Post-Game Talk: [GM 13] Canucks defeat Senators | 6-4 | Horvat (2), Mikheyev, OEL, Studnicka, & Pettersson
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Aphid Attraction
Registered User
- Jan 17, 2013
- 5,076
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Now Im confused but Im gonna back down just incase you are an actual ufc champion.
You sir have made a smart decision.
Breakers
Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
When the shot clock reached 30-8 with 16 minutes left in the 2nd…. I was like Canucks are going to be the first team to fire a coach during the game.
geebaan
7th round busted
- Oct 27, 2012
- 10,565
- 9,326
And then we won somehow. Like I’m probably gonna take a step back for awhile cause I honestly just don’t care right now.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Obviously had the flashy goal, but outside of that by far Mikheyev's worst game.
He was fighting the puck, and cant give or receive a pass. And his skating just isn't there. Obviously his knee is still bothering him, so I expect his skating to sort it self out in the long run. Puck dies on his blade in the Ozone. Please take him off of EPs and Kuz's line so we can have 1 line that can actually sustain puck possession in the opposing end.
But submitting from your back a ton. Big Nogs entire game was getting punched in the face on his back until he would snatch an arm or a triangle choke. Obviously isn't conducive to a healthy retirement...
He was fighting the puck, and cant give or receive a pass. And his skating just isn't there. Obviously his knee is still bothering him, so I expect his skating to sort it self out in the long run. Puck dies on his blade in the Ozone. Please take him off of EPs and Kuz's line so we can have 1 line that can actually sustain puck possession in the opposing end.
Very rarely striking from their back... Some bizarre up kick knockouts maybe.
But submitting from your back a ton. Big Nogs entire game was getting punched in the face on his back until he would snatch an arm or a triangle choke. Obviously isn't conducive to a healthy retirement...
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
- 5,943
- 9,243
I know we won, but I'm confused as to how they can show up so lifelessly.
Martin was good and the Sens were snakebit. That game could have been OVER 5 minutes in, no exaggeration.
Martin was very good.
Schenn looked decent.
Hughes was very uneven. I'm convinced he's playing with a groin injury. At his size and agility, so much of his game is driven through his legs and he doesn't look like he trusts them.
OEL looks slightly better, but if this is what he is and it's not injury it's catastrophe at his cap hit.
Bear has looked good, this was a bad game. It was like he lost the Carolina sheen and became a Canuck tonight, and I mean that negatively (though I'm not actually that pessimistic about him).
I don't see it with Rathbone at all thus far. He looks overwhelmed. I'm not saying he can't figure it out as each league has different timing and one has to match their instincts to the league (if he can process the game that quickly), but thus far he is not an NHL D. He just isn't. NHL top 6ers are so shifty because they are basically making 8 feints for every move they make, and Rathbone falls for the first one almost every time.
Myers has to have been the worst defence man in the league this year. I want you to isolate him next game, watch his defensive reads, and even more egregiously, his puck touches. Like he isn't trying to do the right thing and making a mistake. He's trying to do unconscionable things and failing. He panics and dumps the puck when he has oodles of space. I can only hope it's still injury causing him to play this poorly.
Our best 3rd pairing (assuming 43-2, 23-74 for top 2 pairings) is probably Dermott and Burroughs at this point.
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Miller pisses me right off. He just feels like he plays for the name on the back. He puts up a bunch of empty calorie points, but I really resent that we bet on him instead of Bo.
Pearson tries to do the right thing, but he hasn't been very good this year.
Brock looked a tiny bit more relevant today, but currently he isn't contributing much.
Bo is looking good, but a lot of people are overly wowed by his goals. He's not playing as well as he has in the past, but the puck is going in an awful lot. Almost like a Chris Kreider year.
I don't want to deal him, but we probably have to. I'd like to think we can leverage his incredible start to get a great return, but when has that ever happened for us?
Podkolzin looks terrible. He had a couple of glimpses, but he looks night and day worse than the latter half of last year. Gripping the stick far too tight and lots of perimeter play.
