GDT: GM#27 LA Kings vs St. Louis Blues @5:00

[BigKing]

Herby:

My point was you didn't say the last three seasons, just DL/Sutter in general. I totally agree with that and especially last season when I felt bringing Sutter back was a huge mistake.

As for everyone else, I can say the same thing about the DL bashers who can't wait to coronate Blake. My dislike of him aside, it is a fact that he has not done very much yet and the biggest change is the on-ice play: not the personnel.

Sutter's exit and the impact it has made on the holdovers is the biggest difference between this year and last year. I'm not giving Blake zero credit, it's just way too early to be giving him too much credit, which I believe to be the case.

I hope he's the best GM this team ever has and I'll gladly say it if it happens. This team looked worse than last year for almost all of November but then the goaltending improved and DL mistake Gaborik came back and Blake is a genius again. It's too early is all. I haven't once called him a bad GM so, trust me, it's not a jilted lover scenario. I'm just going over the evidence before I give my verdict, unlike others

 

[Sol]

Why are people so afraid to admit that Blake is a better GM at this point than DL was in his final Years?

We're all kings fans first aren't we?

A lot of these players would have not been on this team if DL was around, and we wouldn't be playing a modern style either.

DL called the pens the flavor of the month. If that doesn't show you how out of touch he was, maybe Dwight King love affair does lol.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Why are people so afraid to admit that Blake is a better GM at this point than DL was in his final Years?

We're all kings fans first aren't we?

A lot of these players would have been on this team if DL was around, and we wouldn't be playing a modern style either.

DL called the pens the flavor of the month. If that doesn't show you how out of touch he was, maybe Dwight King love affair does lol.

I don't think it's that, I was just hoping to illustrate some dissonance.

We have people claiming Blake is more new-agey, but he still signed crusty old Cammalleri, then moved him for Jokinen, and now signed Torrey Mitchell. People who were calling the bottom six terrible (factually incorrect) are now praising a bottom six that has most of the same personnel PLUS crusty old vets.

We have people claiming Sutter wasn't new-agey enough, but had no problems calling up Dwight King and Jordan Nolan to bury Ethan Moreau and Trent Hunter, worked in Toffoli and Pearson when they were ready, and advocated for Kempe being up all year last year.

I think all BigKing is saying is people are quick to proclaim Blake a savior and DL/Sutter a dog when the moves aren't altogether TOO different, even utilization-wise. The system is certainly different, but the organizational philosophy is still in transformation.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here's the difference.

Blake was willing to be flexible and change things up.

Sutter and Lombardi were too stubborn to adapt. The Penguins being labeled as the "flavor of the month" by Lombardi is enough evidence to support these claims.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Here's the difference.

Blake was willing to be flexible and change things up.

Sutter and Lombardi were too stubborn to adapt. The Penguins being labeled as the "flavor of the month" by Lombardi is enough evidence to support these claims.

And if you can understand that the eggs don't go completely in one basket or the other, then my point isn't directed at you. That's more for the people who want to suggest that Blake has gone full youth movement and Sutter didn't play the kids, that the bottom six is now phenomenal but previously sucked, etc. Of which there are quite a few people on board.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And if you can understand that the eggs don't go completely in one basket or the other, then my point isn't directed at you. That's more for the people who want to suggest that Blake has gone full youth movement and Sutter didn't play the kids, that the bottom six is now phenomenal but previously sucked, etc. Of which there are quite a few people on board.

Oh I didn't think that nor was I offended or directly responding to you. I just wanted to reiterate what is different now versus then. Even with the majority of the same faces back, it is apparent that there is a philosophical difference within the organization and coaching ranks between the current regime and the previous regime.

Even Mike Futa supported this when he disclosed that now they are looking more at prospects they may have passed over under previous management.

 

[Bandit]

Kings vs. Blues or Lombardi vs. Blake? Must have taken a right turn at Albuquerque.

 

[Docgonzo]

Biggest differences between DL/Sutter vs Blake/Stevens I’ve seen is Iaffalo put on the first line right out of camp. I feel DL/Sutter would’ve made him earn his ice time more by playing in AHL or 3rd/4th line duty. Also, I know it’s probably because Carter got hurt, but we’ve had a lot more call ups this year and letting new kids getting a taste than previous years where I feel we’d just keep using the same roster. I don’t believe Auger, Amadio or Crescenziwould’ve been called up in previous years for a few games and then be sent down.

