Post-Game Talk: GM 32 | Golden Knights def. Canucks | 3-1 (Blueger) | Royal(ly) Flush(ed)

[orcatown]

After the Boston disaster team had little choice but to go with totally defensive type hockey. Add that to the fact that the supposed "offensive leaders" are producing near nothing and you just don't have enough sustained offense. Right now, if the goalie allows one bad goal, you're pretty much sunk.

Good

Sherwood - probably our most dangerous forward.

Hughes - carrying a huge load in his end and elsewhere. Can't do it all.

Bad

Boeser - did he play?? Getting paid to provide some offense. In this game was zero threat to do anything. Just no pace at all in his skating - more or less a meandering plow horse trying to stay somewhere close to the play.

Myers - looked dead beat. Maybe doesn't have it anymore to play two days in a row. Problem is that he has to be over played.

Debrusk - story is that he runs hot and cold - guess this is one of his slow periods. Never in the play in this game. Might be another victum of the need to shut things down rather than try to score.

Others

PDG - supplies the same heavy, decent forchecking, good positional play he always does. You get what you expect. Honest 4th liner but nothing more. Would say he was in the top half of Canuck forwards in this game.

Karlsson - if he isn't supplying offense (which I don't see him doing at this level) then more or less useless. Probably his final audition for the NHL and I don't think he has enough to stay. Rather see Lekkermaki although he isn't ready. Non factor in this game which at least means he wasn't screwing up defensively (don't think you can blame him on the first goal)

Forbert - nothing to get excited about but seemed serviceable for the most part. Probably better than Brannstrom.

Desharnais - moved the puck up from the back better than usual. Also decent in his end. Doubtful but maybe he can raise his game.

Miller - least didn't start threating and swearing at Lankanin when he was slow getting off for the sixth attacker. Was a little better but something needs to give here - dragging around Boeser doesn't help but he continues to fight it.

For the most part a solid defensive effort but team has got to produce more offense, especially on the PP - which ATM looks confused and dysfunctional.

 

[Szechwan]

 

[Leif Rohlin]

We actually played a decent road game overall but our bottom 2 D pairings are just overmatched against a team like this. Juulsen and Desharnais specifically were in way over their heads tonight. Like Forbort is a #6/7 with serious limitations, and he was head and shoulders above those 2.

The other obvious issue is we just aren't generating any offense at even strength. Even in the Colorado game, we were better but still didn't generate a lot against a team that typically gives up a lot. Miller and Pettersson both had some moments tonight but on most of their shifts just didn't accomplish much.

This alternating on the power play thing is such a farce too. This just can't continue.

 

[thecupismine]

Didn't watch much of the game, but if your top 6 goes 4 games without scoring a goal, it's a bloody miracle that you're only 1-2-1 in that stretch.

You could be playing Jacques Lemaire, early expansion Minnesota Wild style hockey, with a bottom 4 similar to this, and you'd expect your big guns to produce more. Petey with another 5 game pointless stretch is simply baffling, but it's not like Miller/Boeser have done much more either.

When I did watch the bottom 6 looked like it had more life than the top 6, which is just bad when it has two guys with As on their jersey just sitting around doing nothing.

Also want to add Hughes is being strained to the max having to carry around Myers each night. It was ok for a short stretch, but I'm guessing their expected goal share is 7-10% lower than Hughes/Hronek.

You can play boring hockey if you're winning, but if your bad, boring, and look like you're putting in 50% each night, it's the worst combination in sports. Management needs to do something about the top 4 situation, or the arena is going to be looking even more empty than that Boston game was.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Didn't watch much of the game, but if your top 6 goes 4 games without scoring a goal, it's a bloody miracle that you're only 1-2-1 in that stretch.

You could be playing Jacques Lemaire, early expansion Minnesota Wild style hockey, with a bottom 4 similar to this, and you'd expect your big guns to produce more. Petey with another 5 game pointless stretch is simply baffling, but it's not like Miller/Boeser have done much more either.

When I did watch the bottom 6 looked like it had more life than the top 6, which is just bad when it has two guys with As on their jersey just sitting around doing nothing.

You can play boring hockey if you're winning, but if your bad, boring, and look like you're putting in 50% each night, it's the worst combination in sports. Management needs to do something about the top 4 situation, or the arena is going to be looking even more empty than that Boston game was.

So, my context is I've seen the games I've seen this season...I've seen like 9. We seem wildly inconsistent. But if you're wildly inconsistent and over .500 past 25 games. That's a major sign to push your chips into the center if I've seen it.

