International: German Junior National Teams

[pgfan66]

That is interesting ... I'd have my d on the wall but unless it is a kill i normally wouldn't put the d right behind... They may have had a plan though to win it and have everyone lock up. High lob out of the zone.. I find faceoffs fascinating...

Definitely looks like the plan is for Pelech to get the puck off a clean win while Mayfield is locking up the winger. But from there it’ll be tough for Pelech to make a play.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Definitely looks like the plan is for Pelech to get the puck off a clean win while Mayfield is locking up the winger. But from there it’ll be tough for Pelech to make a play.

I can say that Pelech's the team expert at lobbing pucks into the neutral zone without them ending up being icing, so that might have been the thought there...

 

[GermanSpitfire]

U18 Camp Rosters we’re released.

 

[Maverick41]

U18 Camp Rosters we’re released.

There are some names I like, aside from the obvious ones, but I am also disappointed that no 07 is on the list. Although I get it, at that age 2 years makes a huge difference. However, I am surprised by some of the 06s on the list, since there are a number of other 06s I would consider better options.

But I'll defer to the coaching staff on this, and I don't expect more than one, if any, 06 to make the final roster, anyway.

Really happy to see Greil still in the mix. Given that Peiting is playing in the 3rd division of the DNL it has been very difficult to gauge his level of play, but the first time I saw him play for the U18 this season, he looked pretty good.
Also happy to see Noah Garthe on the list. I have never seen him, but his numbers in Sweden are not that bad, and I would love to get a look at him, if not at the WJC U18 this year, then maybe in some U20 tournament in the future. Nice to see that he is on the radar for the DEB.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

There are some names I like, aside from the obvious ones, but I am also disappointed that no 07 is on the list. Although I get it, at that age 2 years makes a huge difference. However, I am surprised by some of the 06s on the list, since there are a number of other 06s I would consider better options.

But I'll defer to the coaching staff on this, and I don't expect more than one, if any, 06 to make the final roster, anyway.

Really happy to see Greil still in the mix. Given that Peiting is playing in the 3rd division of the DNL it has been very difficult to gauge his level of play, but the first time I saw him play for the U18 this season, he looked pretty good.
Also happy to see Noah Garthe on the list. I have never seen him, but his numbers in Sweden are not that bad, and I would love to get a look at him, if not at the WJC U18 this year, then maybe in some U20 tournament in the future. Nice to see that he is on the radar for the DEB.

Hahn was a big surprise for me. Odd they include him but not Schams or Merkl.
Am I missing something there?

 

[Maverick41]

Hahn was a big surprise for me. Odd they include him but not Schams or Merkl.
Am I missing something there?

No idea. I don't think either one is injured. Schams played in the second game of the DNL finals a few days ago.
I will say, that Hahn has had a strong season in the DNL, so I am not against him being there, but yes, I would have chosen Merkl or Schams myself, over both Hahn and Hense.

Among forwards I was surprised by Focks (who was not on my radar for this tournament).
As for the 06 forwards specifically:
Seeger was a candidate for me, so not that surprised.
Pul and Maul are a bit more surprising, and I would have chosen others over them.

My first choice would have been Tim Schütz, but I don't know anything about his situation and if he would even be available.
But I would also have chosen any of Herzog, Schwarz, Seidl or Brunner ahead of Pul and Maul.
Felix Kerbel was also someone I had thought of, because I love his tenacity, but Pul is not too shabby in that department either.

But I hope the coaches know better who will be the best fit as a team and as far as playing styles are concerned.

It's rare how many late birthdays are on this preliminary roster. 8 late birthdays among the 05s and 2 late birthdays among the 06s.
I don't think there have been many years like this.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Wanted to stop by to share some thoughts, but you guys seem to everything covered, as usual.

I don't see RB Juniors making it past Cortina into the AlpsHL finlas, but if they did, then that could put a wrench into some of Dück's (preparatory) plans. Also, if we learned anything last spring, Dück will be nominating some guys we'd likely not expect on the team. Which didn't ultimately make any difference last year.