Garland gets a lot of attention because he's fun to watch when he spins and every positive thing he does is like an underdog story, but I'm not sure he has a place on a winning team. Almost everything he does that is productive is against the run of the play, he doesn't really utilize his teammates properly and is basically never a part of an effective cycle. Isn't a pker and isn't great on the pp. I would look to deal him if we can get something of value. Maybe a team in the east who is struggling to score would give us an okay D or a stout 3rd liner for him.
Mikheyev didn't have a great first half at all, was handling it like a hand grenade. But that goal was shades of Max Afinogenov (random example, I know, but he was a personal favorite with incredible speed). And looked good thereafter. He really adds a much needed element to this team with his speed and it's starting to come together for him.
Petey didn't have an especially prominent game and made a couple of mistakes but he still stands out on this team so much. Incredible hockey sense, so frequently making really neat, high-percentage, high IQ plays. I really hope he signs here long term. My favorite player in the league.
Kuzmenko had possibly his most invisible game of the year, but as someone is adjusting to the league you take the good with the bad. Didn't worry me.
4th line has been consistently decent. I like the bet on Studnicka a lot. He's fast, tenacious, and seems like he just needs to believe in himself. I think that goal will be good for him.
Aman and Joshua as well provide competent presence and have been overplayed because of long stretches where Bruce can't trust anyone else.
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I like Bruce but it seems clear that he is only here because of one of two reasons.
1. Aquillinis are being cheap.
2. Aquillinis are afraid of blowback since the fans like him.
Either way, it's appalling leadership that we have our coach answering for our president constantly sniping him in the press. The fish rots from the head first, and our ownership is clearly incredibly toxic and that just gets passed down.
However, Rutherford's 'with the right structure it doesn't matter who your D personnel is' statement is two things simultaneously.
1. Snakey for leadership to skirt their inability to address one of the worst D corps in the league by blaming someone else.
2. He's not wrong that this team's culture looks f***ed and our systems play is appalling.
I like Bruce but I've never liked Yeo at all. I have only ever watched him get far less from his teams than he should have in Minnesota and St Louis.
King does not have my faith. Our special teams look brutal under him (pp success should be expected with our personnel. PK is historically bad AGAIN).
So in that way, maybe it's time to let Bruce go since he did choose his assistant coaches.
I think we'll win tomorrow, and you can see that if the guys start pulling on the same rope we're a decent team. But we need clarity. Finishing 15th and losing Bo for nothing is catastrophe (this is a recording from last year).
So make the playoffs and accrue some experience for the young core members, or get a high pick. And make that assessment within the next 15 games. Period.
Martin was good and the Sens were snakebit. That game could have been OVER 5 minutes in, no exaggeration.
Martin was very good.
Schenn looked decent.
Hughes was very uneven. I'm convinced he's playing with a groin injury. At his size and agility, so much of his game is driven through his legs and he doesn't look like he trusts them.
OEL looks slightly better, but if this is what he is and it's not injury it's catastrophe at his cap hit.
Bear has looked good, this was a bad game. It was like he lost the Carolina sheen and became a Canuck tonight, and I mean that negatively (though I'm not actually that pessimistic about him).
I don't see it with Rathbone at all thus far. He looks overwhelmed. I'm not saying he can't figure it out as each league has different timing and one has to match their instincts to the league (if he can process the game that quickly), but thus far he is not an NHL D. He just isn't. NHL top 6ers are so shifty because they are basically making 8 feints for every move they make, and Rathbone falls for the first one almost every time.
Myers has to have been the worst defence man in the league this year. I want you to isolate him next game, watch his defensive reads, and even more egregiously, his puck touches. Like he isn't trying to do the right thing and making a mistake. He's trying to do unconscionable things and failing. He panics and dumps the puck when he has oodles of space. I can only hope it's still injury causing him to play this poorly.
Our best 3rd pairing (assuming 43-2, 23-74 for top 2 pairings) is probably Dermott and Burroughs at this point.
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Miller pisses me right off. He just feels like he plays for the name on the back. He puts up a bunch of empty calorie points, but I really resent that we bet on him instead of Bo.
