Value of: Giordano to a win-now (non-rebuild) team

[DJJones]

Oel vs gio... Man cmon. Imo he is the best all around dman not name drew. I cannot think a single thing gio is better at.

I agree that OEL has way more value than Gio but I think Gio is the best defenseman in the league at moving around a defender coming to hard at him and stepping into a wrist shot/slap shot.

He just always knows the perfect amount of time to wait before he shoots.

 

[SemONER*]

The oilers are in win now mode regardless of what's happened in the past

Lol.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Oel vs gio... Man cmon. Imo he is the best all around dman not name drew. I cannot think a single thing gio is better at.

They are very comparable defensively. OEL is a bit more mobile, Giordano makes better reads with and without the puck.

Offensively the gap exists too. It just doesn't appear that way based on raw counting stats as OEL is the only defenseman on his team's power play and plays the whole thing racking up points, whereas Giordano is one of four:

Past 3 Seasons

Player | Giordano | OEL
5v4 Points per 60 | 4.52 | 3.65
5v4 Rel CF60 | +19.37 | + 25.26
5v5 Points per 60 | 1.17 | 0.88
5v5 QoC.xGF | 50.39 | 50.37
5v5 Rel CF% SA | +7.33 | +3.24
4v5 Rel CA60 | +8.91 | +4.62

That said, since OEL is younger, I would still trade Gio for him.

 

[Gord]

Solid #1 D man on a weber-like contract, 32 years old, signed until hes 39 at 6.75M. Price for D men is ridiculous.

Hes a little old for the rebuilding flames, despite being a great character guy, great leader, amazing D-Man coming off 3 straight 45 -55 point seasons.

I love Gio and wouldnt want to trade him, but my god, it would be a good time to do so.

Weber for Subban like trade, get 5 years younger for an equivalent talent, less matured D man with a high ceiling. Who would Gio return, and would u do it ?

Bonus question: How far off would Gio for Subban straight up have been? 1st rounder ? Blue chip prospect? Could the flames have added nd got him instead of Nashville ? Makes me wonder...

I don't think he would return the value many flames fans would expect.
he's not going to age well, and that would be quite the anchor of a contract to carry.
you'll get 2 more years of good play from him before he begins to break down?

 

[DJJones]

I don't think he would return the value many flames fans would expect.
he's not going to age well, and that would be quite the anchor of a contract to carry.
you'll get 2 more years of good play from him before he begins to break down?

Why would you think he isn't going to age well?

He's never been the fastest guy. His game is positional and a hammer of a shot.

If anyone ages well past 36 he should be a prime candidate. Could hit a wall like anyone but his game certainly doesn't scream it. The fact that he can slide down to the 2nd pairing with Brodie and Hamilton will make it that much easier for him.

 

[Rockmorton]

Calgary Trades:
Mark Giordano

Calgary Receives:
Mark Giordano

Calgary needs to add.

 

[CanadienShark]

"Hey, one team fleeced another in a deal for their younger, better d-man. Any other similar deals out there for my older, worse d-man?"

 

[Chaos]

I wouldn't do Gio for Lindholm, but the other two would be pretty much the only kind of deals that would make trading Giordano an option for me. Maybe Klingberg though I'm skeptical of his ability to improve his D-zone play.

You dont have to worry about that, the Stars wouldnt ever consider moving Klingberg for Giordano

 

[dracom]

I wouldn't do Gio for Lindholm, but the other two would be pretty much the only kind of deals that would make trading Giordano an option for me. Maybe Klingberg though I'm skeptical of his ability to improve his D-zone play.

Don't worry, Ducks wouldn't even consider Lindholm for Gio. Pretty ridiculous you wouldn't make that trade tbh. Lindholm is one of the best young defensemen in the league at 22 years old, while Gio is 32 on an anchor of contract.

 

[Kelevra]

Lol.

Why is that funny? Should the oilers just stop trying to win because they have been a joke for 10 years?

 

[Curufinwe]

Wouldn't this expose the flames to a possible recapture penalty if he retired?

No.

Recapture penalties only apply to contracts signed before the 2013 CBA.

 

[Double Dion]

I always thought he was overrate but this is just over the top

Giordano is better defensively by far then both players and comparable offensively. How could anyone think he's not better?

Weber is downright bad defensively at this point. He's not even NHL average. Subban CAN play defensively, but he makes a lot of mistakes still.

 

[DJJones]

Giordano is better defensively by far then both players and comparable offensively. How could anyone think he's not better?

Weber is downright bad defensively at this point. He's not even NHL average. Subban CAN play defensively, but he makes a lot of mistakes still.

Until Gio can put together a full season he's going to be overlooked.

Three seasons in a row where he's lost 20 games. I include last year since he shouldn't even have shown up the first 20 games.

 

[Double Dion]

I always thought he was overrate but this is just over the top

Most people gauge defensemen primarily by reputation as opposed to actual play. Even teams fall into this trap. Weber is a poor defender and has been for 2 seasons now. He was actually bottom 10 in the entire league this year defensively. Giordano is top 5 defensively over the past 3 seasons. But his name isn't Weber or Subban so people who don't evaluate actual play have no idea how good he is. Granted, he plays with Brodie which certainly helps his defensive numbers, but the same can be said of Josi for Weber.

The best defenseman in the league right now in my opinion is Hedman and no one talks about him as that at all. Seabrook and Weber are the most overrated guys in the league presently.

 

[Double Dion]

Until Gio can put together a full season he's going to be overlooked.

Three seasons in a row where he's lost 20 games. I include last year since he shouldn't even have shown up the first 20 games.

