Line Combos: GM/Coaching criticism

[Bomber0104]

The idea that he's even remotely close to being as impactful as Malkin isn't seriously worth discussing.

Who said this? Me?!

No Pens fan would touch that with a ten foot pole.

Again, who said this?! ME?!

The Leafs centre depth in comparison is considerably stronger,

Crosby, Malkin, McCann, Carter are worse than players who've never won a playoff series in their careers?

Would Pens fans touch that "idea" with a ten foot pole?!

which includes actual 30 goal guys (not 30 points like McCann is) as options for replacement.

Is Spezza/Thornton/Kerfoot better players than Jared McCann (Pittsburgh's backup 2C) at this point in time, in 2021?

That's a pathetic comparison to make.

 

[Menzinger]

Who said this? Me?!



Again, who said this?! ME?!



Crosby, Malkin, McCann, Carter are worse than players who've never won a playoff series?

Would Pens fans touch that "idea" with a ten foot pole?!



Is Spezza a better player than Jared McCann at this point in time, in 2021?

You may want go re-read your earlier posts. You're the one who called McCann a "valid replacement" for Malkin, not me.

And yes. Nylander, Kerfoot, Spezza and Thornton (and Nash) can provide coaching staff with a plethora of options for how to approach the centre postion for the top 9. Surprised this is even up for debate.

For reference: McCann was averaging a mere 14 minutes per game this season. Amongst the lowest trusted icetime of his career

 

[tmlms13]

Excellent point.

One thing to have to deal with things in the fly mid game. If the Leafs do have to do without Tavares for next game they will have more time to prepare

.

I didn't make an excellent point this guy just doesn't get what he's talking about.

Him:
-Keefe sucks he had to blend lines today with 11 forwards
-Cites example of Penguins not blending lines while having 12 forwards

 

[Bomber0104]

You may want go re-read your earlier posts. You're the one who called McCann a "valid replacement" for Malkin, not me.

It worked exceedingly well for the Pens this year.

You should watch more Pens games and ask more fans what they thought of McCann as a 2nd line center.

You'll be surprised, as a Leafs fan.

And yes. Nylander, Kerfoot, Spezza and Thornton (and Nash) can provide coaching staff with a plethora of options for how to approach the centre postion for the top 9. Surprised this is even up for debate

When you're competing against teams with way better options than that as well as better defence and goaltending, on the basis of odds you're going to lose the game.

This is what happens when you invest too heavily into individual players.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I didn't make an excellent point this guy just doesn't get what he's talking about.

Him:
-Keefe sucks he had to blend lines today with 11 forwards
-Cites example of Penguins not blending lines while having 12 forwards

I’m glad I’m not the only one who picked this up. I think he wanted Galchenyuk to suit up mid game with a Stone Cold Steve Austin entrance

 

[Bomber0104]

I didn't make an excellent point this guy just doesn't get what he's talking about.

Him:
-Keefe sucks he had to blend lines today with 11 forwards
-Cites example of Penguins not blending lines while having 12 forwards

Who's the Leafs 2nd line center next game?

Thornton, Spezza, or Kerfoot?

 

[BrettM]

Who's the Leafs 2nd line center next game?

Thornton, Spezza, or Kerfoot?

None of the above, Adam Brooks

 

[Stonehands1990]

Kerfoot is a much better player than Thornton, he could have moved or Spezza and then you double shift Matthews or Marner with the 4th line.

Keefe's obsession with that garbage 3rd shutdown line is pointless when Montreal has no dominant scoring line to shut down and his teams have 4 5v5 goals in6 playoff games. He's awful at getting offense out of this roster in playoff games, that should be his #1 concern.

Thornton only played 10 minutes
Kerfoot played 17
5 on 5 Kerfoot was the 2C

 

[Menzinger]

It worked exceedingly well for the Pens this year.

You should watch more Pens games and ask more fans what they thought of McCann as a 2nd line center.

You'll be surprised, as a Leafs fan.