Pearson tries to do the right thing, but he hasn't been very good this year.
Brock looked a tiny bit more relevant today, but currently he isn't contributing much.
Bo is looking good, but a lot of people are overly wowed by his goals. He's not playing as well as he has in the past, but the puck is going in an awful lot. Almost like a Chris Kreider year.
I don't want to deal him, but we probably have to. I'd like to think we can leverage his incredible start to get a great return, but when has that ever happened for us?
Podkolzin looks terrible. He had a couple of glimpses, but he looks night and day worse than the latter half of last year. Gripping the stick far too tight and lots of perimeter play.
Garland gets a lot of attention because he's fun to watch when he spins and every positive thing he does is like an underdog story, but I'm not sure he has a place on a winning team. Almost everything he does that is productive is against the run of the play, he doesn't really utilize his teammates properly and is basically never a part of an effective cycle. Isn't a pker and isn't great on the pp. I would look to deal him if we can get something of value. Maybe a team in the east who is struggling to score would give us an okay D or a stout 3rd liner for him.
Mikheyev didn't have a great first half at all, was handling it like a hand grenade. But that goal was shades of Max Afinogenov (random example, I know, but he was a personal favorite with incredible speed). And looked good thereafter. He really adds a much needed element to this team with his speed and it's starting to come together for him.
Petey didn't have an especially prominent game and made a couple of mistakes but he still stands out on this team so much. Incredible hockey sense, so frequently making really neat, high-percentage, high IQ plays. I really hope he signs here long term. My favorite player in the league.
Kuzmenko had possibly his most invisible game of the year, but as someone is adjusting to the league you take the good with the bad. Didn't worry me.
4th line has been consistently decent. I like the bet on Studnicka a lot. He's fast, tenacious, and seems like he just needs to believe in himself. I think that goal will be good for him.
Aman and Joshua as well provide competent presence and have been overplayed because of long stretches where Bruce can't trust anyone else.
--
I like Bruce but it seems clear that he is only here because of one of two reasons.
1. Aquillinis are being cheap.
2. Aquillinis are afraid of blowback since the fans like him.
Either way, it's appalling leadership that we have our coach answering for our president constantly sniping him in the press. The fish rots from the head first, and our ownership is clearly incredibly toxic and that just gets passed down.
However, Rutherford's 'with the right structure it doesn't matter who your D personnel is' statement is two things simultaneously.
1. Snakey for leadership to skirt their inability to address one of the worst D corps in the league by blaming someone else.
2. He's not wrong that this team's culture looks f***ed and our systems play is appalling.
I like Bruce but I've never liked Yeo at all. I have only ever watched him get far less from his teams than he should have in Minnesota and St Louis.
King does not have my faith. Our special teams look brutal under him (pp success should be expected with our personnel. PK is historically bad AGAIN).
So in that way, maybe it's time to let Bruce go since he did choose his assistant coaches.
I think we'll win tomorrow, and you can see that if the guys start pulling on the same rope we're a decent team. But we need clarity. Finishing 15th and losing Bo for nothing is catastrophe (this is a recording from last year).
So make the playoffs and accrue some experience for the young core members, or get a high pick. And make that assessment within the next 15 games. Period.
I wasn’t expecting to go to this game, but ultimately one of my kids said he’d come with me so we went… for two periods, then missed all the hectic action in the third. 
The atmosphere was as subdued as I’ve ever seen in one of these games. Compared to the Gillis years, when it was a big party for Canuck fans and the Senators were still competitive, it was sleeeeepy.
The atmosphere was as subdued as I’ve ever seen in one of these games. Compared to the Gillis years, when it was a big party for Canuck fans and the Senators were still competitive, it was sleeeeepy.
Sharkbomb
Registered User
- Jul 20, 2022
- 493
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I think its wild how this team can score 6 or even 8 goals, have a multigoal lead with 4 freaking minutes to go and I still feel tense and like their odds of winning are no better than 50/50. The team is so awful playing with a man disadvantage that when the other team pulls its goalie I feel like we are playing empty net vs empty net.
