Post-Game Talk: GM 36 | Flames def. Canucks | 3-1 (Boeser) | Onto 2025.

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
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If Allvin trades this years first, it had best be top 12 protected.
Gotta' confess I have no idea how the experts are rating the 2025 draft. But clearly the Canucks weren't a big fan of the 2024 draft, because they traded most of their picks.

Whatever happens the rest of the way, I'd really like to see the Canucks hang on to all their picks. Even if they were squeeze into the playoffs and draft in the 15-20 range, there are some interesting centers who might still be on the board.

Their prospect pool really needs an infusion of talent.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
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Wasn't able to focus too closely but this looked like another game where we simply did not look good.

Calgary forwards consistently had time and space with the puck all over the slot area in the Canucks zone.

Like I've been saying all season, the team seems to have regressed into pre-Tocchet hockey where a lot of the players appear unable to grasp simple defensive concepts and we just don't have even close to the overall offensive ability and talent to make up for it (especially with the players we are missing).

The Canucks made it hell for other teams to consistently generate quality chances last year and simply don't have that same level of commitment and consistency right now.

Some bright spots: Boeser and Miller looked engaged (other than the few usual iffy passes from Miller), Sherwood continued his strong play other than one bad line change and Lankinen once again gave the team a chance to win.
 

Wry n Ginger

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Joshua’s bad performance this season is the most predictable thing of all time. Months off given the cancer diagnosis and treatments for a notorious slow starter.. it’s entirely predictable.

Give it til the TDL

Zero excuses for any of the other slow starters or underperformers.
Joshua had been a tweener up until last year. Last year was the first time he showed that he could maintain and sustain a solid production level through a full season...and you are shit talking him because of cancer?

Like you know how his mental and physical ability could be judged after dealing with cancer?!?! Are you sure you don't want to rethink your angle?
 

B-rock

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Jun 29, 2003
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Joshua had been a tweener up until last year. Last year was the first time he showed that he could maintain and sustain a solid production level through a full season...and you are shit talking him because of cancer?

Like you know how his mental and physical ability could be judged after dealing with cancer?!?! Are you sure you don't want to rethink your angle?
I don’t think he’s saying he’s awful. Pretty sure he’s saying it was predictable that Joshua would start slow because of the cancer and to wait until March for him to get his game back.
I didn’t get the sense there was any shit talking.
 

Wry n Ginger

Water which is too pure has no fish
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The last 2 games to me have mostly shown that the systems that Tocchet/Foote employ are heavily dependent on having at least one of their 2 core defenseman on the roster.

Without either Hughes or Hronek all the D are playing way of their expected roles and areas of coverage.

Lankinen was clearly unsure on several passes.
 
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AzNightmare

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Joshua had been a tweener up until last year. Last year was the first time he showed that he could maintain and sustain a solid production level through a full season...and you are shit talking him because of cancer?

Like you know how his mental and physical ability could be judged after dealing with cancer?!?! Are you sure you don't want to rethink your angle?

I think you misunderstood his comment. He said "Zero excuses for any of the other slow starters or underperformers." (So not including Joshua)
 
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PuckMunchkin

Very Nice, Very Evil!
Dec 13, 2006
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They've acted like we are though. All of their moves are those of a team that believes they're in the middle of a window. A patient slow rising team doesn't buyout players, constantly trade picks to dump dead weight, sign old players to long contracts and buy rentals.

I didn't want them to go all in when they took over because they had virtually no margin of error with this path, whereas a slower burn was a much easier path to contention, but that option has long since passed.
Same same!
We're committed to competing now whether we actually are a contender or not. So they deserve to be judged by that standard because that's what they chose.
This is exactly the situation we find our selves in.