 

[BigKing]

It's tough because DL said it was time to do things differently and did not mortgage the future to try and save last year's roster but then never got a chance to implement a shift in philosophy because it needed to happen prior to last season; instead, he sealed his fate by bringing Sutter back. The "old way" wasn't working and those guys got canned. New guy comes in and does a couple things differently, enjoys a 1st place team at the start of December that is centered on the existing best players playing to potential and now the new guy is a better GM? It just doesn't work that way, in my opinion.

I can get on board Iafallo being put on the 1st line as a big difference, but that isn't a Blake/Lombardi decision unless those guys were also the coach so, again, it is Sutter's departure that is the main reason for that. I give Blake zero credit for Iafallo being on the 1st line but he closed that signing so I've given him credit numerous times for doing so; however, my issue is with the zero evidence "Lombardi never would have..." reasoning behind much of the Blake praise. You know who Iafallo is a lot like? Trevor Lewis. You know who are pretty big fans of Trevor Lewis? Dean Lombardi and Darryl Sutter. Fantenberg is a guy that probably doesn't get signed by DL or played by Sutter: not Iafallo. That being said, Blake signed him and I'm glad he did. It is the best roster move he has made so far.

It is no secret that I don't like Rob Blake so, yes, I will be quick to throw cold water on hot takes. I will have no problem with giving him full credit when full credit is due. I liked the Jokinen trade when it went down because Cam was trash and did zero for the bottom lines. Full marks to Blake for realizing a mistake and correcting it quickly. I'm not a big Mitchell fan but face offs have been an issue so he's looking to upgrade there at a minimal cost. I kind of prefer the draft pick over Mitchell but one in the hand is worth two in the bush a lot of times with later round picks. My only issue with it is that DL would have been raked over the coals for trading futures for a 4th liner.

As for admitting Blake is a better GM than DL was in his final years...this isn't a black and white world. DL's challenges were much different than Blake's. If you can't see that, then you just don't get it, regardless of the fact that it is way too early to make any real judgment on Blake's ability as a GM. It's like a redraft the 2017 draft thread that gets started in November.

It has gone well so far. Best thing he has done is Iafallo and then not getting too crazy by flipping everything upside down. He's pretty much stayed the course, kept the same staff and installed the hand-picked successor to Sutter. The main hope for this team going into the year was for the existing money guys on this team to play up to potential under the premise of they were burned out and done playing Sutter hockey. Doughty said as much while in the same breath saying that DL didn't need to go. That is the main reason for what we are seeing out there but kudos to Blake for not upsetting the apple cart. GMs get graded on the moves they don't make as well so I give him credit for not coming in and trying to put his stamp on this team.

Also, I hate to be a downer here, but what was the Kings record in 2015 at this point of the season, the last season Quick was healthy? Did November not happen? It's things like this that leads me to pump the brakes on some of this talk. Am I quicker to pump said brakes because of my dislike for Blake? Definitely. Doesn't mean that a lot of you aren't doing 50 on a residential street.

 

[Sol]

It's pretty black and white for me. Stevens was under Sutter/Lombardi, if they wanted to play like this they would have made attempts to do so.

Blake right now has greenlighted, or implemented a new style with Stevens to play like this.

Sutter and Lombardi are both gone because they refused to change, and again, to call the pens the flavor of the month showed the disconnect he had with the game.

They both did a lot for our team and gave us great success, but they were both dinosaurs who refused to adapt.

They were let go for that reason.

Our line up wouldn't be like this with the old regime.

Not even close. I doubt youd see. Brodzinski, Iafallo, and Fantenberg on this team.

The game has changed, hence why I think it's pretty black and white that Blake&Stevens are better than final few years of Lombardi&Sutter because they embraced the adaptation of the game and didn't fight it.

 

[kings11]

It's tough because DL said it was time to do things differently and did not mortgage the future to try and save last year's roster but then never got a chance to implement a shift in philosophy because it needed to happen prior to last season; instead, he sealed his fate by bringing Sutter back. The "old way" wasn't working and those guys got canned. New guy comes in and does a couple things differently, enjoys a 1st place team at the start of December that is centered on the existing best players playing to potential and now the new guy is a better GM? It just doesn't work that way, in my opinion.