Martin has been good, Demko has been bad, but the general awfulness of the defense makes me feel as vulnerable when the other team is attacking as I used to feel back in the Dan Cloutier days.
The team is on a 4-1-1 run, which is objectively good, but they are also playing objectively bad. We seriously have the top contender for the best worse team. There it is, not.
Martin has been good, Demko has been bad, but the general awfulness of the defense makes me feel as vulnerable when the other team is attacking as I used to feel back in the Dan Cloutier days.
The team is on a 4-1-1 run, which is objectively good, but they are also playing objectively bad. We seriously have the top contender for the best worse team. There it is, not.
The thing to keep in mind with this team and the offense right now is that most of the forward are well above career SH%. If I look at a guy like Draisatl who is likely the most efficient goal scorer in the league the last few years he sits at a very high 19.4 SH%. Horvat is flying at over 25% vs a career of about 13% (which is still at the mid to upper end).
The issue for me is the wins against Seattle and Ottawa last night don't seem to have come from actual good play but rather managing to take advantage of goaltending that was poorer than their own goaltending. Even average goaltending games from the opposition results in clear losses.
And I think that ultimately is the problem I see with this team. Even when the goaltending rights itself (I think it will even if I don't know when) and even if the PK rights itself (not sure here because the bulk of the last 90+ games it's been bad) some other thing will bite them. the SH% will drop. The opposition goaltending will stymie them.
The issue for me is the wins against Seattle and Ottawa last night don't seem to have come from actual good play but rather managing to take advantage of goaltending that was poorer than their own goaltending. Even average goaltending games from the opposition results in clear losses.
And I think that ultimately is the problem I see with this team. Even when the goaltending rights itself (I think it will even if I don't know when) and even if the PK rights itself (not sure here because the bulk of the last 90+ games it's been bad) some other thing will bite them. the SH% will drop. The opposition goaltending will stymie them.
vadim sharifijanov
Registered User
- Oct 10, 2007
- 30,339
- 19,054
in the summer i thought we had to retain boeser one way or another given the circumstances, to keep morale in the room. i actually was pleasantly surprised we got his hit down vs qualifying him at that ungodly number.
but after the start to this season, i now am wondering whether there isn’t a cameraderie or family dynamic in this team worth saving anyway, in a purely hockey not human sense. ie, most of the players it would demoralize and cut off trust with probably need to be gone anyway. and it’s not hard to say to a player who has regressed that much, obviously we can’t qualify you at that number, Nd given the injuries we also can’t make a multiyear commitment. but we love you, wish you the best, and will find you a good landing spot instead of dumping you in arizona.
that said, i am happy boeser is here and i cheer for him. of anyone on this team i have the largest emotional connection to him. petey is the best player, technically. hughes has the highest ceiling and probably is the best player, objectively. demko is the most impactful, when he isn’t… this. but to me boeser is the one i’m most fond of and the one who makes me the most happy when he is on his game.
oh mad max. if we could combine afinogenov’s hands with mikheyev’s willingness to cut inside and drive to the net…
there is a third possibility here: despite the team and all the information being right under his nose, francesco has the instincts of a casual. so of course he loves bruce and wants to keep him. he is stupid.
(not to say casuals are stupid, just that their investment is casual and so they don’t pay close attention. frankie pays close attention, or at least he should be, but still comes to the lazy, surface conclusion because he is stupid.)
I wasn’t expecting to go to this game, but ultimately one of my kids said he’d come with me so we went… for two periods, then missed all the hectic action in the third.
The atmosphere was as subdued as I’ve ever seen in one of these games. Compared to the Gillis years, when it was a big party for Canuck fans and the Senators were still competitive, it was sleeeeepy.
this game was the opposite for me. early game here so my kid could watch with me. this means i don’t get to watch closely or see any of the nuances, and we missed the first because afterschool pickup, only half watched the second because dinner, but we saw the third. lots of goals, lots of excitement, he got to watch to the end and finally see us win one.
