Georgia national teams

[Coffee]

Armenia was suspended first for a year and after a second violation indefinitely.

I’m not really a fan of this. They need to rewrite some of these so called rules that prevent other nations from succeeding.

Heard back, and he said they can't confirm anything yet. Though seeing how this happened in 2016, I'm sure it's due to ineligible players again.

Thank you for trying to find out.

 

[Albatros]

I’m not really a fan of this. They need to rewrite some of these so called rules that prevent other nations from succeeding.

As I see it, having Iceland succeed with domestic players is much better for the game than Georgia fielding a team of ineligible Russians. Besides the IIHF already has separate tournaments for countries that are unable to fulfill the requirements.

 

[Coffee]

As I see it, having Iceland succeed with domestic players is much better for the game than Georgia fielding a team of ineligible Russians. Besides the IIHF already has separate tournaments for countries that are unable to fulfill the requirements.

Fair point.

 

[Xirik]

If the team was filled with former Russians that are dissidents who decided not to stay in Russia but still want to play hockey I'd be all for that but if its just a bunch of Russians looking for a way to get into the Worlds again and have a "free vacation" then I'd be against it.

 

[Namejs]

If the team was filled with former Russians that are dissidents who decided not to stay in Russia but still want to play hockey I'd be all for that but if its just a bunch of Russians looking for a way to get into the Worlds again and have a "free vacation" then I'd be against it.

Dissidents, riiight.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

If the team was filled with former Russians that are dissidents who decided not to stay in Russia but still want to play hockey I'd be all for that but if its just a bunch of Russians looking for a way to get into the Worlds again and have a "free vacation" then I'd be against it.

I'm not a huge fan of imports on NTs in general but giving special treatment to dissidents or asylum seekers would be beyond ridiculous. Of course they are more than welcome to play club hockey like anyone else.

 

[CraigBillington]

I'm not a huge fan of imports on NTs in general but giving special treatment to dissidents or asylum seekers would be beyond ridiculous. Of course they are more than welcome to play club hockey like anyone else.

Yea, I only like seeing imports on national teams if they've been playing for a club team for a certain amount of years and take up citizenship.

 

[CanadienShark]

Many Russians move to Georgia for obvious reasons. They continue to play hockey, much better than the locals. They are asked to play for Georgian NT, so, why not? It's fun: you travel to another country for the WC, get to spend time in at least a semi-competitive environment, etc. It's like a vacation that is paid for. I don't think they get anything at all in terms of money.

That's an interesting take on escaping conscription to a war they (rightly) want no part in.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That's an interesting take on escaping conscription to a war they (rightly) want no part in.

We are talking about people who moved to Georgia at least 2 years ago (since they played for their NT this year already), so what are you on about? Some piss-poor attempt to throw shade without even understanding the post that you are quoting, Mr. Moral High-ground.

 

[CanadienShark]

We are talking about people who moved to Georgia at least 2 years ago (since they played for their NT this year already), so what are you on about? Some piss-poor attempt to throw shade without even understanding the post that you are quoting, Mr. Moral High-ground.

Touch a nerve there, did I?

Don't make stupid comments like "vacation."

 

[ozo]

Touch a nerve there, did I?

Don't make stupid comments like "vacation."

I guess you are not aware of the IIHF rules, which demand players to play two full consecutive years into their new country to become eligible for NT. Nobody who moved to Georgia after Russia invaded Ukraine is already eligible to play for Georgia, so conscription doesn't come into equation when we talk about this group of Russians.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Touch a nerve there, did I?

Don't make stupid comments like "vacation."

Yes, people like you who want to add nothing to the actual discussion and are clearly clueless about the topic but still claim some completely misplaced moral high ground are extremely annoying. I like the forum format because, for the most part, people here are better than that. Unfortunately, not all. It indeed touches a nerve for me since arguing with people like you just wastes time. You are in the wrong but too ignorant to even understand it, don't even make an effort to somehow argue your "point", just gloat about "touching the nerve", which indeed you have.

There is nothing stupid about calling it a vacation. Many players at this level feel exactly like that about the IIHF tournaments. Being a Lithuanian I know this first hand. Now it has changed for us slightly since the division rework when more games are competitive but at division 2 and lower it surely is still the same. And especially applies to young Russian amateur hockey players whose age and life path usually means they are young, have lower income and didn't have a chance to see the world too much. Again, 20 years ago or so it was exactly the same here.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I've always wondered how the incentives line up in these cases. Like, Georgian hockey can't really be paying these guys that much, right? And it's not like the Russian players have any inherent desire to represent another country.

