Generational Talents

[Empoleon8771]

The term is too widely used and accepted.

If the bar is Gretzky, Mario, and Orr, three players who were unique in talent that was never seen before, then the only answer is McDavid. You can make a strong case for Lindros.

There's a huge difference between something you have never seen before and a great player.

I've seen great goal scorers like Ovechkin, until McDavid, I never saw a combination of size, skill, and high end speed with hands that could keep up with the wheels.

When you dummy down the term, you get media saying Connor Bedard is generational, which he clearly isn't. Great player, but not somebody once in a generation. And sorry Sid fans, great player, but nowhere near Mario, who was Gretzky super sized.

Saying there's a case for Lindros but Crosby has no case is downright silly. It doesn't matter if Lindros had a "unique skillset" when he was hurt as much as he was. Crosby objectively has had the much better career.

 

[GrandmaCookie]

The term is too widely used and accepted.

If the bar is Gretzky, Mario, and Orr, three players who were unique in talent that was never seen before, then the only answer is McDavid. You can make a strong case for Lindros.

There's a huge difference between something you have never seen before and a great player.

I've seen great goal scorers like Ovechkin, until McDavid, I never saw a combination of size, skill, and high end speed with hands that could keep up with the wheels.

When you dummy down the term, you get media saying Connor Bedard is generational, which he clearly isn't. Great player, but not somebody once in a generation. And sorry Sid fans, great player, but nowhere near Mario, who was Gretzky super sized.

I have seen next generational player, or has generational talent, but I don't think any media has called him an actual generational player.

And Bedard does have a special kind of talent that could make him the best out of his competition of the same generation. TBD but he was granted exceptional status in the CHL, 1OV pick in the NHL, was close to PPG in his rookie 18 years old season with next to no offensive support, Calder winner. I mean he is off to a good start.

 

[Waterbuf]

One thing I know is, its interesting and important to discuss.
Almost every day.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Saying there's a case for Lindros but Crosby has no case is downright silly. It doesn't matter if Lindros had a "unique skillset" when he was hurt as much as he was. Crosby objectively has had the much better career.

Is Stan Makita a generational talent?
Ron Francis?

You can make a strong case Francis had a better career then Crosby.

Dionne, Yzerman, Sakic. If Crosby is generational, then all of those guys are generational.

You can make a strong case that Patrick Kane has had just as good a career as Crosby. Is he generational?

There's alot of Crosby types, there was nothing like prime Lindros.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Stan Makita a generational talent?
Ron Francis?

You can make a strong case Francis had a better career then Crosby.

Dionne, Yzerman, Sakic. If Crosby is generational, then all of those guys are generational.

You can make a strong case that Patrick Kane has had just as good a career as Crosby. Is he generational?

There's alot of Crosby types, there was nothing like prime Lindros.

Lmfao you absolutely cannot make that case.

Literally what are you talking about? Crosby's accomplishments smokes every single player you mentioned in this post. Francis, Dionne and Yzerman literally never even won a Hart while Sakic only had one, how are those guys equal to Crosby?

Mikita is at least a more reasonable comparison, but the rest are completely laughable.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

I have seen next generational player, or has generational talent, but I don't think any media has called him an actual generational player.

Google is your friend.

Theres over 15 news outlets who made articles stating Bedard a generational talent. Sportsnet being one of them and surely some bloggers suffering from brain rot.

And Bedard does have a special kind of talent that could make him the best out of his competition of the same generation. TBD but he was granted exceptional status in the CHL, 1OV pick in the NHL, was close to PPG in his rookie 18 years old season with next to no offensive support, Calder winner. I mean he is off to a good start.

Doesn't mean he's a generational talent

 

[norrisnick]

What constitute same generation tho?

For example, people make the argument Jagr is not generational because he was eclipsed by Lemieux. But Lemieux domination was 84-97, while Jagr was 95-00.

Generations are certainly longer than the gap between Gretzky and Lemieux.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Lmfao you absolutely cannot make that case.

Literally what are you talking about? Crosby's accomplishments smokes every single player you mentioned in this post. Francis, Dionne and Yzerman literally never even won a Hart while Sakic only had one, how are those guys equal to Crosby?

Mikita is at least a more reasonable comparison, but the rest are completely laughable.

So you are basing generational talent on individual awards?

How can you compare Crosby to Ovechkin?

You cannot say Crosby was better then Bossy. Two Hart trophies say he is?

Come on now....

 

[archangel2]

Considering no one can agree what the definition of what " A Generational" Talent is, that maybe viewed as the problem

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you are basing generational talent on individual awards?