A+ night
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 4,074
- 1,994
logan5
Registered User
Disagree with a lot of the takes on Podz here. Markus Naslund called him a perimeter player but the guy fearlessly charges towards the boards to retrieve pucks, which was instrumental on one of the goals. He’s sticks his nose in the front of the net.
On Garland, he seems ti be one of the few players who has been ratcheting it up while thevteam had been down. That play on the Horvat goal was world class, evading a checker behind the net then threading a pass to Horvat. That was done at a speed few others can match.
On Garland, he seems ti be one of the few players who has been ratcheting it up while thevteam had been down. That play on the Horvat goal was world class, evading a checker behind the net then threading a pass to Horvat. That was done at a speed few others can match.
Diversification
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
- 3,510
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The Canucks have a flawed roster. Their main problem is that most of the forwards are not fast enough to support our weaker defense corps it's made worse by poor defensive habits up and down the lineup. Without superb goaltending to cover up the warts, this is the result. So, no, it's not mental obstacles per se so much as Demko failing to pull our team out of the fire time and time again. In fact, his play has experienced such a dip that perhaps he's even contributing to the problem. I mean, that's how you get a PK that's at sub-50 (FIFTY!) percent.
I agree with a fair bit of this, but I disagree on a few players.
Bo is having his best year ever right now, maybe because it is a contract year, but his entire play seems elevated. His passing seems better, making some good plays to his wingers and he is going to the dirty areas to score.
Garland fits on Bo's line so well. They are both players off the rush who don't do the cycle game and they seem to feed off one another. We need to keep Bo (trade Miller) and keep Garland as his primary winger. Just like finding a way to keep Kuzmenko with EP.
Brock had a decent game and if he can string more together, A team like Buffalo may decide to trade for him and give us the cap for Kuzmenko.
As for JR's comment about structure. Pittsburgh won 2 cups in a row with questionable D, since Letang was pretty much out for one entire playoff run. So, there is some truth there.
King is trash and needs to be the first coach fired. Our PP does well despite him, not thanks to him. Unfortunately, we likely won't be bad enough to get a top 5 pick but won't be good enough to make playoffs again. Maybe we cna get in a good enough draft postion to get Cameron Allen...maybe.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 27,696
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It's honestly almost hilarious, how this team only seems to win when they play worse hockey. Like, if you're the coach...what do you even say? They'll play 40 really good minutes and lose, repeatedly. Then basically dogf*** for 40 minutes, get a few breaks and win? The reinforcement isn't aligning with the effort. That's a tough thing to coach around.
Podkolzin's situation is even more confusing, considering he came into the preseason and even early part of the actual season looking like he was going to pick up right where he left off. Have to wonder if we have yet another fragile "confidence" sort of player on our hands. He certainly seems to play his best hockey when he's on a roll and playing "loose". Seems like the more he "thinks", and the more he tries to do, the less he actually contributes.
I'm inclined to say...just throw him up there with Pettersson+Kuzmenko, and see if that "carrot" gets him going again. But who knows.
Yeah. There were people at the time of the trade getting way ahead of the cart with Studnicka, but this looks like the player we realistically "hoped" to get here. He's not remarkable in any way, but if he can give you good solid bottom-6 minutes with consistent effort on a cheap contract, that's a win.
This guy is basically the root of the Canucks defence corps problems. Both in a microcosm within a game, but on a macro scale as well. His contract just makes it impossible to build a functional blueline. He's paid like a guy who can "anchor" a solid pairing...when in reality, he's just a f***ing anchor.
The only functional hockey he's played here, was a stretch with OEL carrying his ass. Somehow he found enough stability in that pairing to calm a few of his "chaos giraffe" instincts. But you can't have a $6M guy who needs babysitting. Especially not when the babysitter is playing like he's damaged.
Priority numero uno, has to be getting rid of this guy and his contract. You cannot afford a $6M guy who is regularly outplayed by <$1M depth guys.