 

[racerjoe]

I missed tonight’s game, but in what I have seen from the other games, it’s pretty simple… our defence can’t move the puck. They dump it out and play dump and chase, and this works for the bottom lines, I mean fourth line grind, but the top 2 lines are made for more possession style hockey.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Penalty magnet Myers did get away with an overhead, 2 handed execution slash in open ice. That was nice.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Paging our top players?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it’s not rocket science, you can’t win when only one out of six dmen can execute a f***ing breakout pass

I don't know the specific x's n o's of any NHL team, but I do know that that under Toch, going entire periods with 1-2 shots, and taking a full minute before getting a shot attempt on PP1, has been a constant problem.

that there is why garland is on the PP, even though he’s not naturally good at any part of being on a PP. he’s the only guy who is hard wired to move the puck towards the goal line instead of auto-passing it to the point.

 

[David71]

f*** this team and this ep jt bullshit drama. the coaches/mgmt and owner should have a sitdown withh these two. one is a manchild, the other is a sensitive kid. either YOU two get along or one of u will be traded end of discussion. kobe and shaq hated each other but still won 3 championships together. WHY CANT THEY GET ALONG. since miller returned ep has no points in 7 games. cant keep on using the coach card get out of free its been done with so many times. change the core.

 

[Leif Rohlin]

Another thing I forgot to mention is look at how overmatched our D looked tonight, and remember this was Vegas without Barbashev and Roy. Their forward lines don't work the same without those 2 guys.

Not a fan of Tocchet's line combinations lately either. In the Florida game he inexplicably put Hoglander on Miller's line and had him on the ice against Barkov and Reinhart a bunch of times. Then he switched it to Garland, who just doesn't seem to be a good fit at all, and now PDG who's a good 4th liner but should not be playing in our top 6.

The obvious choice for that spot is Suter, but Tocchet seems reluctant to use him on the wing. I think Sasson is fine in the 4C spot for now as long as you keep him away from the other team's top 2 lines, but if he wants to keep Suter at center he could also put Heinen with Miller and Boeser. Would probably be a better option than any of the other 3 he's tried.

 

[Bonham]

At the game tonight.

EP does so much on the ice that he doesn't get credit for. Active stick and defensively aware all night but wish he would drive more offense. He's far down the list of problems with the roster though.

The ability to drive the puck from the backend is so apparent.

Thought it was an even game, but going a period with one shot isn't going to win many games.

 

[Bonham]

At the game tonight.

EP does so much on the ice that he doesn't get credit for. Active stick and defensively aware all night but wish he would drive more offense. He's far down the list of problems with the roster though.

The ability to drive the puck from the backend is so apparent.

Thought it was an even game, but going a period with one shot isn't going to win many games.

 

[David71]

Paging our top players?

we have none. its the bottom 6. garland/sherwood driving the bus and lankien most nights.

 

[crazychimp]

Didn't Bruce try run and gun? How'd that work out?

Look at teams like Buffalo trying to play like that too. We don't have the puck movers on the back end to do it, although you can argue that the roster is constructed that way at Tocchet's request.

If the team adds a legit top 4 dman who can move the puck well and once Hronek is back, then sure open up the system but right now you can't with this team. I dislike the boring hockey too, but it does raise the floor of this team.

A mixture of Bruce’s system and Tocchets is what I’d like to see. I feel like that’s what last years team was maybe because Bruce had just left the year prior and was still fresh in the minds of the players.

 

[DimitriL07]

Jt told me he’s gunna start tying EP’s laces together on the bench so he can steal his shifts.

 

[bossram]

It was as much of a schedule loss as it gets, so there's that.

The offensive generation problems are just how Tocc wants them to play. This is the team they are. If you're mad about it, well, you should have been mad about it 120 games ago. This is how they've always played under Tocc. Just the first half of last season it was masked by unsustainable shooting luck (despite many saying that they'd found a "new style" of play to maintain it). It's been pointed out that they don't create offense, over a year ago.

They made a big deal of "evolving" and trying to create more rush chances. They brought in guys like Sprong and Debrusk to do this. Except they immediately backpedaled on the plan, promptly punted Sprong, and then told Debrusk to just be a pure netfront guy.

Tocc wants to win games 2-1. The problem with that being your gameplan, is that if you get a bad bounce or two, you lose 2-1. This is just how they're going to be. I still think they'll make the playoffs, and once Hronek is back then they will get better results with Hughes-Hronek able to carry crooked differentials to subsidize the rest of the team, but I think it's clear they're not really a threat to any real contender now. Last season was their shot.