There are a number of guys you'd like to have perhaps seen in camp, but it is generally a nice thing to see the DEB be able to invite 35+ kids and we're here saying, "Hey, where's player X, Y, and Z? Shouldn't they get a look?"

Doesn't feel like Germany has generally had much of a selection along the way.

This said, this U18 team doesn't even have a Lutz or even a Bettahar. And even they only had a limited effect last spring. If guys like primarily Bicker, Brandl, Rückdaschl, Sumpf, and Schreiner aren't able to make offensive music, then the team is once again in big trouble. Also, it's still incredibly difficult to get a read on just where Vinzenz is - or what he is. Still holding out hope that he's got game.

Also, we've been looking at this blueline for several years thinking it should be a vital strength. But outside of maybe Tropmann, are any of namely Mayer, Niehus, Bosecker, and Panocha being viewed as NHL prospects? Can they withhold the onslaught of the top 6 nations in the tournament?

And what happened to Vladelchtchikov this season? His name had been mentioned with the other blueliners every step of the way until this very meager output for a strong Kölner DNL team.

At the moment, and realistically, this looks like a relegation round opponent with Norway. Fortunately, Germany should have stronger depth than the Norwegians, who tends to only have roughly 40-50 kids nationwide to pick from every spring, with only a handful being solid options. Then again, that handful is often busy playing junior hockey in Sweden. So there's that.

But I'm getting ahead of myself...

Speaking of which, very much looking forward to when the U18 squad consists of the Grivas, Lewandowski, Späth, Witthöft, Herzog, and Schütz up front. That could be exciting. But it would mean the DEB is making use of more underagers.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Really happy to see Greil still in the mix. Given that Peiting is playing in the 3rd division of the DNL it has been very difficult to gauge his level of play, but the first time I saw him play for the U18 this season, he looked pretty good.

Can you describe what you've seen from him?

Is this a player who may ultimately be better than, say, Marvin Feigl?

Also happy to see Noah Garthe on the list. I have never seen him, but his numbers in Sweden are not that bad, and I would love to get a look at him, if not at the WJC U18 this year, then maybe in some U20 tournament in the future. Nice to see that he is on the radar for the DEB.

He's been a true "Wandervogel" in recent years, and that at such a young age.

Half Canadian, half German, he was part of the Molot (associated with the Sailors) program here in Hamburg 5 or 6 years ago, as was Dustin Witthöft by the way, who I believe is half Danish. Should be interesting to see if he makes the cut, especially when seeing what names have been left off the list of invites.

The Molot program first started up in 2007-08 or something like that, but has already produced a handful of players around the hockey world. The Bartuli brothers, Daniel and Michael, are playing Oberliga and DEL2 hockey, respectively. There's a player named Jegors Fleisers who ended the season with Herne and looks to be part of the Iserlohn system sometime soon. The men's team is still just in the regional league here in Northern Germany, but is trying to become a professional outfit.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

As for the 06 forwards specifically:
Seeger was a candidate for me, so not that surprised.
Pul and Maul are a bit more surprising, and I would have chosen others over them.

Honestly, I think all three are just "getting a look". And I think there may be certain politics involved, as is often the case.

This said, the Krefeld organization has been gaining clout in recent years when it comes to their junior work. Maybe they have for a while, but the entire U17 -> DNL -> U23 Oberliga team program seems to be viewed very favorably by the DEB. And the new group that has taken over is dedicated to just that.

But I would also have chosen any of Herzog, Schwarz, Seidl or Brunner ahead of Pul and Maul.

Which Schwarz and Seidl are you referring to?

Felix Kerbel was also someone I had thought of, because I love his tenacity, but Pul is not too shabby in that department either.

Yep, gotta wonder why Pul and Maul are here, but Kerbel isn't. Seem to have similar upside and Kerbel is even the best producer of the three.

 

[Maverick41]

Can you describe what you've seen from him?

Is this a player who may ultimately be better than, say, Marvin Feigl?