Despite QH leveling up not once but twice since his break out year, the team is very thin on elite talent, depth, picks and prospects.
 

kanucks25

Chris Tanev #1 Fan
Nov 29, 2013
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Because I am very sick and very bored here are some breakdowns from this game:

Here's a situation that we see often from limited D-men that struggle with processing the play quickly and/or can't skate that well. The guy on his right is taken out of the play, Juulsen peeks over to his left to see that the trailer is being covered by a back-checker. In this case he has the green light to step up and close the space on Zary who has just picked up the puck pretty much at the blueline. But instead, Juulsen backs off and gives Zary a clean look from almost the faceoff dot.

1735732497861.png


Here is an example of the defensive switches / rotations issues I've been talking about. This one's a bit awkward as Debrusk was covering for Miller at center because Debrusk was the first back-checker. Debrusk at this point is in no man's land, and needs to close the gap on the point.

1735732958751.png


Miller then inexplicably points to Debrusk to tell him to go across the zone to cover the other point, but then also doesn't close out on Coronato. Instead he backs off in an attempt to block the shot and Debrusk is still in no man's land covering nobody. Coronato rings it off the crossbar with a clean shot from the high slot.

Juulsen falling asleep on the blueline to allow the breakway, then overcommiting to Soucy's side and basically just getting in Soucy's way which made it difficult for him to clear the puck as well. Juulsen should be somewhere in the red circle defending the crease but instead he ends up in his opposite corner staring at an empty net tap in.

1735733451557.png


Here's another example of a D-man not being able to process the play. Desharnais sees that Blueger has what would usually be his guy in the corner, he sees Brannstrom has his guy in the opposite corner, and the wingers are in position covering their point man. That means there's one guy left, and with all 4 corners covered that typically means the 5th guy is in the middle. But he's too uncomfortable leaving his post beside the net, and it leads to a clean shot dead in the slot.

1735734085972.png


On the very same rebound Desharnais has a decent amount of time and space to make a play with the puck but he bobbles it and has to look down at it to settle it, and then just rifles it high off the glass and out. This shift was a prime example of how not having enough legit NHL D-men cripples the team. Just way too often the reads are wrong defensively and the ability to transition cleanly is nonexistent.

1735734265191.png


And here's the play that leads to the game-winner. Joshua should easily be able to recognize that both his linemates are already fore-checking, so it's his responsibility to the first forward back. Instead he just stands there, doesn't intercept the pass or "chip a body" and the Flames have a clear 3-on-2. It's also fair to say that both Garland and Suter were half-assing this fore-check and Suter probably should have backed off instead of attempting to pressure up ice.

1735734549996.png
 
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bob77

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Nov 19, 2014
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Second game in a row where the D man tries to make a play on the loose puck rather than clearing it to the corner w a sense of urgency to get it out of danger. Last game it was Soucy, and last night it was Jullsen at the side of the net. He gets stripped and Zary has it in the net. We don’t need D trying to make plays ALL the time. There are times to eat the puck. There are times to clear to corner. There are times to clear zone, even if icing, etc. We can’t have blatant turnovers, etc.
 
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VanJack

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The current Canuck crisis on the back-end was and is a disaster two years in the making. Delete Hughes and Hronek from last year's back-end, and they wouldn't have been any better than they are right now.

Look around the league......I defy anyone to claim that this current six-man rotation for the Canucks isn't the worst in the NHL. Yep, worse even than Chicago, San Jose or Anaheim in the West; and Buffalo, Columbus and the Islanders in the East.

So much offense is driven from the back-end. If you give up the blueline and defensive zone-time, your top players spend more time running around defending, rather than generating any offense.

So the only question to be answered is whether or not the Canucks will still be relevant in the Western Conference playoff race by the time Hughes and Hronek return? I guess a secondary question is whether Allvin has time to address the need, before it's too late.
 

theguardianII

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Jan 30, 2020
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Happy New Year all.

"Brotherhood in here" I found that significant. Certainly different than in the Vancouver room. Oh, this was a statement Lomberg made post game. The other oddity is that Calgary has camera shots in the dressing room.

Brotherhood vs Guys don't have to like each other.

The most exciting thing in the game, 5 players on each side in the penalty boxes.
Great goal tending on each side
Great 5 on 3 PK
Both sides with "almost" goals.
 

