GDT: GM #6 LA Kings vs Toronto Maple Leafs @4:30pm 10/15/18

[Ziggy Stardust]

Now add in playoffs, world championships etc.....

Not many playoff game appearances for Kopitar in that span. Gee, I wonder why? Must be because there is nothing wrong with the team and they're running like a well oiled machine.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Not many playoff game appearances for Kopitar in that span. Gee, I wonder why? Must be because there is nothing wrong with the team and they're running like a well oiled machine.

Nope, there's not....but the guy literally said that Kopitar has played the most hockey in three years, which is BS...it's hyperbole,

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Nope, there's not....but the guy literally said that Kopitar has played the most hockey in three years, which is BS...it's hyperbole,

No, I literally said in the last few years, and I really wish you'd stop spouting off your arrogant opinions as fact when they're easily fact-checkable only to have you disappear when called out.

Since 2014-2015, Kopitar has played more regular season minutes than any other forward by a significant margin, 6725 minutes. 639 of that is shorthanded, 12th in that time. 915 is power play, 31st. Adding in playoffs, only Ovechkin and Backstrom have played more...and that's only by a little bit with an extra 60+ playoff games. If I go back even one year--due to our playoffs--it's not even close. And that's me deliberately picking the 'least' hockey Kopitar has played by avoiding the playoff runs, not doing per-game to avoid his injury, to help you not look completely stupid.

So no, it's not hyperbole, you're just being arrogant using your own perception and head-facts instead of real facts, and again being pedantic, missing the forest for the trees. You're more predictable than Stevens.

And let me help redirect you so you don't go back down the rabbit hole like last night's discussion--this is about roster mismanagement and bad allocation of minutes. It's not just about his big minutes, it's about how they're allocated. I'm not doing any more of your homework, but go ahead and look at time on ice splits by period to see what I mean. You'll notice why those guys are dead by game's end.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

No, I literally said in the last few years, and I really wish you'd stop spouting off your arrogant opinions as fact when they're easily fact-checkable only to have you disappear when called out.

Since 2014-2015, Kopitar has played more regular season minutes than any other forward by a significant margin, 6725 minutes. 639 of that is shorthanded, 12th in that time. 915 is power play, 31st. Adding in playoffs, only Ovechkin and Backstrom have played more...and that's only by a little bit with an extra 60+ playoff games. If I go back even one year--due to our playoffs--it's not even close. And that's me deliberately picking the 'least' hockey Kopitar has played by avoiding the playoff runs, not doing per-game to avoid his injury, to help you not look completely stupid.

So no, it's not hyperbole, you're just being arrogant using your own perception and head-facts instead of real facts, and again being pedantic, missing the forest for the trees. You're more predictable than Stevens.

And let me help redirect you so you don't go back down the rabbit hole like last night's discussion--this is about roster mismanagement and bad allocation of minutes. It's not just about his big minutes, it's about how they're allocated. I'm not doing any more of your homework, but go ahead and look at time on ice splits by period to see what I mean. You'll notice why those guys are dead by game's end.

You are right, you said in the last few years, I took that to mean as three, hence the link that Ziggy posted,

You want to use 2014-2015 as a base, sure,

Since then, Reg season, Kopitar has 6,725 as you posted, + 220
Ovechkin - 6508 + 1286
Backstrom - 6309 + 1224
Crosby - 6441 + 1300
Pavelski - 6506 + 839

Now when you add playoffs,

Kopitar 6945
Ovehckin 7794
Backstrom - 7533
Crosby - 7741
Pavelski - 7345,

All significantly higher.... so no....Kopitar hasn't played the most hockey in the last few years, not by a long shot...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Not sure how accurate this site is, but this is last year,

Most ice time while trailing,

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Kopitar, 15th,

Most ice time while leading,

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Kopitar, 66th

And last, most ice time within 1, I'm assuming either way

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Kopitar 5th,

So his ice time allocation is nothing out of the ordinary for #1 C...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Haven't been able to find a site that has period splits, got one handy?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

The crappy 2007-08 Kings scored 5 PP goals in one game.