I don't care that other people overlook him honestly. It doesn't change what he is. The Flames are a piss poor team when him and Brodie aren't on the ice and a dominant team when they are. Weber is one of the worst defensive guys in the game and people still talk about him like it's 5 years ago. Giordano hasn't declined at all. It would be nice if he could stay healthy for a full season, but that's tough to do when you're 6'0" and 190 pounds and play like you're 6'3" 220.

 

[AlphaBravo]

The Kings offer:

Alec Martinez, who is a great puck moving top 4 defender and with offensive upside, Kempe (our top prospect), and 2017 first round pick for Gio.

 

[Hector Salamanca]

They are very comparable defensively. OEL is a bit more mobile, Giordano makes better reads with and without the puck.

Offensively the gap exists too. It just doesn't appear that way based on raw counting stats as OEL is the only defenseman on his team's power play and plays the whole thing racking up points, whereas Giordano is one of four:

Past 3 Seasons

Player | Giordano | OEL
5v4 Points per 60 | 4.52 | 3.65
5v4 Rel CF60 | +19.37 | + 25.26
5v5 Points per 60 | 1.17 | 0.88
5v5 QoC.xGF | 50.39 | 50.37
5v5 Rel CF% SA | +7.33 | +3.24
4v5 Rel CA60 | +8.91 | +4.62

That said, since OEL is younger, I would still trade Gio for him.

Ok but, gio is always injured. Oel play with the worst supporting cast around him during those years. Put oel in a favorable situation, he will have 65 pts + not being injured. Oel doesnt even have a good d partner, gio have brodie, thats pretty unfair. Oel is the most underrated player in the league.

 

[Double Dion]

Ok but, gio is always injured. Oel play with the worst supporting cast around him during those years. Put oel in a favorable situation, he will have 65 pts + not being injured. Oel doesnt even have a good d partner, gio have brodie, thats pretty unfair. Oel is the most underrated player in the league.

OEL is a vert good defenseman. I'd take him ahead of Giordano because of exactly what you said, he plays with Brodie. What I'm confused about is how anyone with even a half a brain could take Weber ahead of Giordano. That's just unjustifiable. I have OEL in my top 5 defensemen in the NHL. I have Giordano around #10. I'd disagree with you on OEL being the most underrated player in the league though. Most smart fans know he's fantastic. Brodie, Hedman, Hampus Lindholm and several others are far more underrated.

 

[RedHot]

The Kings offer:

Alec Martinez, who is a great puck moving top 4 defender and with offensive upside, Kempe (our top prospect), and 2017 first round pick for Gio.

And the Flames probably ask for Toffoli.

 

[Leafs87]

Giordano is better defensively by far then both players and comparable offensively. How could anyone think he's not better?

Weber is downright bad defensively at this point. He's not even NHL average. Subban CAN play defensively, but he makes a lot of mistakes still.

What? I mean his last series yes was bad but I hope you aren't basing your opinion of him just on that

 

[AlphaBravo]

And the Flames probably ask for Toffoli.

Although it would be fair for the Flames to ask for Toffoli as part of the deal, that would probably end the trade discussions because with Lucic gone we are short of top 6 wingers (especially of Toffoli's caliber).

For Gio, I think Pearson and Martinez and a 1st would be fair for both sides, but I don't think I could pull the trigger on that deal because of our lack of wingers. I suspect the Flames would stand firm on getting Toffoli instead of Pearson, which I understand.

 

[Double Dion]

What? I mean his last series yes was bad but I hope you aren't basing your opinion of him just on that

I'm not even talking playoffs where he was basically a pylon out there. During the last two regular seasons Weber has been bad defensively even paired with an elite guy like Josi. Away from Josi he's been one of the worst defensemen in the entire league. Bottom 3 in terms of guys who play more than 15 minutes per game. Even WITH Josi last year he was bottom 10 in terms of guys who play more than 15 minutes per game.

Weber hasn't been an elite defenseman in 4 years and hasn't even been good for 2 years. I wouldn't even have him in my top 30 defensemen at this point. He's basically in the same category as Dougie Hamilton or Sami Vatanen for me, just better offensively and worse defensively.

 

[Hector Salamanca]

OEL is a vert good defenseman. I'd take him ahead of Giordano because of exactly what you said, he plays with Brodie. What I'm confused about is how anyone with even a half a brain could take Weber ahead of Giordano. That's just unjustifiable. I have OEL in my top 5 defensemen in the NHL. I have Giordano around #10. I'd disagree with you on OEL being the most underrated player in the league though. Most smart fans know he's fantastic. Brodie, Hedman, Hampus Lindholm and several others are far more underrated.

Agree on brodie hes a beautie. Lindholm is overrated in my opinion and hedman is in his chair. Never been a fan of weber kind of d, they age very bad. Lindholm is good, but nothing special. He do have potentiel to be special, but hes not there yet.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Giordano was terrible the first half of the season.

Weber is now and has always been better, he's younger, and less injury prone.

He was terrible for the first 15ish games; that's not half a season. And you can keep pretending that Weber is still better all you want, but he's fallen off considerably since his peak. He's just one of those guys who is now overrated based on reputation and physical assets.

 

[Double Dion]

He was terrible for the first 15ish games; that's not half a season. And you can keep pretending that Weber is still better all you want, but he's fallen off considerably since his peak. He's just one of those guys who is now overrated based on reputation and physical assets.

Exactly. He also had his bicep come off his bone entirely. He couldn't really even shoot the puck for the first 20 games. Agreed heartily on Weber too. Seabrook is another guy who is getting all sorts of credit for his play three years ago. Same thing happened in Calgary when Iginla hit 31. His all around play plummeted even though his counting stats didn't. To this point, Giordano hasn't declined at all.