 

[kanucks25]

It seems to be a designed strategy recently to keep our 3rd forward high at the blueline in the center. Multiple times we had 2 forwards down low and the 3rd was Center blueline. Pettersson and Miller this game. Boeser last game.

We are trading creativity for defensive positioning in the offensive zone - that 3rd forward that high may create som odd defensive issues for the defense but it relegated our offense to shots from the outside through traffic hoping for tips.

This really only happens a few times per game. It's not a team strategy, it's just one of the players (usually Boeser) trying to give the defense a different look / make it awkward for them to defend.

At the game tonight.

EP does so much on the ice that he doesn't get credit for. Active stick and defensively aware all night but wish he would drive more offense. He's far down the list of problems with the roster though.

Yeah not sure what the issue is. 6M AAV is great value for a guy like Petey that plays good defense and chips in offensively here and there.

It was as much of a schedule loss as it gets, so there's that.

The offensive generation problems are just how Tocc wants them to play. This is the team they are. If you're mad about it, well, you should have been mad about it 120 games ago. This is how they've always played under Tocc. Just the first half of last season it was masked by unsustainable shooting luck (despite many saying that they'd found a "new style" of play to maintain it). It's been pointed out that they don't create offense, over a year ago.

They made a big deal of "evolving" and trying to create more rush chances. They brought in guys like Sprong and Debrusk to do this. Except they immediately backpedaled on the plan, promptly punted Sprong, and then told Debrusk to just be a pure netfront guy.

Tocc wants to win games 2-1. The problem with that being your gameplan, is that if you get a bad bounce or two, you lose 2-1. This is just how they're going to be. I still think they'll make the playoffs, and once Hronek is back then they will get better results with Hughes-Hronek able to carry crooked differentials to subsidize the rest of the team, but I think it's clear they're not really a threat to any real contender now. Last season was their shot.

They went away from the new "style" early because it was a disaster. The players somehow forgot all basics when it came to forecheck rotations and transition defence. Again, how many players do they have on this roster that would really benefit from a run-and-gun style?

You let this roster loose and instead of losing 2-1 they'll lose 6-3. I don't think that's the better option. Has everyone just forgotten what the team looked like under the previous 2 coaches? Forwards cheating for offense, forwards lacking effort on backchecks, the entire roster struggling with defensive switches that teenagers should be able to grasp, etc. It was not better hockey.

Lack of quality D-men makes everything look worse than it is. Take a look at the standings and you'll see that almost every team ahead of the Canucks has 3 sure-fire top-4 guys on the roster and some have a solid #4 as well. The main exceptions are LA with Doughty being out and Spence and Clarke being young/unproven and Florida who have like Mikkola as their 3rd best guy but they have an incredible forward group to help alleviate some of that.

 

[JT Milker]

Pettersson being far down the list of problems because he plays tight defence while being pointless in his past 5 games is mega cope. Miller and Boeser simply dogshit too.

“Just play them with the best dman in the league then they can score” give me a break.

 

[ManVanFan]

Paging our top players?

 

[Else Ermine]

The offensive generation problems are just how Tocc wants them to play. This is the team they are. If you're mad about it, well, you should have been mad about it 120 games ago.

Fully agree. They're not currently playing it as well but it's the same general game plan and the same issues while trailing. The way the Nashville series went last year wasn't some random occurrence, that was "Canucks hockey".

As for the power play it's needed a significant change up all season, as more or less everyone has stated. Constantly. Regardless of the reason, if Pettersson isn't a threat to score one timers it's worth a go mixing the units up to give both him and Miller more time on the puck, especially with Hughes currently out there the whole time. If it doesn't work try something else out.

PS the Lotto Line has had a post-PK shift in both of the last two games. The idea two players can't share the ice if they're not besties is ridiculous.

 

[Quinning]

Tanner Jeannot f***ed our season. Boeser looks like the old broken Boeser from a few years ago

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Tanner Jeannot f***ed our season. Boeser looks like the old broken Boeser from a few years ago

Oh great, history is repeating itself .

Just watch...JT Miller is going to sucker punch Jeannot next game.

 

[Vector]

This loss broke me last night.

 

[ohnoeszz]

This really only happens a few times per game. It's not a team strategy, it's just one of the players (usually Boeser) trying to give the defense a different look / make it awkward for them to defend.

It's not an overarching strategy but I do think it's something they've talked about and implemented situationally.

In and of itself, it's not a big issue but it's another example of sacrificing the forwards for the defensemen and its a glaringly obvious one as its happening in the offensive zone while we have possession.