It's definitely easy to see why coaches don't ever give this guy "a fair chance". Every time they do, he shows us why they don't. There's clearly offensive skill there...but the day and age of the "PP Specialist" defenceman is over and gone. Being good at the offensive end of the ice just isn't enough anymore. If he can't show more in transition, i don't really know what the point of him is. I really think this is a player that you have to try to move, and soon, because he's not going to bolster his value significantly playing with this team in this situation. There are teams that could use what he offers, but it's useless here.
Lurching is a good descriptor of Myers play.
I don't think there's any real doubt about the way Podkolzin came into the season. He looked like he was going to potentially break out in the preseason. Seemed like he came in healthy and confident, and looked the part of where he left off. But yeah...he seems like he's mostly lost what makes him effective. He's a player who clearly needs to just keep things simple and play with confidence. Probably need to have him as the clear "3rd wheel" on a line and not expect him to "create" too much.
Mikheyev seems like a similar player on the surface, but actually kind of the opposite of Podkolzin? At his best, it's things like that goal...where he's creating his own offense. He brings a lot of a much needed skillset to this team, but i don't know that he's the best fit with a guy like Pettersson. I'm not sure how much sense it makes to combine a guy who is a bit of a solo-warrior who thrives on pushing the pace, with a skill guy who thrives in slowing down and controlling the pace like Pettersson.
This is the real, fundamental problem with Boeser. If he's not shooting/scoring, he's really not doing anything. He just doesn't really touch any other areas of the game. Is this really a $6.65M player?
This is an interesting point about Hughes. He is not like Ehrhoff, who was really "efficient" in moving the puck. Hughes likes the lug the puck around a bit and look for the opportunity. It's a special skillset, but it can also be problematic at times, for everyone else. It's very "freelance". Hard to read and anticipate off of, for the forwards...when even Hughes himself doesn't seem to really know what he's going to do with the puck on any given breakout.
He sort of "quarterbacks" the breakout like Russell Wilson. Lots of improvisation and scrambling around to change angles and look for openings. But it can be really hard for the forwards "downfield" to play with real structure, when there isn't necessarily an established structure to the way he's going to move the puck either.
It's certainly a double-edged sword. He's great at it, but it brings some challenges.
Joshua has just been a huge disappointment for me. I still just don't really know what it is that he does, or brings to the table.
credulous
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
- 4,412
- 5,999
why'd you leave out his 2nd most common partner?
oel burroughs -> 21.8% xGF
oel has 125 ev minutes with myers, 28 with burroughs, 25 with bear, 15 with both hughes and poolman
I'll defend the guy here. He's absolutely excellent at sawing off ice time away from the other team. He's only been on the ice for 5 goals against, is tied for the team lead in hits, has drawn 5 penalties, and limits his giveaway. Basically, for a league minimun 4th liner he chews through time and makes it so the other team doesn't tilt the ice. It's about exactly what you want from him.
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,560
- 16,517
OEL last night..1 goal, 2 shots, 3 hits, 3 blocked shots, +2, a team 3rd highest 21:40 minutes and 4 minutes on the PK.
Myers has really been struggling since he's returned from his injury.
Myers has really been struggling since he's returned from his injury.
Ah I missed that because Natural Stat Trick switches sides sometimes.
There goes that theory
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 27,696
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He's certainly way down the list of "problems" for this team. Honestly, he's not even a "problem".
He's just been disappointing. He piles up alright stats and doesn't seem like he directly hurts you, but he also doesn't bring a lot of energy or spark or anything. He's just..."fine". He's "there". I'd like to see more impact from those sort of minutes, but i'm not really going to complain too much about a cheap player just doing an alright job there.
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
- 22,537
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I think some fans just have a bias towards smaller forwards who move around like water bugs and look like they’re going out 110% even if only bring a similar or lesser impact than a guy like Joshua.
biturbo19
Registered User
- Jul 13, 2010
- 27,696
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I mean, we have that exact player, in Lockwood. And i'm a lot happier with Joshua in that role. But i still think we can do a lot better than Joshua. There are better 4th liners out there than him, who manage to generate something in those limited minutes. Rather than just being content to "saw off" the results on the corsi tables.
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