Not sure why they wouldn't, they are likely low level players (haven't checked the roster itself), they get an opportunity to play in national games, which they wouldn't otherwise get the chance to do, if they play well they can get noticed by a bigger club.

It's the same as asking what inherent desire a player like Nigel Dawes has to play for a country like Kazakhstan, I doubt there's a tone of tire greasing... probably just "yeah, sounds like fun, I'm in"

 

[WarriorofTime]

Plenty of athletes change nations so they are able to compete at the world level.

Freestyle wrestling in Russia is a great example. They are a world superpower who, in most any year, could send a number of people to worlds who could win or at least medal. They are so deep many guys are capable of podium finishes but can’t even compete on the world stage as they are caught behind the #1 in their country.

There was one year I remember the 74kg weight class had 7 Russians in it. 1 representing Russia and 6 competing for other nations.

This happens in USA in Swimming. The qualification process is often brutal, as they only get 2 competitors per event, but USA is such a dominant powerhouse, that a swimmer that is top 8 in the world in the event (which would make the Finals) might not even make the team because there are 2 ahead of that competitor with times good enough to medal. So if a competitor is eligible to compete for another country, they will likely take advantage of the opportunity so that they can make it to the Olympics.

A notable example was in what was arguably Michael Phelps most famous race in 2008 Olympics to stay alive in his eventual 8 Gold Medal triumph those games, the 100 meter butterfly final. That is where Phelps took an extra half stroke to just barely hit the wall ahead of his competitor by 0.01 seconds. The rival that he out-touched was a fella by the name of Milorad Čavić, who was representing Serbia. What a lot of people didn't realize is that Čavić was born in Anaheim, and had attended high school and college in California, and eventually opted to compete internationally for Serbia due to his parent's heritage. So in some ways that race was actually two Americans going at it right at the end there.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Not sure why they wouldn't, they are likely low level players (haven't checked the roster itself), they get an opportunity to play in national games, which they wouldn't otherwise get the chance to do, if they play well they can get noticed by a bigger club.

It's the same as asking what inherent desire a player like Nigel Dawes has to play for a country like Kazakhstan, I doubt there's a tone of tire greasing... probably just "yeah, sounds like fun, I'm in"

Again, many people seem to not understand we are talking about amateur hockey here, no club is looking for the players in D2. Most players don't even have "careers" as such, their careers are their day jobs.

At the same time, undoubtedly countries like Kazakhstan or Belarus did do craploads of "tire greasing". Very blatantly as well, in many cases. Like Dustin Boyd not ever suiting up for Kazakhstan when without a contract with Barys or Henrik Karlsson just openly stating that he doesn't play for Kazakhstan in 2021 because he didn't receive a good enough contract offer from Barys.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Again, many people seem to not understand we are talking about amateur hockey here, no club is looking for the players in D2. Most players don't even have "careers" as such, their careers are their day jobs.

At the same time, undoubtedly countries like Kazakhstan or Belarus did do craploads of "tire greasing". Very blatantly as well, in many cases. Like Dustin Boyd not ever suiting up for Kazakhstan when without a contract with Barys or Henrik Karlsson just openly stating that he doesn't play for Kazakhstan in 2021 because he didn't receive a good enough contract offer from Barys.

There are semi-pros teams, of which there are many layers of hockey that exists in the world. A player can still want the opportunity to move up to a bigger club, not necessarily talking about getting signed to a Big 7 Euro league or anything.

 

[SoundAndFury]

There are semi-pros teams, of which there are many layers of hockey that exists in the world. A player can still want the opportunity to move up to a bigger club, not necessarily talking about getting signed to a Big 7 Euro league or anything.

Yes, I know all about layers of hockey. What nations, teams or players do you have in mind? In any league where there is a trace of professional hockey, even at the very bottom of the pyramid - be it French 2nd division, Latvian league, Spain - nobody is giving you a contract based on your performance for your D2 national team.

And just to prove a point I know what I'm talking about pretty well, we had a guy from Mexico play in our league.

Hector Majul - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hector Majul, 1994-05-07 Mexico City, MEX Mexico. Most recently in the Italy2 with Valpellice Bulldogs. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

 

[WarriorofTime]

Yes, I know all about layers of hockey. What nations, teams or players do you have in mind? In any league where there is a trace of professional hockey, even at the very bottom of the pyramid - be it French 2nd division, Latvian league, Spain - nobody is giving you a contract based on your performance for your D2 national team.