Will they even get that many PP goals this month? Probably not.

 

[BigKing]

You are right, you said in the last few years, I took that to mean as three, hence the link that Ziggy posted,

You want to use 2014-2015 as a base, sure,

Since then, Reg season, Kopitar has 6,725 as you posted, + 220
Ovechkin - 6508 + 1286
Backstrom - 6309 + 1224
Crosby - 6441 + 1300
Pavelski - 6506 + 839

Now when you add playoffs,

Kopitar 6945
Ovehckin 7794
Backstrom - 7533
Crosby - 7741
Pavelski - 7345,

All significantly higher.... so no....Kopitar hasn't played the most hockey in the last few years, not by a long shot...

I shouldn't be wading into this mess but I'm bored at work.

The other players listed...what do they have in common over this time frame v. Kopitar?

With that answered, is there perhaps a correlation between less regular season minutes leading to the opportunity for playoff minutes?

If the answer is no and it is due to them being able to play less minutes because they are on better overall teams, what does that say about the Kings? That they can only scrape by if Kopitar--and Doughty--are almost always on the ice?

Cool. Then when (if) they get to the playoffs, they can get steamrolled by fresher teams. Rinse and repeat.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I shouldn't be wading into this mess but I'm bored at work.

The other players listed...what do they have in common over this time frame v. Kopitar?

With that answered, is there perhaps a correlation between less regular season minutes leading to the opportunity for playoff minutes?

If the answer is no and it is due to them being able to play less minutes because they are on better overall teams, what does that say about the Kings? That they can only scrape by if Kopitar--and Doughty--are almost always on the ice?

Cool. Then when (if) they get to the playoffs, they can get steamrolled by fresher teams. Rinse and repeat.

What they don't have in common is probably easier to answer, they are all on deeper teams, no doubt about it, there isn't a NEED for them to play the minutes Kopitar has, but that's not a coaching issue like RJ is trying to make it out to be, that's a roster issue or a management issue.

No one is arguing that there isn't a roster issue, or a depth issue, people are crying in their milk over Stevens saying Amadio was his 3rd line C, and then playing him on the 4th line to start the season,

Beginning of last year, Kings were winning, Kings were scoring etc, Stevens was the answer, hallelujah, Sutter is gone, that was the problem....and....now, Stevens is the problem....well what changed, because people are arguing that Stevens coaching hasn't changed, he hasn't adapted, so if they were scoring beginning of last season, and now not...what changed, apparently it wasn't Stevens.

 

[crassbonanza]

What they don't have in common is probably easier to answer, they are all on deeper teams, no doubt about it, there isn't a NEED for them to play the minutes Kopitar has, but that's not a coaching issue like RJ is trying to make it out to be, that's a roster issue or a management issue.

No one is arguing that there isn't a roster issue, or a depth issue, people are crying in their milk over Stevens saying Amadio was his 3rd line C, and then playing him on the 4th line to start the season,

Beginning of last year, Kings were winning, Kings were scoring etc, Stevens was the answer, hallelujah, Sutter is gone, that was the problem....and....now, Stevens is the problem....well what changed, because people are arguing that Stevens coaching hasn't changed, he hasn't adapted, so if they were scoring beginning of last season, and now not...what changed, apparently it wasn't Stevens.

