Give Gauthier a shot?

[IBeL34f]

Gauthier is a larger version of McClemment and I doubt most teams would waste a 1st on McClemment. He'll be a tweener 3rd, 4th liner but since he's not really physical he'll probably never really be a great possession player.

He's the type of player that I would consider revenue neutral when he's at his peak, he won't help TO win because he can't score enough to put TO in a winning situation but he'll probably be used as a PKer and a lineup filler. Our best hope for him is 12 to 15 goals as a 3rd liner with the ability to disrupt the offense of any line he faces.

There's an awful lot more to being a possession player, or being physical, than hitting. Gauthier can be an absolute dominant possession player with his frame protecting the puck. His cycle game is quite strong. I think you'll be surprised. Having said that, 12-15 goals isn't too shabby, especially if he racks up ~25 assists. I wouldn't be disappointed in that at all, thought I do think he's capable of more, and could have seasons closer to 50 points, perhaps higher if he gets top-6 opportunities some seasons. A huge, 40 point defensive master is hardly a 3rd/4th-line tweener.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Gauthier is a larger version of McClemment and I doubt most teams would waste a 1st on McClemment. He'll be a tweener 3rd, 4th liner but since he's not really physical he'll probably never really be a great possession player.

He's the type of player that I would consider revenue neutral when he's at his peak, he won't help TO win because he can't score enough to put TO in a winning situation but he'll probably be used as a PKer and a lineup filler. Our best hope for him is 12 to 15 goals as a 3rd liner with the ability to disrupt the offense of any line he faces.

Quite a few of the very best possession players in the world are really not physical either. Datsyuk isn't, Williams isn't, Kopitar isn't, Bergeron is when he needs to be.

Gauthier looks to be a great possession player, a solid shutdown guy at worst, good PK player and faceoff man. His point totals might not be the highest, a lot due to him most likely not being given that opportunity, but like Winnik I expect him to be useful to pretty much any line he is put on. He'll also be the guy that we can utilize to effect in shutdown situations, which is very useful as well. Faceoff prowess ties into that as well. And on top of that, he's got everything needed to be a really effective PK specialist as well.

That's a lot of talent in its own way. Not everybody on a team can be an offensive juggernaut. There'll only be a limited amount of PP spots and good, offensive ES time available. If Gauthier continues developing as he is, he'll be able to fill a ton of roles for us. That's certainly a player that can help you win, and a far cry from the vastly overrated McClement.

There's an awful lot more to being a possession player, or being physical, than hitting. Gauthier can be an absolute dominant possession player with his frame protecting the puck. His cycle game is quite strong. I think you'll be surprised. Having said that, 12-15 goals isn't too shabby, especially if he racks up ~25 assists. I wouldn't be disappointed in that at all, thought I do think he's capable of more, and could have seasons closer to 50 points, perhaps higher if he gets top-6 opportunities some seasons. A huge, 40 point defensive master is hardly a 3rd/4th-line tweener.

I think he'll have the talent to put up 40 points, but I don't think he'll have the opportunity. I would guess that he's likely to be the guy seeing about 25% ZS with no PP time, being productive in those circumstances would be a bit much to expect. However, having someone that can play that kind of minutes with defensive effectiveness and ability to help move the puck up the ice is valuable not only in itself, but also because of what it does for the other lines. Having Gauthier do that will allow us to put Nylander and Marner in a better position to succeed where they can utilize their own talents best.

I envision Gauthier being that Boyd Gordon but better kind of player who takes a heavy burden that allows the other teammates to play easier minutes, while being bashed by fans who can see no further than the point totals.

 

[Mess]

Gauthier is a larger version of McClemment and I doubt most teams would waste a 1st on McClemment. He'll be a tweener 3rd, 4th liner but since he's not really physical he'll probably never really be a great possession player.

He's the type of player that I would consider revenue neutral when he's at his peak, he won't help TO win because he can't score enough to put TO in a winning situation but he'll probably be used as a PKer and a lineup filler. Our best hope for him is 12 to 15 goals as a 3rd liner with the ability to disrupt the offense of any line he faces.

The comparable used at draft time for Gauthier was Martin Hanzal of Arizona..

Hanzal was selected 1st round #17 overall in 2005.

If Gauthier has a similar NHL impact to Hanzal I think the Leafs would be very happy with their pick even though it will never be a high impact offensive one.

 

[buttman*]

With Frederick Gauthier saying he wants to make the big club, are you willing to take a chance on him? Or are there just to many roster spots taken for this year? Would you trade him?