And just to prove a point I know what I'm talking about pretty well, we had a guy from Mexico play in our league.

Hector Majul - Stats, Contract, Salary & More

Eliteprospects.com hockey player profile of Hector Majul, 1994-05-07 Mexico City, MEX Mexico. Most recently in the Italy2 with Valpellice Bulldogs. Complete player biography and stats.

www.eliteprospects.com

I admitted I hadn't looked through the actual roster, just speaking in terms of hypothetical, not exactly sure the reason for the hostility? I'm just stating that it's opportunity for the players involved, that's all. My understanding is all of these tournaments (obviously more closely the more towards the top) are scouted pretty well across Europe.

 

[Albatros]

It's probably more helpful if you want to see the world playing at semi-pro level rather than for finding opportunities at the highest level possible.

 

[CanadienShark]

Yes, people like you who want to add nothing to the actual discussion and are clearly clueless about the topic but still claim some completely misplaced moral high ground are extremely annoying. I like the forum format because, for the most part, people here are better than that. Unfortunately, not all. It indeed touches a nerve for me since arguing with people like you just wastes time. You are in the wrong but too ignorant to even understand it, don't even make an effort to somehow argue your "point", just gloat about "touching the nerve", which indeed you have.

There is nothing stupid about calling it a vacation. Many players at this level feel exactly like that about the IIHF tournaments. Being a Lithuanian I know this first hand. Now it has changed for us slightly since the division rework when more games are competitive but at division 2 and lower it surely is still the same. And especially applies to young Russian amateur hockey players whose age and life path usually means they are young, have lower income and didn't have a chance to see the world too much. Again, 20 years ago or so it was exactly the same here.

You're clearly really bothered by this. Relax. Calling it "vacation" is just not accurate.

 

[ozo]

You're clearly really bothered by this. Relax. Calling it "vacation" is just not accurate.

It is accurate.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You're clearly really bothered by this. Relax. Calling it "vacation" is just not accurate.

Because? You say so?

My understanding is all of these tournaments (obviously more closely the more towards the top) are scouted pretty well across Europe.

My hostility is likely related to the fact that I'm repeating the same thing for the third time: nobody is scouting IIHF Division 2 because how you do there against 90-95% amateur opposition is irrelevant to even semi-pro teams in Europe. Nor do those have a scouting staff. Nor will they risk giving you a part of their tiny salary budget on evidence like this. If you want to try your luck at the very bottom of the European hockey ladder you can get a try-out, if you come on your own dime.

Furthermore, the fact that these guys ended up in Georgia by itself means they have given up on any kind of hockey career because surely nobody is getting better by practicing 2-3 times per week after work and then playing a league game on a weekend where the competition level is such that even the weakest of MHL teams would likely just steamroll over it.

I understand it's fun to speculate but please, you are wrong, there is no need to double and triple down on it. What you are saying applies to D1B because the level there is roughly comparable to that at the bottom of the European pro hockey pyramid. For example, Ugnius Cizas got a contract in the EPIHL (that's a former tier 2 league in Great Brittain) after a successful WC. But that's it, there is nowhere lower to go. And even at 1B, the difference between top and bottom teams is dramatic, especially nowadays.

 

[CanadienShark]

It is accurate.

I disagree.

Because? You say so?

I'm pretty sure we're both offering opinions here.

 

[Albatros]

My hostility is likely related to the fact that I'm repeating the same thing for the third time: nobody is scouting IIHF Division 2 because how you do there against 90-95% amateur opposition is irrelevant to even semi-pro teams in Europe. Nor do those have a scouting staff. Nor will they risk giving you a part of their tiny salary budget on evidence like this. If you want to try your luck at the very bottom of the European hockey ladder you can get a try-out, if you come on your own dime.

It's still a little bit different if you've played at a recognizable level or indeed internationally if you're trying to arrange those opportunities abroad with limited local contacts, things like that can help quite a bit with initial skepticism as an ice breaker setting up that tryout even if no one's going to cover a cent for it alone.

 

[SoundAndFury]

It's still a little bit different if you've played at a recognizable level or indeed internationally if you're trying to arrange those opportunities abroad with limited local contacts, things like that can help quite a bit with initial skepticism as an ice breaker setting up that tryout even if no one's going to cover a cent for it alone.

While it is true to some degree, playing in any recognizable junior or men's league goes much much longer way than representing your NT. And let's face it, if you have pro aspirations you probably did play junior at semi-decent level.