To be honest, I think the biggest change happened following the Tampa Bay game that we got smoked in. Prior to that, I believe we were 11-2-2 and the offense was much more free flowing. Following that game, the system seemed to become much more conservative and the scoring proceeded to drop by about a half goal per game. This also coincided with Tuergon no longer being mentioned by the broadcast or interviewed by the media. I feel like there was some friction around that time period between Tuergon and Stevens regarding the system and that is why Tuergon quietly left the team in the offseason.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

To be honest, I think the biggest change happened following the Tampa Bay game that we got smoked in. Prior to that, I believe we were 11-2-2 and the offense was much more free flowing. Following that game, the system seemed to become much more conservative and the scoring proceeded to drop by about a half goal per game. This also coincided with Tuergon no longer being mentioned by the broadcast or interviewed by the media. I feel like there was some friction around that time period between Tuergon and Stevens regarding the system and that is why Tuergon quietlky left the team in the offseason.

That's probably the first reasonable explanation I've seen....if that's the case, and this problem continues, Blake needs to have a long talk...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Dunno who the other guy is but two of those guys are Patrick Kane and Connor McDavid and each is sheltered and hardly sniffing the PK. Not all minutes are created equal, especially given how buried the Kings have been to start the year.

The points is more that Stevens handicaps the everliving **** out of the lineup to start the game then shortens the bench when it's too late and overloading the top guys, can't even remember how many games last year they looked completely gassed when trying to tie it up with the goalie pulled because Kopitar and Doughty are playing 8 of the last 10 minutes. It's just another illustration of bad game management, not that we need another one.

Trocheck, RNH, Scheifele, Barkov, and Couturier are within 50 seconds of Kopitar in total time, and they've all played as much, if not more, on the PK so far. You can make the argument that they're all younger, and less miles on the body, but the Kopitar camp was playing hardball the same way Lombardi was, so they wanted the money. A little less for Kopitar, and maybe they could afford a better depth center, but they can't. The only time Kopitar averaged close to the same PP time as he is this year, was in 11-12, and 13-14. He actually averaged more time on the PK both those years than in this year too. It was the ES time that was a couple minutes less then than now.

I can't say I've been a huge fan of Stevens and the way he does ice time. He doesn't really play the 4th line, whoever is on it. I remember at the start of last year, when McD was up, and Muzzin or Martinez were out, or something like that, and he never played McD on the PK. I get that he's slow, and young-ish, but if he's not going to play PK, then what's the point?

We can go back to the faceoff thing again. Kopitar has taken almost as many as the next 2 guys combined on the team. Carter is barely over 50%. At least Kempe isn't in the 30's this year, but Amadio is. We don't want to see Thompson out there more often, so if Kopitar ends up going out there to take the faceoffs, and then ends up stuck out there, those seconds seem to add up quickly. Kopitar plays with Iafallo all the time, but has almost 4 more minutes per game of ES time so far. He's got almost 2 more minutes than Kovalchuk at ES per game.

 

[Herby]

As for Kopitar's minutes, they can't win without him and Doughty eating league-leading, or close to it, minutes.

Yup, that is the problem. You have a team that is telling itself and its fans that its a contender and the only way they can even sniff a playoff spot is do what they did last year which is ride Kopitar and Doughty. Last year they both were Top 10 NHL players and the Kings still didn't win a playoff game.

This team just has horrific secondary talent behind the Big 2, and it's even worse now that Carter has gotten old and isn't the same player he was.

This is just tough to watch and get excited for.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yup, that is the problem. You have a team that is telling itself and its fans that its a contender and the only way they can even sniff a playoff spot is do what they did last year which is ride Kopitar and Doughty. Last year they both were Top 10 NHL players and the Kings still didn't win a playoff game.

This team just has horrific secondary talent behind the Big 2, and it's even worse now that Carter has gotten old and isn't the same player he was.

This is just tough to watch and get excited for.

You say the Big 2, I hope you aren't including Doughty in that, great great Dman that he is, he's not really an offensive force......right now it's like...the Big 1.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

You say the Big 2, I hope you aren't including Doughty in that, great great Dman that he is, he's not really an offensive force......right now it's like...the Big 1.

Who's the big one? Even Kopitar is cold out of the gate with zero helpers. I can't say any forward combinations have shown much chemistry thus far two weeks into the season. And even when they were healthy during the preseason, most of the forwards looked out of sync.