Just to clarify, the first time I saw him play was also the only time I saw him play, but what I saw in that game was a kid playing with confidence, a decent skater and stickhandler with good offensive instincts. His play on the defensive side, was a little iffy at times. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I think it would be good for him to play more at a level where he gets challanged some more on the defensive side. At the time of the game I saw he had only played 2 games in the Oberliga that season. I would guess that he will play most of his games in the Oberliga next season, if he stays in Peiting.

The game I saw was the 5-3 win over Slovakia in November 2022. I believe it was his 3rd appearance (3rd game in the tournament) for the U18 team, but he did not play like that. When he had the chance he attacked with the puck trying to get past defenders and he was very creative about it, not always trying the same moves over and over.
The goal he scored was also a beauty. The Slovaks were a bit disorganized with everybody going for the puck, which had been played by Robin Rieke along the boards, and it looked like maybe he had pushed it a litte too far ahead, but just past the red line Rieke managed to find the puck in between two Slovak defenders and pushed it towards the center, springing Greil on a breakaway who made no mistake getting the goalie to bite on a shoulder fake, but then pulling the puck around the prone goalie on his backhand and casually shooting it into the empty net with his forehand.

At times (very few times) he reminded me of Stützle, obviously not in term of skill and talent, but in terms of attitude and even style.

Sample size is obviously way too small, but that game made me curious, and I would love to see more from him.

This is based on the notes I took when I watched the game. At first I wanted to re-watch the game before replying, to get a fresh impression and refresh my memory, but then I found out I have to do a translation of a 18 page report for work this afternoon (luckily 5 pages are mostly graphs and pictures).

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Just to clarify, the first time I saw him play was also the only time I saw him play, but what I saw in that game was a kid playing with confidence, a decent skater and stickhandler with good offensive instincts. His play on the defensive side, was a little iffy at times. Maybe I am reading too much into it, but I think it would be good for him to play more at a level where he gets challanged some more on the defensive side. At the time of the game I saw he had only played 2 games in the Oberliga that season. I would guess that he will play most of his games in the Oberliga next season, if he stays in Peiting.

The game I saw was the 5-3 win over Slovakia in November 2022. I believe it was his 3rd appearance (3rd game in the tournament) for the U18 team, but he did not play like that. When he had the chance he attacked with the puck trying to get past defenders and he was very creative about it, not always trying the same moves over and over.
The goal he scored was also a beauty. The Slovaks were a bit disorganized with everybody going for the puck, which had been played by Robin Rieke along the boards, and it looked like maybe he had pushed it a litte too far ahead, but just past the red line Rieke managed to find the puck in between two Slovak defenders and pushed it towards the center, springing Greil on a breakaway who made no mistake getting the goalie to bite on a shoulder fake, but then pulling the puck around the prone goalie on his backhand and casually shooting it into the empty net with his forehand.

At times (very few times) he reminded me of Stützle, obviously not in term of skill and talent, but in terms of attitude and even style.

Sample size is obviously way too small, but that game made me curious, and I would love to see more from him.

This is based on the notes I took when I watched the game. At first I wanted to re-watch the game before replying, to get a fresh impression and refresh my memory, but then I found out I have to do a translation of a 18 page report for work this afternoon (luckily 5 pages are mostly graphs and pictures).

Many thanks!

Now get back to work...

 

[Maverick41]

Which Schwarz and Seidl are you referring to?

Tobias Schwarz (EV Landshut)

Simon Seidl (EV Landshut)

Schwarz has been consistently one of the best forwards at the U17 level and Seidl I really liked in the U17 games he played in February.

 

[Maverick41]

Many thanks!

Now get back to work...

I have to wait until I get the report from that big company (which shall remain unnamed) that our customer supplies components to.
Then I get to work to translate it from German to English and forward it to our customer, because apparently this huge global corporation is not capable of creating reports for their overseas suppliers in English.

On the other hand I have seen what it looks like when they try to send things out in English, so it is probably better this way.
So, Iooking at the time now, I will likely have another 15-20 minutes of free time, before I got to get to work.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

The 2 U18 games against the Swiss resulted in a 6-1 loss and a 4-2 loss.