I can get on board Iafallo being put on the 1st line as a big difference, but that isn't a Blake/Lombardi decision unless those guys were also the coach so, again, it is Sutter's departure that is the main reason for that. I give Blake zero credit for Iafallo being on the 1st line but he closed that signing so I've given him credit numerous times for doing so; however, my issue is with the zero evidence "Lombardi never would have..." reasoning behind much of the Blake praise. You know who Iafallo is a lot like? Trevor Lewis. You know who are pretty big fans of Trevor Lewis? Dean Lombardi and Darryl Sutter. Fantenberg is a guy that probably doesn't get signed by DL or played by Sutter: not Iafallo. That being said, Blake signed him and I'm glad he did. It is the best roster move he has made so far.

It is no secret that I don't like Rob Blake so, yes, I will be quick to throw cold water on hot takes. I will have no problem with giving him full credit when full credit is due. I liked the Jokinen trade when it went down because Cam was trash and did zero for the bottom lines. Full marks to Blake for realizing a mistake and correcting it quickly. I'm not a big Mitchell fan but face offs have been an issue so he's looking to upgrade there at a minimal cost. I kind of prefer the draft pick over Mitchell but one in the hand is worth two in the bush a lot of times with later round picks. My only issue with it is that DL would have been raked over the coals for trading futures for a 4th liner.

As for admitting Blake is a better GM than DL was in his final years...this isn't a black and white world. DL's challenges were much different than Blake's. If you can't see that, then you just don't get it, regardless of the fact that it is way too early to make any real judgment on Blake's ability as a GM. It's like a redraft the 2017 draft thread that gets started in November.

It has gone well so far. Best thing he has done is Iafallo and then not getting too crazy by flipping everything upside down. He's pretty much stayed the course, kept the same staff and installed the hand-picked successor to Sutter. The main hope for this team going into the year was for the existing money guys on this team to play up to potential under the premise of they were burned out and done playing Sutter hockey. Doughty said as much while in the same breath saying that DL didn't need to go. That is the main reason for what we are seeing out there but kudos to Blake for not upsetting the apple cart. GMs get graded on the moves they don't make as well so I give him credit for not coming in and trying to put his stamp on this team.

Also, I hate to be a downer here, but what was the Kings record in 2015 at this point of the season, the last season Quick was healthy? Did November not happen? It's things like this that leads me to pump the brakes on some of this talk. Am I quicker to pump said brakes because of my dislike for Blake? Definitely. Doesn't mean that a lot of you aren't doing 50 on a residential street.

You mean the season the Kings lost Voynov, traded for and lost Sekera (bad trade), Muzzin began his regression, we still had Still and Richards (both fell off badly) and we relied on Greene and Regher... and yet missed the POs by 2 points, that team???
All kidding aside, the two teams have a completely different chemistry, feel and motivation. This team feels like the 2014 team that never gives up regardless of the score (almost came back vs TB) and we've beaten ourself in all but a couple of games literally. The more the season goes on the better "I" feel tis team will get, I mean we have a rookie LW on the top line, a 4th center on the 2nd line, a rookie C on the 3rd line and and a player we've all given up on in Gaborik who have far exceeded our expectations... Granted our defense needs to better either by trade, call-up or stepping up, the goalies have been outstanding... we went from being the smash mouth Pittsburg Steelers to the Chip Kelly uptempo offense.... meaning, give it time BK, we should know more once Carter is back but i'll side with being overly optimistic... GKG

 

[BigKing]

It's pretty black and white for me. Stevens was under Sutter/Lombardi, if they wanted to play like this they would have made attempts to do so.

Blake right now has greenlighted, or implemented a new style with Stevens to play like this.

Sutter and Lombardi are both gone because they refused to change, and again, to call the pens the flavor of the month showed the disconnect he had with the game.

They both did a lot for our team and gave us great success, but they were both dinosaurs who refused to adapt.

They were let go for that reason.

Our line up wouldn't be like this with the old regime.

Not even close. I doubt youd see. Brodzinski, Iafallo, and Fantenberg on this team.

The game has changed, hence why I think it's pretty black and white that Blake&Stevens are better than final few years of Lombardi&Sutter because they embraced the adaptation of the game and didn't fight it.

They have a new coach. Correct. Sutter's exit is the main reason for the improved record, along with a healthy Quick and a much better back-up than Zatkoff. Kudos to Blake for signing Keumper.

"Greenlit a system". Yeah...they hired a new coach. AEG greenlit a new system when they fired Sutter. Just because you are an assistant under a guy, doesn't mean you are said guy. Flyers didn't play "Sutter Hockey" under Stevens so the belief it would be more of the same was just unfounded fears from the get go.

