OT: General OT MEGATHREAD (No Politics) Pt. 3 - Read OP before posting

[CapitalsCupReality]

W T F…

 

[usiel]

Not sure where this should go but long interview with Ted Leonsis by Bloomberg Original that is worth the watch. The one thing he said that stuck with me was that the one thing that he hadn't been able to decode yet was the NBA so bringing a championship to DC was something that is a priority.

 

[kicksavedave]

Not sure where this should go but long interview with Ted Leonsis by Bloomberg Original that is worth the watch. The one thing he said that stuck with me was that the one thing that he hadn't been able to decode yet was the NBA so bringing a championship to DC was something that is a priority.

Whats there to decode? Tank for 4-5 years and get lottery luck, or magically be one of the 3 teams that Shaq or LeBron are willing to play for. Th Wiz went all in with 3 purely meh star players getting way overpaid, and it cost them a decade of being really competitive. We all saw it coming, why didn't he?

 

[Ridley Simon]

Whats there to decode? Tank for 4-5 years and get lottery luck, or magically be one of the 3 teams that Shaq or LeBron are willing to play for. Th Wiz went all in with 3 purely meh star players getting way overpaid, and it cost them a decade of being really competitive. We all saw it coming, why didn't he?

His loyalty to the hockey people was skillful, advantageous, and prescient. All good.

His loyalty to the basketball people was short sighted, erroneously thought through, and child like. All bad.

So, that about sums it up.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

His loyalty to the hockey people was skillful, advantageous, and prescient. All good.

His loyalty to the basketball people was short sighted, erroneously thought through, and child like. All bad.

So, that about sums it up.

I mean he stumbled with GMGM in that aspect also. He just hasn’t hired the right mind to run Basketball Ops. The current guy looks legit so far at least.

They need the get lucky in the lottery part now….

 

[Ridley Simon]

I mean he stumbled with GMGM in that aspect also. He just hasn’t hired the right mind to run Basketball Ops. The current guy looks legit so far at least.

They need the get lucky in the lottery part now….

He went w the “2nd in Command after 17yrs” option on both fronts.

One was spectacular (GMBM), and one was ugh (GMTS).

 

[kicksavedave]

I don't know if he stumbled with GMGM. He built part of the team that went to the Cup finals in 98, then had a clear rebuild job which ended up with a few President's Trophies, so he clearly did some things very well. He never got them over the Penguins, and neglected the defense a bit, but his teams were overall outstanding for a lot of years. GMBM inherited quite a core from George, and took it over the top. If there is a criticism of Ted regarding GMGM, its that maybe he let him linger a couple years long, or maybe he didn't interfere with his rookie coaching hires enough, but those are nit picks IMO.

When I see what dude like Dubas are doing with the Pens, it shines GMGM is a better light looking back. And of course his time in Vegas speaks for itself.

The Wiz on the other hand, ugh, 4 decades of suckitude, and counting.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't know if he stumbled with GMGM. He built part of the team that went to the Cup finals in 98, then had a clear rebuild job which ended up with a few President's Trophies, so he clearly did some things very well. He never got them over the Penguins, and neglected the defense a bit, but his teams were overall outstanding for a lot of years. GMBM inherited quite a core from George, and took it over the top. If there is a criticism of Ted regarding GMGM, its that maybe he let him linger a couple years long, or maybe he didn't interfere with his rookie coaching hires enough, but those are nit picks IMO.

When I see what dude like Dubas are doing with the Pens, it shines GMGM is a better light looking back. And of course his time in Vegas speaks for itself.

The Wiz on the other hand, ugh, 4 decades of suckitude, and counting.

Objectively he waited some YEARS too long to move on from GMGM, wasting some of an all time great’s best years. Call it stumble or whatever you want.

 

[usiel]

 

[Ridley Simon]

I don't know if he stumbled with GMGM. He built part of the team that went to the Cup finals in 98, then had a clear rebuild job which ended up with a few President's Trophies, so he clearly did some things very well. He never got them over the Penguins, and neglected the defense a bit, but his teams were overall outstanding for a lot of years. GMBM inherited quite a core from George, and took it over the top. If there is a criticism of Ted regarding GMGM, its that maybe he let him linger a couple years long, or maybe he didn't interfere with his rookie coaching hires enough, but those are nit picks IMO.

When I see what dude like Dubas are doing with the Pens, it shines GMGM is a better light looking back. And of course his time in Vegas speaks for itself.

The Wiz on the other hand, ugh, 4 decades of suckitude, and counting.

I think the whole coaching “thing” has been more about Ted n Dick that it did the GM.

I think, post Reirden, the GM is finally calling the coaching shots. We dont know that was the case — at all — up til the whole Oates fiasco.

There was a story that George wanted Cooper, right? And that was when they hired Oates instead?

Oddly enough — they had the Cassidy vision correct — just way way way too early

 

[kicksavedave]

I think the whole coaching “thing” has been more about Ted n Dick that it did the GM.

I think, post Reirden, the GM is finally calling the coaching shots. We dont know that was the case — at all — up til the whole Oates fiasco.