When you're competing against teams with way better options than that as well as better defence and goaltending, on the basis of odds you're going to lose the game.

This is what happens when you invest too heavily into individual players.

The Pens lost their first playoff game. I don't know why you think this comparison somehow makes the Leafs front office/coaches decisions look bad? Clearly they missed Malkin......

And the point remains; the Leafs are much deeper at centre than the Pens. This isn't particularly debatable either

Further I literally don't understand what point you've been trying to make here. That the Leafs coaches (like literally any coach in history) would have mild difficulty adapting to a massive injury midgame?

 

[Mickey Marner]

Keefe did not do well and tonight was not a great time to try never before seen line combinations. With Tavares out, Matthews and Marner have to find the scoresheet every game, no exceptions. Might have to put Hyman elsewhere in the lineup (Hyman-Kerfoot-Nylander perhaps) to compensate for 91's absence.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Who's the Leafs 2nd line center next game?

Thornton, Spezza, or Kerfoot?

What was our record in the 4 games Matthews missed this season with Kerfoot as 2C? 3-1. Not sure what the debate is.

 

[Bomber0104]

The Pens lost their first playoff game.

How does this mean anything? The Pens are up 2-1 in the series right now.

I don't know why you think this comparison somehow makes the Leafs front office/coaches decisions look bad? Clearly they missed Malkin......

They finished 1st in their conference without Malkin almost all regular season.

And the point remains; the Leafs are much deeper at centre than the Pens. This isn't particularly debatable either

In this moment, no the Pens are much better.

No one would agree with your position either.

Further I literally don't understand what point you've been trying to make here. That the Leafs coaches (like literally any coach in history) would have mild difficulty adapting to a massive injury midgame?

Who is our 2nd line centre next game?

You couldn't even tell me because we don't have one.

We have spare parts auditioning.

 

[Bomber0104]

Keefe did not do well and tonight was not a great time to try never before seen line combinations. With Tavares out, Matthews and Marner have to find the scoresheet every game, no exceptions. Might have to put Hyman elsewhere in the lineup (Hyman-Kerfoot-Nylander perhaps) to compensate for 91's absence.

Exactly.

Poor coaching decisions on full display for everyone to see.

 

[tmlms13]

Who's the Leafs 2nd line center next game?

Thornton, Spezza, or Kerfoot?

Having a discussion of who should be the new #2 center, or who dresses for JT in the next game is a perfectly fine conversation to have. Or even is Jared McCann better or worse than the Leafs new #2 center.

But you were trying to blaming Keefe for something while citing a completely different situation.

If in games #2 and #3 he is blending lines while having 12 forwards I could listen to an argument of "just stick with that you had set and let them work it out" vs "blend the lines as soon as possible if they aren't producing"

 

[Menzinger]

How does this mean anything? The Pens are up 2-1 in the series right now.



They finished 1st in their conference without Malkin almost all regular season.



In this moment, no the Pens are much better.

No one would agree with your position either.



Who is our 2nd line centre next game?

You couldn't even tell me because we don't have one.

We have spare parts auditioning.

The Leafs have only had the option to play one game so far. Seems pretty absurd to hold the Pens current post season record up as any sort of comparison considering the Leafs haven't even had the opportunity to turn the series into a 2-1 setting (or the fact that the Pens also lost their first playoff game lol)

Perhaps we should let Keefe actually have day to adjust his line properly before whining about who the 2C will be. Especially since as mentioned there are multiple line up options available to the Leafs if indeed Tavares remains out.

 

[Bomber0104]

Having a discussion of who should be the new #2 center, or who dresses for JT in the next game is a perfectly fine conversation to have. Or even is Jared McCann better or worse than the Leafs new #2 center.

But you were trying to blaming Keefe for something while citing a completely different situation.

If in games #2 and #3 he is blending lines while having 12 forwards I could listen to an argument of "just stick with that you had set and let them work it out" vs "blend the lines as soon as possible if they aren't producing"

I did change the title to GM/Coach criticisms for a reason.