Brodz played last season. Fantenberg is not special. Iafallo is the key Blake addition to this team. These names, even Iafallo, are a giant "so what?" when compared to Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty etc.

I was on board for Stevens before the hire; not because I think he is a hockey genius but just due to a level of continuity and because the players liked him. Unless this roster was going to be flipped upside down, the only chance it had of competing was to have its best players play up to their potential, or past it, if possible. They are doing that right now and that is why they are where they are.

Again, credit to Blake for not f***ing it up while picking up Iafallo and correcting his Cam mistake. I completely understand if you think Blake doing little so far is being a better GM than Lombardi over the last few seasons as you could probably argue doing nothing at all would be better. It's just a ridiculous comparison, in my opinion, to compare three years--under very different circumstances--to two months of on-ice product and make a definitive claim. If you go through my post history, you'll even see that I'm not really a DL apologist and I was ready to show him the door prior to 2012 as I was tired of "Cap Space" being our best player.

Perspective is nice some times but I understand I'm looking in the wrong place for it on an internet message board that continues to further mirror the black/white, hot take world we are now living in.

K11- My mistake. I meant December of 2015, so I should have said "at this point of the 2016 season" as opposed to the actual time period, which was December of 2015. Of course, I feel that the 2015 team was better than the 2016 team and was fully on-board for the Sekera trade as I completely believed they would make the playoffs and do damage as they had the previous three seasons, but that's another story.

 

[KINGS17]

Big King is pretty much on target with his last couple of posts.

I give Blake credit for taking a shot with Iaffalo and the quick elimination of Cammalleri from the roster for Jokinen. Now that was a Lombardi/Sutter flavor trade.

Dean made his friend Daryl a promise, and he stuck with him. The players decided it was time for a new coach and made it happen with mediocre play. The biggest difference this season: a healthy Quick, and a 1C who is earning his paycheck.

 

[Sol]

They have a new coach. Correct. Sutter's exit is the main reason for the improved record, along with a healthy Quick and a much better back-up than Zatkoff. Kudos to Blake for signing Keumper.

"Greenlit a system". Yeah...they hired a new coach. AEG greenlit a new system when they fired Sutter. Just because you are an assistant under a guy, doesn't mean you are said guy. Flyers didn't play "Sutter Hockey" under Stevens so the belief it would be more of the same was just unfounded fears from the get go.

Brodz played last season. Fantenberg is not special. Iafallo is the key Blake addition to this team. These names, even Iafallo, are a giant "so what?" when compared to Kopitar, Quick, Brown, Doughty etc.

I was on board for Stevens before the hire; not because I think he is a hockey genius but just due to a level of continuity and because the players liked him. Unless this roster was going to be flipped upside down, the only chance it had of competing was to have its best players play up to their potential, or past it, if possible. They are doing that right now and that is why they are where they are.

Again, credit to Blake for not ****ing it up while picking up Iafallo and correcting his Cam mistake. I completely understand if you think Blake doing little so far is being a better GM than Lombardi over the last few seasons as you could probably argue doing nothing at all would be better. It's just a ridiculous comparison, in my opinion, to compare three years--under very different circumstances--to two months of on-ice product and make a definitive claim. If you go through my post history, you'll even see that I'm not really a DL apologist and I was ready to show him the door prior to 2012 as I was tired of "Cap Space" being our best player.

Perspective is nice some times but I understand I'm looking in the wrong place for it on an internet message board that continues to further mirror the black/white, hot take world we are now living in.

K11- My mistake. I meant December of 2015, so I should have said "at this point of the 2016 season" as opposed to the actual time period, which was December of 2015. Of course, I feel that the 2015 team was better than the 2016 team and was fully on-board for the Sekera trade as I completely believed they would make the playoffs and do damage as they had the previous three seasons, but that's another story.

I know what you mean, Blake hasn't had a long time to compare the two, but I think where I disagree with you is here; Blake came in and didn't make panic moves to implement a new style to this team which I give him credit for. He added players from a broad spectrum something DL didn't do. He added pieces to compliment the direction of the team. Also, he got players to see what works and what didn't.

So you can say Blake hasn't done a lot in terms of trading players, but I think in principle his moves as a whole is very different than something DL would do. I credit him for not panicking, and looking at broad options rather than a narrow one.