If Gauthier or another prospect plays well enough it will be easy to waive a veteran.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

My question is not if Gauthier will make the Leafs, will he be even starting with the Marlies next year? If Nylander makes the Leafs it will greatly improve Gauthier's chances. But if he doesn't there is going to be a log jam at Center with the Marlies next season.

 

[William Hylander]

Gauthier will not sniff the NHL for 3 years.

 

[Nithoniniel]

The comparable used at draft time for Gauthier was Martin Hanzal of Arizona..

Hanzal was selected 1st round #17 overall in 2005.

If Gauthier has a similar NHL impact to Hanzal I think the Leafs would be very happy with their pick even though it will never be a high impact offensive one.

I've grown increasingly sceptical towards that comparison. Hanzal is actually rather underrated offensively, and really overrated defensively. Not really the player type I see Gauthier developing into. He'll be either completely different, or a version with superior defense.

Gauthier will not sniff the NHL for 3 years.

Most likely not for 2-3 years, but you really should avoid the absolutes.

 

[nuck]

My question is not if Gauthier will make the Leafs, will he be even starting with the Marlies next year? If Nylander makes the Leafs it will greatly improve Gauthier's chances. But if he doesn't there is going to be a log jam at Center with the Marlies next season.

This ^ although I think he will be given more Marlie opportunity than a lower drafted player might expect to get. I strongly suspect Nylander would have to walk on water to make the Leafs out of camp (and I am not sure he is destined for center in the NHL at all without a strong C season in the AHL). Once they free up some spots at the deadline there will be a shift, but I could see second year pros like Brown or Leipsic being so far ahead of Freddy they make the jump first even though it throws the position distribution out of whack. Best case for FG to me is next season and because he will be in tough to get big minutes in the AHL this year, maybe even the year after because they do need to play a lot him to develop him.

 

[Anthrax442]

The comparable used at draft time for Gauthier was Martin Hanzal of Arizona..

Hanzal was selected 1st round #17 overall in 2005.

If Gauthier has a similar NHL impact to Hanzal I think the Leafs would be very happy with their pick even though it will never be a high impact offensive one.

 

[NotSince67*]

I think he'll have the talent to put up 40 points, but I don't think he'll have the opportunity. I would guess that he's likely to be the guy seeing about 25% ZS with no PP time, being productive in those circumstances would be a bit much to expect. However, having someone that can play that kind of minutes with defensive effectiveness and ability to help move the puck up the ice is valuable not only in itself, but also because of what it does for the other lines. Having Gauthier do that will allow us to put Nylander and Marner in a better position to succeed where they can utilize their own talents best.

When he reaches that point in his career... well it's unlikely to be soon. If that does happen it may take as long as when he's entering his UFA years, at a bare minumum his 3rd year in the NHL.

 

[hobarth]

Quite a few of the very best possession players in the world are really not physical either. Datsyuk isn't, Williams isn't, Kopitar isn't, Bergeron is when he needs to be.

Gauthier looks to be a great possession player, a solid shutdown guy at worst, good PK player and faceoff man. His point totals might not be the highest, a lot due to him most likely not being given that opportunity, but like Winnik I expect him to be useful to pretty much any line he is put on. He'll also be the guy that we can utilize to effect in shutdown situations, which is very useful as well. Faceoff prowess ties into that as well. And on top of that, he's got everything needed to be a really effective PK specialist as well.

That's a lot of talent in its own way. Not everybody on a team can be an offensive juggernaut. There'll only be a limited amount of PP spots and good, offensive ES time available. If Gauthier continues developing as he is, he'll be able to fill a ton of roles for us. That's certainly a player that can help you win, and a far cry from the vastly overrated McClement.



I think he'll have the talent to put up 40 points, but I don't think he'll have the opportunity. I would guess that he's likely to be the guy seeing about 25% ZS with no PP time, being productive in those circumstances would be a bit much to expect. However, having someone that can play that kind of minutes with defensive effectiveness and ability to help move the puck up the ice is valuable not only in itself, but also because of what it does for the other lines. Having Gauthier do that will allow us to put Nylander and Marner in a better position to succeed where they can utilize their own talents best.

I envision Gauthier being that Boyd Gordon but better kind of player who takes a heavy burden that allows the other teammates to play easier minutes, while being bashed by fans who can see no further than the point totals.

I hope that all you envision is what we'll get from the Goat.

Size is Gauthier's greatest asset and there are many ways to use it effectively without being a human hitting machine, the problem is he doesn't use his size properly. He doesn't have Datsyuk's, Kopitar's, Bergeron's talent obviously so comparing him to those players is a waste of time.