How can you compare Crosby to Ovechkin?

You cannot say Crosby was better then Bossy. Two Hart trophies say he is?

Come on now....

Dude you're literally saying Patrick Kane has arguably a comparable career to Crosby. Don't "come on now" me, you're posting some of the dumbest things I've ever seen on this board.

Crosby has won multiple of pretty much every major award while being on pace to finish top-5 in points. To argue that Ron Francis has a "strong case" for having a better career than Crosby is such a monumentally stupid thing to say that it pretty much paints you as someone not even worth having a discussion with. It's such a bad and insane thing to post that it makes it completely worthless to even discuss the topic with you.

Ron Francis' career achievements are being a 2nd line center on 2 cup winners, winning 1 Selke and having a very long career. To say that's arguably better than Crosby's career is so out of touch that I genuinely cannot fathom how you can argue that without some anti-Crosby agenda. I'm not even saying Francis is a bad player, he was a phenomenal player, but what the f*** are you talking about?

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Dude you're literally saying Patrick Kane has arguably a comparable career to Crosby.

They both have three Cups.

What, do you consider successful? Winning a Stanley Cup? Or individual awards?

Go watch that Oilers doc and see just how much players care about individual awards and McDavid crying in his jock about losing the Cup.

No matter what anybody thinks, individual awards are like side quest bonuses in a video game. It's a trinket compared to the main quest.

Don't "come on now" me, you're posting some of the dumbest things I've ever seen on this board.

Mike Bossy is better then Sidney Crosby. Has four Cups, never scored less then 50 goals a year until his final year when he couldn't bend over and Sidney Crosby is a generational talent?

Come on now

Crosby has won multiple of pretty much every major award while being on pace to finish top-5 in points. To argue that Ron Francis has a "strong case" for having a better career than Crosby is such a monumentally stupid thing to say that it pretty much paints you as someone not even worth having a discussion with. It's such a bad and insane thing to post that it makes it completely worthless to even discuss the topic with you.

Breathe.

Ron Francis is top 10 in all time scoring, won two cups, and was better defensively then Crosby ever was who was a second line center because some guy named Mario was the 1C, who also played 1C when Mario was injured.

You are trying to undermine a top 10 all time in scoring player to prop up Crosby? An arguably better all round player? Because Crosby has individual awards?



Again, who had a better career, Bossy or Crosby?

Is Mike Bossy a generational talent?

 

[Empoleon8771]

They both have three Cups.

What, do you consider successful? Winning a Stanley Cup? Or individual awards?

Go watch that Oilers doc and see just how much players care about individual awards and McDavid crying in his jock about losing the Cup.

No matter what anybody thinks, individual awards are like side quest bonuses in a video game. It's a trinket compared to the main quest.


Mike Bossy is better then Sidney Crosby. Has four Cups, never scored less then 50 goals a year until his final year when he couldn't bend over and Sidney Crosby is a generational talent?

Come on now


Breathe.

Ron Francis is top 10 in all time scoring, won two cups, and was better defensively then Crosby ever was who was a second line center because some guy named Mario was the 1C, who also played 1C when Mario was injured.

You are trying to undermine a top 10 all time in scoring player to prop up Crosby? An arguably better all round player? Because Crosby has individual awards?

Recency bias is another form of brain rot.

Again, who had a better career, Bossy or Crosby?

Is Mike Bossy a generational talent?

Your posts remind me of why the main board has such a bad reputation.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Your posts remind me of why the main board has such a bad reputation.

White flag duly noted.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Gordie Howe and McDavid are probably closest. And Hasek for goalies.

Ken Dryden enters then chat....

 

[DJN21]

in before someone beats me to Marcus Foligno....hes my goat

 

[Empoleon8771]

White flag duly noted.

No, it’s that you don’t argue with any shred of consistency and your entire arguments are “conclusion first and reasons later”.

You say that Francis is comparable to Crosby due to his 2-way game. Then you completely disregard that criteria in a discussion about Kane, saying how he’s equal because of cups. Which somehow didn’t matter with Francis (who has fewer cups than Crosby) and now the 2-way game doesn’t matter with Kane (who has a clearly worse 2-way game). Then you bring up Bossy when he literally never won a major award, but you also brought up that Ovi was better because he had more major awards.

There’s no consistency beyond “here’s why this guy is better than Crosby”. It is so painfully obvious you have a conclusion and work backwards to come up with reasons to support it. And that’s why I said “this reminds me of why the main boards suck”. It’s a bunch of people with conclusions already made coming up with random and contradictory reasons for their conclusions.