DL with solid evidence wasn't going to implement this style nor was he the kind of guy who picked players from across the spectrum. He and Sutter were through AHL tenure for the most part that's where they'd get their players, whether there were better optionw or not.

I think Blake fundamentally is much more different than DL, and it's helped the team a lot.

But you're right, it's too quick to say Blake is amazing, but he's a step in the right direction for sure.

I'm personally curious to see how future contracts are handled by him, and how big trades look for him.

 

[Fishhead]

It takes years to assess a GM.

Blake has made some nice moves, and I'm happy for it. Too early to say he's good or bad though. It's a certainty that a lot of what he does is directly influenced by working with DL.

You could easily say DL wouldn't have went hard after Iafallo or Fantenberg, but you could also easily say he would have made a much better signing than Cammy (who he never would have signed). There was one single thing that DL did to seal his own fate, and that was retaining Sutter. If he turned the reins over to Stevens, he would likely still be here. Firing Terry Murray, as hard as it was for him, led to success. Firing Sutter could have done the same, but the same fierce loyalty that brought the team together to win was also his downfall.

 

[Riposte!]

FYI, the Kings brought Fantenberg in from Russia/Sweden during last season as they were scouting him to try and woo him to sign in the off season. Jim and Alex even relayed a whole story about how the Kings were trying to keep it a secret that he was meeting with the team and then he appeared on camera during a segment with Bob Miller during a game. So I'd call the Fantenberg signing much more DL than Blake.

 

[Sol]

FYI, the Kings brought Fantenberg in from Russia/Sweden during last season as they were scouting him to try and woo him to sign in the off season. Jim and Alex even relayed a whole story about how the Kings were trying to keep it a secret that he was meeting with the team and then he appeared on camera during a segment with Bob Miller during a game. So I'd call the Fantenberg signing much more DL than Blake.

Well he signed under Blake, so it's hard to say since that would be really uncharacteristic of DL to sign a player like that, or even play him straight in the NHL.

Regardless, I like Blake. I think he will pan out to be a solid GM for us.

 

[BigKing]

I'm still buying three season seats along with the four that are bought from me by two friends and my parents. If I'm in town, I'm generally at the games be it the weekend or during the week.

Believe me when I say I hope Blake is the best GM this team ever has. I'd love to be able to say it. Hell, I hope to just look back on this season and the next off-season and simply say he's been really good so far.

I'm critical of anyone and everything when it is warranted. Lombardi was no different. I haven't really been critical of Blake's work so far because he's been just fine and the sample size is too small; however, I'm not one to just lavish praise and make bold statements based primarily on how I feel or what I hope happens.

Except for MacDermid. He can do no wrong even when he slowly pinches way too deep in the offensive zone. Don't even bring it up.

 

[tny760]

Except for MacDermid. He can do no wrong even when he slowly pinches way too deep in the offensive zone. Don't even bring it up.

i mean he's +4 on the year in limited deployment so i'm not too hurt about it

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

i mean he's +4 on the year in limited deployment so i'm not too hurt about it

I know this board hates advanced stats but it matches the eye test, MacD is getting absolutely murdered out there despite the softest minutes, deployment, and competition on the team.

There's a lot of potential and he's a rookie/new toy and he's mean so people are willing to give him a lot of rope but statistically he's Rob Scuderi minus 12 minutes a game.

 

[tny760]

me like mongo smash though

 

[HookKing]

I know this board hates advanced stats but it matches the eye test, MacD is getting absolutely murdered out there despite the softest minutes, deployment, and competition on the team.

There's a lot of potential and he's a rookie/new toy and he's mean so people are willing to give him a lot of rope but statistically he's Rob Scuderi minus 12 minutes a game.

He's only "out there" because Clifford and Andreoff are out and Nolan is long gone.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He's only "out there" because Clifford and Andreoff are out and Nolan is long gone.

You're going to tell me MacD is only in the lineups on nights Clifford and Andreoff aren't?

I'm pretty sure I won't have to look through many game logs to find that's inaccurate.

And frankly it's a bigger problem because we're only playing 6 d so if he can't handle more than 8 minutes that hurts everyone. And so far, he's barely passable in those minutes, so that needs to improve.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Blake signs some guys on the legwork of Dean's scouts, and all of a sudden he's a better GM. What a joke.

Big King is spot on.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blake signs some guys on the legwork of Dean's scouts, and all of a sudden he's a better GM. What a joke.

Big King is spot on.

So then, what should Blake be blamed for then? And what does he deserve credit for?