Timo Ruckdäschel the lone goal scorer in the first game.

Kevin Bicker and Noah Samanski the goal scorers in the second game.

 

[pgfan66]

I'm super late to the party but haven't had time to reply properly. So here goes, a few thoughts on what was discussed above.

Re. the 06 D: I'm surprised they invited two at all because none of them are at the level Tropmann was at last year when he made the team and the DEB isn't really known for underage invites. I always liked Hense, so I'm happy for him, but I probably would've gone with Schams over him too – simply because he's played at a higher level all year and brings a very good defensive game. Don't really know anything about Hahn, so I can't comment there. Since Merkl was mentioned above too, I understand why he wasn't invited: He's quite immature physically. Hense is a big kid who can be physical, which is usually what it takes to make DEB teams.

Re. the D group as a whole: I actually still like it quite a bit, but that's mostly because of Tropmann and Panocha, plus Mayer when he's at the top of his game. I think Tropmann and Panocha are both better than any 04 D who played at the U18s last year. Didn't Tropmann already win best German D that year? That says a lot about the 04 group. Anyway, Bosecker and Niehus have been rather disappointing to me. And Vladelchtchikov, who was mentioned along with the rest of the group up until a year ago, just wasn't able to keep up. He didn't play a big role in Köln this year either.

At forward, I was also surprised to see Focks and I really don't like Greil. I don't even understand why he's played so many Oberliga games. Then again, I didn't like him in the beginning and didn't follow him much afterwards. There are some other names I know nothing about, so I wouldn't mind seeing them at the U18s.

Overall, I'm just really excited for the tournament. Both to see how the top players will do and to see the players I don't know much about or that I'm not very high on. Last year, I never would've nominated Saffran and Hördler for the U18s but they both ended up being really good players this year.

 

[pgfan66]

Forgot one thing: Here's the lineup I'd go with.

Bicker - Brandl - Münzenberger
Samanski - Sumpf - Ruckdäschel
Jakovlev - Schreiner - Vinzens
Seeger - Rieke - Salhi

Panocha - Niehus
Bosecker - Tropmann
Mayer - ?

Pertuch
Willerscheid
Ankirchner

--------------------------

I don't know the D options well enough to decide who should be the 6 or 7 or 8 – but I like the top 5 with Panocha, Tropmann and Mayer split across the pairings. They should still be the TOI leaders in the end.

For the forwards, even though it didn't work too well in the past, I still like the top line with Münzenberger because of his high-end IQ. Samanski-Sumpf-Ruckdäschel has secondary scoring upside. Schreiner-Vinzens can create some offense too while Jakovlev is a defensively responsible safety addition. The fourth line could be anything but I like Salhi's skating and skill and Seeger's upside. At center, it could honestly be anyone. Rieke, Hildebrand or someone like Greil? Sure, whatever.

 

[pgfan66]

The U18 lost the final pre-tournament game 5-4 vs. Latvia. I’d assume the top-two lines are what we’ll see at the U18s (Bicker-Brandl-Ruckdäschel and Samanski-Sumpf-Vinzenz). Not sure if Focks will stick on the third line (Focks-Schreiner-Münzenberger) – would be a huge surprise to me if he did. The fourth line of Jakovlev-Pul-Fischer might’ve still been experimental? They also had Homann-Kühnhauser on D, which I don’t think will be a thing at the U18s. The D top 3 pairings are probably final, though, with Panocha-Niehus, Bosecker-Tropmann, Mayer-Müller.

Very excited for the tournament to start!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

The U18 lost the final pre-tournament game 5-4 vs. Latvia. I’d assume the top-two lines are what we’ll see at the U18s (Bicker-Brandl-Ruckdäschel and Samanski-Sumpf-Vinzenz). Not sure if Focks will stick on the third line (Focks-Schreiner-Münzenberger) – would be a huge surprise to me if he did. The fourth line of Jakovlev-Pul-Fischer might’ve still been experimental? They also had Homann-Kühnhauser on D, which I don’t think will be a thing at the U18s. The D top 3 pairings are probably final, though, with Panocha-Niehus, Bosecker-Tropmann, Mayer-Müller.