While most bemoaned not to read much into preseason results, it was a good preview of what to expect out of the game. And I'm the first to remind others that they've had stellar preseasons and followed that up with crappy seasons.

What we learned in the preseason was to expect more or less of the same from this Kings team to what we witnessed last season. They didn't alter or change much aside from a few individual highlights that we saw from Kovalchuk, who appeared to be the lone Kings forward willing to try to penetrate the middle of the ice with the puck. Y'know, those areas of the ice the likes of Toffoli and Pearson are both allergic to.

 

[BigKing]

What they don't have in common is probably easier to answer, they are all on deeper teams, no doubt about it, there isn't a NEED for them to play the minutes Kopitar has, but that's not a coaching issue like RJ is trying to make it out to be, that's a roster issue or a management issue.

No one is arguing that there isn't a roster issue, or a depth issue, people are crying in their milk over Stevens saying Amadio was his 3rd line C, and then playing him on the 4th line to start the season,

Beginning of last year, Kings were winning, Kings were scoring etc, Stevens was the answer, hallelujah, Sutter is gone, that was the problem....and....now, Stevens is the problem....well what changed, because people are arguing that Stevens coaching hasn't changed, he hasn't adapted, so if they were scoring beginning of last season, and now not...what changed, apparently it wasn't Stevens.

Going to admit that I like this response since I usually feel that you believe--at a minimum--everything is fine and--more often than not--things are better than they are.

There is a roster issue, most definitely, but we can't let Stevens off the hook because he isn't doing the best with what he has to work with. If they are going to lose while playing Thompson his minutes, let's go ahead and lose with Wagner or another youngster getting important developmental minutes instead. Thompson is a rapidly diminishing asset, one in which you already know what you are going to get.

As for last season, they were healthy and 5-0-1 after the Montreal game that saw Carter go down. They then rode a scoring streak from Kempe and, I know you will like this, were on the plus side of most bounces. The latter usually evens out over the course of the season and the former proved to be unsustainable.

There was definitely some tire pumping for Stevens but most of it was given to Blake which was entirely too much, too soon. Lombardi's team, with the Blake addition of Iafallo, went out and produced after shitting the bed the year before and basically giving up on Sutter. It could have been a cardboard cutout of a dude in a suit behind the bench since it wasn't any special strategy from Stevens that led to them scoring more, just like it wasn't Stevens making them not score in January.

This team needed to remain completely healthy at the key positions while also adding. They added in Kovalchuk but lost Brown, Quick and Vilardi since the latter was all-but-penciled-in to make the roster. The Top 6 needs these guys so someone else can slot down, much like how the 2012 team couldn't score until Carter came along and the lines became more balanced.

At the moment, they are last year's team but without a power play goal and Quick. That team had to grind out a playoff appearance on the back of Hart & Norris-worthy seasons from 11 & 8 and then scored 3 goals in 4 playoff games.

It's just not good enough and it is more of a roster issue than coaching, but Stevens isn't helping. The roster issue is likely not going to be addressed via trade so the Kings need a significant boost from its prospects. A guy who is not very good, slow and is in the last year of his contract should not be getting line promotions prior to going up against a fast team on the road. It is pretty ridiculous.

 

[MsMeow]

Finally, this will be my first game of the season and I hope it isn't a massive disaster. Leaf fans finally have something to cheer about since the 60s.

 

[Legionnaire]

Please let this be the start of a horrendous losing streak that ends with the Kings reevaluating every decision that they've made over the past 5 years, thank you.

Booooooooo. Boo this man. Booooooooo.

 

[lumbergh]

Has the game started yet? Page 4 already.

 

[bouncesonly]

Has the game started yet? Page 4 already.