Wry n Ginger

Water which is too pure has no fish
Sep 15, 2010
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I don’t think he’s saying he’s awful. Pretty sure he’s saying it was predictable that Joshua would start slow because of the cancer and to wait until March for him to get his game back.
I didn’t get the sense there was any shit talking.
Ahh...I see that now. Thanks for keeping me on the straight and narrow boys.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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I believe tocchet wanted some of these dmen and they obliged, tocchet said on tnt he likes big dmen, I just get the vibe they made these signings at the request of tocchet and that likely needs to stop. Tocchets not the easiest guy to play for though so its hard to get him players if he wont like them either.
I’m sure Tocchet had influence. And bigger is better provided they can play. It's up to the pro scouts to identify players with the desired profile and, ultimately, Allvin to make the decision on which one(s) to pursue. I'm sure Tocchet was consulted throughout the process.

On the bolded text: As long as Tocchet is coach they will consult him. If they've completely lost confidence in his advice, the next step is firing him. And I don't think anyone is close to advocating for that.

Just like pressure shouldn't be put on Allvin for deployment, pressure should not be put on Tocchet for the composition of the D. And that composition is the main reason they're struggling.

Again, I'm not bothered by the struggles. Injuries happen and it's a long season. And I certainly don't want them to blow up the future for a quick fix. A deliberate, methodical approach to building the team for both the short and long term is required. I think we should have confidence in Allvin/Ruthford &Co. to execute despite the recent challenges.
 

strattonius

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
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Funny how so many blame the D quality or goaltending

Open your eyes

This team has zero offensive success. Clearly Tocchet is incapable of developing a solid offensive system

We are a a pathetic goals for average, how can any team win when they can’t score?

Fire Tocchet

Defense can't transition the puck up the ice we are getting hemmed in our own zone. With Hughes and Hronek out we probably have the worst blueline in the league.

It's the D right now, not even debatable.
 

rypper

21-12-05 it's finally over.
Dec 22, 2006
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Funny how so many blame the D quality or goaltending

Open your eyes

This team has zero offensive success. Clearly Tocchet is incapable of developing a solid offensive system

We are a a pathetic goals for average, how can any team win when they can’t score?

Fire Tocchet

Right on cue.
 
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tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
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From the game thread....

If you think the bulk of injuries are simply the result of playing a lot I don't know what to tell you. Him playing a minute or so less a game on average isn't some huge significant thing. That is what is being talked about because he's going to play well over 20 minutes a night no matter what. An average of 25 vs 23 minutes over a set of games isn't some sort of tipping point for injury. Again what makes Hughes so unusual that he should be given less minutes compared to:

Werenski, Sergachev, Makar, Heiskanen, and Faber who play more than Hughes (25:08 average...an average that has been steady the entire year)
or
Jones, Josi, Seider, Sanheim, Parayko and Andersson who all play over 24:30 a night.

25 minutes a night on average is what #1 D-men in the world play (there are 20D over 24 minutes a game, 35 over 23 minutes). Some games it will be less and some it will be more.

I have never seen NHL numbers but the NBA released a study last year showing that load management had no bearing on injury rate.

"Results from these analyses do not suggest that missing games for rest or load management -- or having longer breaks between game participation -- reduces future in-season injury risk," the report said, in bold type, in its summary.

"In addition, injury rates were not found to be higher during or immediately following periods of a dense schedule."

Injuries happen and typically it's from routine things that can happen at any time.
 

me2

Go ahead foot
Jun 28, 2002
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Make my day.
Funny how so many blame the D quality or goaltending

Open your eyes

This team has zero offensive success. Clearly Tocchet is incapable of developing a solid offensive system

We are a a pathetic goals for average, how can any team win when they can’t score?

Fire Tocchet



What's your plan for this D to increase offenve. Run and gun? The D skating with the puck to create gaps? Long passes through the neutral zone for breakaways?
 

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