I don't know where you get that Gauthier is a possession player because that ability is usually associated with talent and speed both of which he doesn't have. His lack of speed is a constant topic of conversation in all articles reviewing his potential value, the kindest references to his speed issue is usually he's a decent skater for a big man, what does that mean, basically nothing.

Gauthier ceiling is right now a possible upgrade to McClemment which is not horrible but he'll have to improve a bit to meet those expectations. All of the possible future uses you envision for Gauthier are possible because that's what McClemment also did for TO and we know how easily TO let McClemment go.

 

[Moonman]

Gauthier needs 2-3 years in the AHL. No need to rush him.

 

[Nithoniniel]

When he reaches that point in his career... well it's unlikely to be soon. If that does happen it may take as long as when he's entering his UFA years, at a bare minumum his 3rd year in the NHL.

Perhaps. Personally I think the parts of his game that will allow him to be a shutdown forward and PK specialist is rather refined. It's always been about exploring a better upside with him, and that upside has not much to do with him being able to play that role. Just how valuable he is in it.

I hope that all you envision is what we'll get from the Goat.

Size is Gauthier's greatest asset and there are many ways to use it effectively without being a human hitting machine, the problem is he doesn't use his size properly. He doesn't have Datsyuk's, Kopitar's, Bergeron's talent obviously so comparing him to those players is a waste of time.

I don't know where you get that Gauthier is a possession player because that ability is usually associated with talent and speed both of which he doesn't have. His lack of speed is a constant topic of conversation in all articles reviewing his potential value, the kindest references to his speed issue is usually he's a decent skater for a big man, what does that mean, basically nothing.

Gauthier ceiling is right now a possible upgrade to McClemment which is not horrible but he'll have to improve a bit to meet those expectations. All of the possible future uses you envision for Gauthier are possible because that's what McClemment also did for TO and we know how easily TO let McClemment go.

No size isn't Gauthiers greatest asset. It's his defensive IQ. He's already better than most NHL players I've seen at reading plays, positioning, covering passing lanes etc. That's his defining trait, the thing that'll build his career. That's his high-end talent.

He does use his size for puck protection, which is essential for the puck possession game of a player without high-end speed.

I did not compare him to those players so not sure why you include that remark. This place and its fixation with comparing, just because I mention them in the same discussion don't mean I think they're comparable players. Especially when they were brought up in a different context.

I get that Gauthier is a possession player from him being so for years now, being superb at protecting the puck, adept at the cycling game, good at winning board battles, constantly taking smart decisions that allow him to retain possession.

And NO, what I've mentioned is a far cry from what McClement did. I said that Gauthier can be an effective shutdown center at the NHL level 5-on-5, which means he'll do it being effective defensively and be able to win us possession. McClement is an absolutely dreadful player 5-on-5, pretty much any half-developed AHL player in our system can come up and put up better performances than him there. He's solely a guy that can win faceoffs and a PK specialist.

 

[Pookie]

Between Bozak, Kadri and Holland, I would bet that only 1 is on the roster at the end of this season.

There should be plenty of opportunity for the developed players over the next few years.

 

[The Caveman]

Based on what he has done in Junior hockey, he is destined to becoming a high-end face-off and defensive specialist. We'll see if he can continue that at the pro level with the Marlies. That in itself is very useful as every team needs that.

Having watched him a number of times, I don't really see the offensive skill to be a player who can drive offence. However, I can see him playing on the PP as he can win the O-zone faceoff, which is crucial to gaining possession, and then being the big body in front of the net. With so many huge goalies in the league these days, that in itself is a useful commodity. We know Babcock loves his big man screen.

 

[Fogelhund]

Let him play in the AHL, less pressure, can play and make mistakes outside of the spotlight, and really you should be able to make mistakes and learn, as well as potentially raising his pro offensive game a little.

 

[Hero]

QMJHL scoring...

22 and 60 in 62 (.98 PPG)
18 and 52 in 54 (.96 PPG)
16 and 32 in 37 (.86 PPG)

Offensively he hasn't improved in the Q at all, I'm curious to see what he can do in the AHL.

But I think he should be given the AHL season to adjust his game.

 

[dballislife2]

i love this prospect...too much people here love the attractive offensive guys, its nice to look at ya...but we've sucked, sucked for awhile now, not becus we cant score but we cant defend

u need variety in your forwards...hockey isn't about just stick handling through people...theres a lot of board play, a lot of grinding and working and fighting for that puck...u gotta play defense too...and this kid will bring great defense and intangibles to the bottom 6