Page 10 on the Leafs board. The usual, Quick is an Oscar nominee/winner, Sparks best not shit the bed, Babcock genius for resting Anderson, overestimating our D corps, Kings will double their GF, etc.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Going to admit that I like this response since I usually feel that you believe--at a minimum--everything is fine and--more often than not--things are better than they are.

There is a roster issue, most definitely, but we can't let Stevens off the hook because he isn't doing the best with what he has to work with. If they are going to lose while playing Thompson his minutes, let's go ahead and lose with Wagner or another youngster getting important developmental minutes instead. Thompson is a rapidly diminishing asset, one in which you already know what you are going to get.

As for last season, they were healthy and 5-0-1 after the Montreal game that saw Carter go down. They then rode a scoring streak from Kempe and, I know you will like this, were on the plus side of most bounces. The latter usually evens out over the course of the season and the former proved to be unsustainable.

There was definitely some tire pumping for Stevens but most of it was given to Blake which was entirely too much, too soon. Lombardi's team, with the Blake addition of Iafallo, went out and produced after ****ting the bed the year before and basically giving up on Sutter. It could have been a cardboard cutout of a dude in a suit behind the bench since it wasn't any special strategy from Stevens that led to them scoring more, just like it wasn't Stevens making them not score in January.

This team needed to remain completely healthy at the key positions while also adding. They added in Kovalchuk but lost Brown, Quick and Vilardi since the latter was all-but-penciled-in to make the roster. The Top 6 needs these guys so someone else can slot down, much like how the 2012 team couldn't score until Carter came along and the lines became more balanced.

At the moment, they are last year's team but without a power play goal and Quick. That team had to grind out a playoff appearance on the back of Hart & Norris-worthy seasons from 11 & 8 and then scored 3 goals in 4 playoff games.

It's just not good enough and it is more of a roster issue than coaching, but Stevens isn't helping. The roster issue is likely not going to be addressed via trade so the Kings need a significant boost from its prospects. A guy who is not very good, slow and is in the last year of his contract should not be getting line promotions prior to going up against a fast team on the road. It is pretty ridiculous.

Or, you don't want rookies in there to take a beating. Sometimes it hurts development, sometimes it doesn't. You never know which way that's going to go. We as fans are even all over the place with that. Put players in a position to succeed. If you have an overall team getting worked every game, is putting a 19 year old consistently on the ice, or a guy that had 10 goals in 50 AHL games last year consistently on the ice, giving them the chance to succeed? Maybe. JAD had a decent game against Montreal. Wagner has had his chances, that he didn't score on. Well, rookies should get punched in the mouth early on. Just like Storr and Berg.

Given health, would Wagner even be on the team? Not with the contract situation. I know people say cut Thompson and Clifford, but that's not an actual option. Or a realistic one. Would JAD be on the team? Not if Brown, Brodzinski, and Vilardi were there. There would simply be no room on the roster. Again, Thompson/Clifford. If they don't feel those young guys are ready for more consistent time, should they be thrown out there simply because they're all that's left?

 

[Sol]

Page 10 on the Leafs board. The usual, Quick is an Oscar nominee/winner, Sparks best not **** the bed, Babcock genius for resting Anderson, overestimating our D corps, Kings will double their GF, etc.

Thanks for the break down. I didn't want to check cause I wanted to avoid the circle-jerking on their boards.

 

[deeshamrock]

Page 10 on the Leafs board. The usual, Quick is an Oscar nominee/winner, Sparks best not **** the bed, Babcock genius for resting Anderson, overestimating our D corps, Kings will double their GF, etc.

He's out injured, which is why the kid from the ECHL (Eamon McAdam) is backing up Sparks, the goalie behind Anderson and Sparks is Kasimir Kaskisuoas, but he's hurt as well.
They made a mistake putting McElhenney and Pickard on waivers.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Has the game started yet? Page 4 already.

Yep. Gretzky just clipped Doug Gilmour with a high stick.

 

[Herby]

Yep. Gretzky just clipped Doug Gilmour with a high stick.