 

[tmlms13]

I did change the title to GM/Coach criticisms for a reason.

Doesn't change what you've been arguing for 100 posts

 

[Menzinger]

It's definitely curious that McCann is being treated like A proven 2C besides the fact he has a mere 2 more points than Spezza this season despite playing on average 3min more a night.

 

[Bomber0104]

It's definitely curious that McCann is being treated like A proven 2C depaite the fact he has a mere 2 more points than Spezza this season depaite playing on average 3min more a night.

There's nothing curious about it.

Your cherry-picked stat aside, McCann is a way better player than 2021 Jason Spezza.

Ask people that watch hockey, they'll tell ya!

Even guys like Nelson/Pageau/Cizikas for that matter..

 

[Kiwi]

I think Coaches and GM's get the blame for a lot of stuff out of their control but I would like to see some improvement in our special teams after months of ineptitude, that I do believe coaching staffs have a baring on

If I'm Keefe I'm going all in for offense, we aren't going anywhere if we don't score so if I was him I'd try to force the issue and get the team going offensively

I'd bring in Chucky, I'd give Spezza more minutes and I'd give the defenseman a green light to if they see an opportunity

I just don't think these low scoring arm wrestles are a great way for us to win consistently

 

[Menzinger]

There's nothing curious about it.

Your cherry-picked stat aside, McCann is a way better player than 2021 Jason Spezza.

Ask people that watch hockey, they'll tell ya!

Even guys like Nelson/Pageau/Cizikas for that matter..

There's nothing "cherry picked" about comparing their season totals lol that's about as basic stats as you can get (unless you think raw production doesn't matter?)

I assure you if you start poking around more underlying analytics things will just get a lot worse from your position from there.

And i presume most people who actually" watch hockey" would be able to udnerstand the Leafs have a deeper centre positions once you factor in Nylander, Kerfoot Nash and Thornton, there are no shortage of options for this team in this regard

 

[Bomber0104]

There's nothing "cherry picked" about comparing their season totals lol that's about as basic stats as you can get (unless you think raw production doesn't matter?)

I assure you if you start poking around more underlying analytics things will just get a lot worse from your position from there.

And i presume most people who actually" watch hockey" would be able to udnerstand the Leafs have a deeper centre positions once you factor in Nylander, Kerfoot Nash and Thornton, there are no shortage of options for this team in this regard

The Leafs haven't won a playoff round yet in 15 years with this supposed "center depth" you're speaking of, Crosby and Malkin have won multiple Cups, and the Leafs just lost to Montreal tonight...

McCann is just better than Spezza straight up...

I'd love to see you challenge any of these points on the main boards.

I'll do it for you if you'd like?

 

[ZEBROA]

We dont know if Keefe had a plan. What we do know is if he had one it didnt work.

I would have put kerfoot up, played 3 lines. Distrubiuted time more evenly. But most to the line that played best offence for the day.

You can be the best writer in the world but you book would be pretty worthless with your letters only on the cover.

On PP Nylander pp1. Marner low . Nylander around net, left side. Constantly shift positions between Nylander and Matthews and let Marner do his magic. Up to point or thread to Nylander or Matthews. I could not watch so i hope that was how the pp1 was built.

 

[Scott r]

This could go on n on...we can talk about what Montreal could of done better. Its hockey
.playoffs...u guys realize Montreal was not a huge underdog in game 1...toronto minus 210 to win 100...thats equivalent to a money line on a 4 pt nfl game...let's not make this ohio st losing to rice

 

[Scott r]

The Leafs haven't won a playoff round yet in 15 years with this supposed "center depth" you're speaking of, Crosby and Malkin have won multiple Cups, and the Leafs just lost to Montreal tonight...

McCann is just better than Spezza straight up...

I'd love to see you challenge any of these points on the main boards.

I'll do it for you if you'd like?

Disagree. Toronto was 6 to 1 to win cup...they will lose often. You need other players to win cup..not 4.