PP. Mrazek is moving. Open net.
  6. Suter goal. Shot intentionally wide for the tip. Open net. Certainly some luck factors into this one on the bounce to Suter.
Money puck had these as 0.2, 0.88, 0.09, 0.14, 0.56, 0.33 xG = 2.2 xG total. They probably have some sort of PP factor because the Miller and Boeser goals were the most difficult of the bunch yet got the highest xG ratings. Considering just the shots that the remaining 4 had, they are all >50% to be goals, since Mrazek is either partially or completely out of position. Suter's in particular is an empty net tap in. These 6 opportunities are probably collectively worth something like 4 xG alone in a model which accounts for goalie positioning. Consider that the Canucks produced an additional 1.3 xG in this game they really weren't outshooting their xG as much as it might seem.

The Hawks had some good looks for sure, but on the defensive side the reverse is true. The Canucks generally concede shots where the goalie is set (even from relatively close-in) if it means preventing pre-shot movement and rebounds.

If they continue to outperform PDO, at a certain point we can't just keep screaming "regression!" and should actually look at it as a pattern and try to explain why it is happening.
 

Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
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Having a look at some of the data this morning, the Soucy-Myers pair might be getting a bit of a bad rap. They are basically being put on the ice on almost all defensive zone faceoffs, and are being matched against tough competition.

You'd like that pair to be doing better in those minutes, but hardly fair to expect them to be dominating.
 

Regress2TheMeme

Registered User
Mar 14, 2018
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The bolded part.

EP has been able to produce with pretty awful wingers.

He played with Miller and Boeser quite a bit early on. Kuzmenko was offensively talented and Mikheyev, while not amazing was fairly productive 5 on 5 unit the wheels fell off. Having someone that can give and go, find open ice and covert looks will do wonders for Pettersson because he's not capable of overwhelming a defense with just skating and power. If the team tries to use him as a depth center with poor wingers he's going to struggle more than Crosby, McDavid, Matthews, etc.
 

Bojack Horvatman

IAMGROOT
Jun 15, 2016
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So glad we have him for another 2 years. Dudes a rock that gives a stabilizing presence on the 3rd line this team has lacked since the Gillis era

I think you are forgetting how foundational Brandon Sutter was
One of those games where the score probably flatters us - Chicago is absolute crap but we were really sloppy defensively and without some big saves we could have let them back in this game.

Best Canuck was probably Teddy Blueger who was just terrific both ways and is playing his best hockey as a Canuck and doing it without Garland or Joshua. That whole line was excellent - Sherwood looks like an absolute steal, hit everything that moved again and could have had 3 or 4 points. Nice for Heinen to get his first couple goals - not an exciting player but a very intelligent one who is in the right places at the right times.

JT Miller gutted out a 3-point game when he probably shouldn't have been playing. Great character stuff.

Elias Pettersson was pretty good. Had his tail up at times and was in good positions on the ice, showed a few flashes of confident play. Execution still not amazing. But this is palatable even without much production - you can at least see effort and positive body language.

Jake Debrusk had a quiet game - needs a goal.

Thought Bains was fine and I'm still so confused about the hate for a young guy getting an opportunity who is doing OK.

Hughes-Hronek were ho-hum dominant.

Really rough game for Soucy-Myers. They're having to play more consistently high-leverage minutes as the team tries to hide the 3rd pairing and are having a struggle right now. Soucy doesn't look as sharp as last year and Myers probably isn't 100% after his knee tweak a few games ago.

Brannstrom had a couple 'oops' moments but was mostly good again, picked up an assist.

Lankinen was excellent again. Looks like a legit above-average #1 right now.

2 of the 3 PPs tonight were really good and featured lots of quality movement and less standing around ... and shockingly they got results.

Connor Bedard is very dangerous with the puck on his stick ... and then Chicago loses possession and they're playing a tiny little WHLer making little effort to get back in the play. Chicago is so weak on structure down the middle with this player playing so much.

I really liked that Pettersson went to the net to win the puck and set up Garland for the goal. Hopefully we see more of that.

I don't even really blame Bedard for that either.

1) Chicago tanked and have absolutely nobody else on the horizon to be 1c. Asking a smallish 18-19 year old to be a 1c on bad team is not setting them up for success. He should be a winger like Patrick Kane as you said before. Less defensive responsibility. Plus Patrick Kane wasn't an elite defensive player but was really smart and fast and was excellent at reading plays and using his speed to break up passes. Then he was so dangerous in the counter-attack. I think Bedard could do the same. But Chicago has no one else who could be 1c on the team or in the system so he will probably be square pegged for the foreseeable future. Maybe if they had like a Selke level 2way guy like Mark Stone it would work.

2) Chicago is starting to see the problem with tanking and why so many great young players don't win early in their careers. There is nobody else around him. Teams just have to send out their best defensive players to neutralize Bedard or can out gun them if they have more offensive fire power. Chicago needs alot more core pieces in important positions. No amount of 50-60 point wingers they bring in will create a matchup problem for coaches.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
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I really liked that Pettersson went to the net to win the puck and set up Garland for the goal. Hopefully we see more of that.

I don't even really blame Bedard for that either.

1) Chicago tanked and have absolutely nobody else on the horizon to be 1c. Asking a smallish 18-19 year old to be a 1c on bad team is not setting them up for success. He should be a winger like Patrick Kane as you said before. Less defensive responsibility. Plus Patrick Kane wasn't an elite defensive player but was really smart and fast and was excellent at reading plays and using his speed to break up passes. Then he was so dangerous in the counter-attack. I think Bedard could do the same. But Chicago has no one else who could be 1c on the team or in the system so he will probably be square pegged for the foreseeable future. Maybe if they had like a Selke level 2way guy like Mark Stone it would work.

2) Chicago is starting to see the problem with tanking and why so many great young players don't win early in their careers. There is nobody else around him. Teams just have to send out their best defensive players to neutralize Bedard or can out gun them if they have more offensive fire power. Chicago needs alot more core pieces in important positions. No amount of 50-60 point wingers they bring in will create a matchup problem for coaches.

Yeah, it's a weird position for Chicago. Bedard is so advanced for his age offensively while being simultaneously so tiny/underdeveloped physically and so terrible defensively.

With Crosby/McDavid/MacKinnon. these guys were pretty advanced physically at the same age and at least palatable defensively (McDavid if he tried at least) and were pretty easy projections to stay at C.

Bedard to me is such a Panarin/Kane/Gaudreau sort of player and skillset. Zero size or physicality, not much compete defensively, guys who cheat toward all-offense all the time and are just very obviously scoring winger types at this level.

But getting your superstar 1C is considered the most important part of a championship team and nobody is going to tell Bedard he can't play C ... so they're just going to keep hammering a square peg into a round hole and hope it sticks.

It's funny because Tocchet made a comment two seasons ago that he wasn't sure Bedard was a C in the NHL and people absolutely ridiculed him for it but it looks a totally correct take, at least for right now and probably the first several years of Bedard's career.
 

Jyrki21

2021-12-05
Sponsor
I think you are forgetting how foundational Brandon Sutter was

Fig. 1:

Powerlift_foundation.jpg
 

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