Very excited for the tournament to start!

Looking forward to what should be the announcement of the roster sometime today.

 

[pgfan66]

Looking forward to what should be the announcement of the roster sometime today.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Tropmann is the captain, Niehus and Sumpf alternates.

Elias Pul is the lone ‘06 to make the roster.

I’m exited for this tournament.

 

[pgfan66]

Focks on the 2nd line with Sumpf and Vinzens to start the tournament. Dück really seems to like him for some reason.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Focks on the 2nd line with Sumpf and Vinzens to start the tournament. Dück really seems to like him for some reason.

#RisingStar

 

[Maverick41]

Focks on the 2nd line with Sumpf and Vinzens to start the tournament. Dück really seems to like him for some reason.

Not much you can glean from the game vs Canada so far. But I like his speed and hustle. Not sure I would put him on the 2nd line for it, but I like his motor so far.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Just watched the game and everyone was severely outclassed.

basically every opportunity we had was through transition, where we would take a shot the goalie wants us to take 10 times out of 10. zero sustained offensive zone pressure. Trouble handling passes and completing breakouts, terrible defensive reads, Puck watching.… just outclassed through and through - that 3on0 told the story of the game.

Goalers played well, not a big goalie guy but there has always been something about Willerscheid I have liked.

Sumpf had a few nice individual chances. definitely our most dangerous player. not that that’s saying much though…

I thought Brandl had a nice chance early in the game, but like I said above goalie could see it. His feet was an issue against Canada‘s best players for sure today.

Bicker had his feet moving early, but his efforts were in vein. Could tell his energy left his body after the first few goals, wasn’t as engaged after that.

Not a single defender stood out. not going to drag anyone through the mud though, it is Canada. We’ll get to see them better tomorrow against the Czechs, although that could get ugly Too… it’s a more winnable game than today. I’ll say this, I’m impressed Tropmann finished with an even +/-.

 

[Maverick41]

Just watched the game and everyone was severely outclassed.

basically every opportunity we had was through transition, where we would take a shot the goalie wants us to take 10 times out of 10. zero sustained offensive zone pressure. Trouble handling passes and completing breakouts, terrible defensive reads, Puck watching.… just outclassed through and through - that 3on0 told the story of the game.

Goalers played well, not a big goalie guy but there has always been something about Willerscheid I have liked.

Sumpf had a few nice individual chances. definitely our most dangerous player. not that that’s saying much though…

I thought Brandl had a nice chance early in the game, but like I said above goalie could see it. His feet was an issue against Canada‘s best players for sure today.

Bicker had his feet moving early, but his efforts were in vein. Could tell his energy left his body after the first few goals, wasn’t as engaged after that.

Not a single defender stood out. not going to drag anyone through the mud though, it is Canada. We’ll get to see them better tomorrow against the Czechs, although that could get ugly Too… it’s a more winnable game than today. I’ll say this, I’m impressed Tropmann finished with an even +/-.

Yeah, but that seemed more like "luck of the draw" as in, he was lucky to be off the ice at the right times. I am not sure many of our defensemen contributed that much to the puck staying out of our net. If it did it was mostly due to Canadian incompetence or Willerscheid.

And of course the score at even strength was "only" 4-0.

I liked Panocha the most among the defensemen because he was the only one who managed to get something of a transition game going a few times and even helped create two of our very few chances. I wouldn't say he was great, unless I am grading on a curve, but he was definitely my favourite today except for that cross check at the end. It wasn't horrible, but still unnecessary, and I don't like plays like that.

Hopefully they'll get a little more puck posession against the Czechs and can show a little more of their skill, assuming they have any at this level.

I will probably add a few thoughts on the Canada game tomorrow, but I've had almost 40°C fever since Tuesday due to an infection and today (well technically yesterday) was the first day I was feeling better, so now I am exhausted and gonna get some sleep.