The reality is that the only guys who have as extensive of a resume as Crosby are the players in the top-5 of all time. You can come up with guys who have more individual awards, guys with more cups, guys who produced more, guys who were better defensively and whatever else. But you won’t find any of those players that fit all of those, which Crosby does. Crosby is one of a select few of players who has as complete and well rounded of a career in NHL history. There is pretty much nothing he hasn’t accomplished in the NHL. And that is why he’s a consensus top-10 player all time and is likely #6, just after Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and McDavid.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

Ovechkin Datsyuk and Karlsson are the only generational players. Hockey before 2005 doesn't count.

 

[bleachdrinker]

Sean Avery was a generational pest

 

[La Bamba]

This term is so overused

To be honest, it should only be Gretzky, Mario, and Orr in that order

 

[Nogatco Rd]

I read the last page or two of the, Is Makar a generational talent and thought, what is a generational talent?

The only generational talents were Gretzky, Lemieux and Orr. Anyone can argue for anyone else but this is the bar. These three were head and shoulders above their peers and especially in Orr's case, he altered the way defensemen played the game. Is there anyone else who is this caliber of player? Maybe one or two and I'm not even sure who they might be. Everyone else after these guys were elite players but not generational.

The term generational is thrown around way too much and looking at the term, you'd think each generation that comes through the league will have one or two of these players. I don't think this was the intent of the term. I think the intent was, who were the players that changed the game and/or were head and shoulders above everyone they played against. Orr fits the bill on both accounts and Gretzky and Lemieux were on a completely different level offensively from anyone before, during or after their tenures.

Who else compares to these three?

Pretty arbitrary line that you’re drawing.

It’s cool if you want to consider those 3 in an entirely different echelon from anyone else, but it quite literally goes against definition of “generational” to say that in 105+ years of pro hockey, there were only 3 generational (i.e., found once every 15-25 years) players.

To me, generational is anyone who is so talented that you typically only expect to see such a player once every 15-25 years. I see no reason it couldn’t be applied positionally as well, which means you end up with 3-4x as many ‘generational players’

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I'm a generational username.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

No, it’s that you don’t argue with any shred of consistency and your entire arguments are “conclusion first and reasons later”.

You say that Francis is comparable to Crosby due to his 2-way game. Then you completely disregard that criteria in a discussion about Kane, saying how he’s equal because of cups. Which somehow didn’t matter with Francis (who has fewer cups than Crosby) and now the 2-way game doesn’t matter with Kane (who has a clearly worse 2-way game). Then you bring up Bossy when he literally never won a major award, but you also brought up that Ovi was better because he had more major awards.

There’s no consistency beyond “here’s why this guy is better than Crosby”. It is so painfully obvious you have a conclusion and work backwards to come up with reasons to support it. And that’s why I said “this reminds me of why the main boards suck”. It’s a bunch of people with conclusions already made coming up with random and contradictory reasons for their conclusions.

The reality is that the only guys who have as extensive of a resume as Crosby are the players in the top-5 of all time. You can come up with guys who have more individual awards, guys with more cups, guys who produced more, guys who were better defensively and whatever else. But you won’t find any of those players that fit all of those, which Crosby does. Crosby is one of a select few of players who has as complete and well rounded of a career in NHL history. There is pretty much nothing he hasn’t accomplished in the NHL. And that is why he’s a consensus top-10 player all time and is likely #6, just after Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Howe and McDavid.

You just should have took the L and moved on.

But since you didn't....

Mike Bossy is better then Sid. If your only argument is individual awards when Bossy played in the same era as prime Gretzky its similar to saying Francis was a 2C on a team with prime Mario.

Is Guy Lafleur generational? His resume doesn't stack up better then Sids, it stacks a HELL of alot better then Sids.

I get it, you are a sid fan, nobody said Sid is a bad player because he isn't, but generational? Not at all. A generational player is a once in a generation player and when you are playing at the same time as probably the best goal scorer of all time, you are not generational. Sid is on the same level as Patrick Kane and no offense, I'd rather have the puck on Kanes stick in a game seven with the score tied. Same level as Sakic, Yzerman, Ron Francis.

And no offense, any talk of Sidney Crosby as a top ten player of all time is just recency bias silly speak.

Gretzky
Mario
Orr
Bossy
Hull
Lafleur
Richard
Harvey
Howe
Jagr
Lidstrom
Espo
Ovechkin
Mcdavid

Off the top of my head are all better then Sid.

Stop with this generational label nonsense.