There was a story that George wanted Cooper, right? And that was when they hired Oates instead?

Oddly enough — they had the Cassidy vision correct — just way way way too early

Well my point about Ted over staying George, is to ask when was the right time to fire him? After the rebuild, once it became clear that Hanlon wasn't the guy to get them over the hump, should George have been fired then, when he had actually loaded up the team with a really good young core? (the Young Guns)? Ok in comes Gabby, who gave them some really incredible regular seasons and a Presidents Trophy? Should George have been fired during that run? Maybe after one of the playoff disappointments?

Once it became clear that Gabby had lost the room, he turned to Dale, who did Dale things and got them to game 7 of the conf finals in his first year? Should he have been fired then, when Dale decided he liked being back in London? Maybe, maybe not?

Then Adam Oates, who everyone was excited about at first, and at least made the playoffs before doing Adam Oates things and the team imploding? And that's when GMGM was let go.

So basically he rebuilt the team into an annual playoff participant with some great regular seasons sprinkled in, and the first time they fail to make the playoffs under this rebuilt core, he's gone.

So I guess if we say he was kept too long, then exactly when was the right time for Ted to have fired GMGM? Not a nebulous statement like "too long" but when exactly should he have been fired? Its a fair question.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

2011 after being swept by the Bolts? (2nd in NHL)

2010 after Montreal? (1st in NHL)

2009 after getting dusted in game 7 by the Pens? (4th in NHL)



He became too close to it all, wasn’t making the proper objective moves by not properly addressing the D year after year. Look what the next guy came in and immediately fixed.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Well my point about Ted over staying George, is to ask when was the right time to fire him? After the rebuild, once it became clear that Hanlon wasn't the guy to get them over the hump, should George have been fired then, when he had actually loaded up the team with a really good young core? (the Young Guns)? Ok in comes Gabby, who gave them some really incredible regular seasons and a Presidents Trophy? Should George have been fired during that run? Maybe after one of the playoff disappointments?

Once it became clear that Gabby had lost the room, he turned to Dale, who did Dale things and got them to game 7 of the conf finals in his first year? Should he have been fired then, when Dale decided he liked being back in London? Maybe, maybe not?

Then Adam Oates, who everyone was excited about at first, and at least made the playoffs before doing Adam Oates things and the team imploding? And that's when GMGM was let go.

So basically he rebuilt the team into an annual playoff participant with some great regular seasons sprinkled in, and the first time they fail to make the playoffs under this rebuilt core, he's gone.

So I guess if we say he was kept too long, then exactly when was the right time for Ted to have fired GMGM? Not a nebulous statement like "too long" but when exactly should he have been fired? Its a fair question.

It should have been when Dale left. George’s failures were from 2009-2012. Those teams should’ve had a better defense. Period End.

He shouldn’t have been the GM, and Oates shouldn’t have been the coach. So, I’d wager 2yrs earlier, at most?

I don’t think GMGM was a failure. Not at all. He was really good. He just had some tunnel vision and over stayed his welcome a little bit.

Nothing like Grunfeld though. Nothing at all.

McPhee will arguably go to the HoF for his lifelong performance in the NHL. Grunfeld just hopes that people spell his name correctly.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Once it became clear that Gabby had lost the room, he turned to Dale, who did Dale things and got them to game 7 of the conf finals in his first year? Should he have been fired then, when Dale decided he liked being back in London?

conference semi finals

 

[usiel]

It should have been when Dale left. George’s failures were from 2009-2012. Those teams should’ve had a better defense. Period End.

He shouldn’t have been the GM, and Oates shouldn’t have been the coach. So, I’d wager 2yrs earlier, at most?

I don’t think GMGM was a failure. Not at all. He was really good. He just had some tunnel vision and over stayed his welcome a little bit.

Nothing like Grunfeld though. Nothing at all.

McPhee will arguably go to the HoF for his lifelong performance in the NHL. Grunfeld just hopes that people spell his name correctly.

Oh 100% agree on the bolded. They were in on Chara and got beat out by Boston. Another hypothetical would if they had been able to trade for Federov in the first couple of years of AOs career would have been impactful.

 

[Jags]

I don't think it's a matter of Leonsis being unable to decode the NBA. The issue is the implication that he decoded the NHL just because the team won a Cup. It's pretty clear in retrospect that management and coaching were not on the same page during our Cup year, and the behind-the-scenes strife wasn't good for anyone.

The coaches and players went out and won it in the end, but it's not clear to me that Leonsis had anything to do with it. His positive involvement in the Caps, to me, has always boiled down to being willing to spend to the cap, balancing business with culture, and letting the hockey people do hockey things. That's it.

The NBA is harder. Fewer positions, fungible cap league. The NBA has arrived at a place where you must be a destination or draft exceptionally well, and you have to get those marquee pieces together quickly because it's hard to retain talent on a loser. So you have to BE in a position of power and operate well FROM a position of power to compete in the NBA. Not being able to get into that power position to begin with has been the struggle.

Leonsis is a good owner in general, but he lacks that X factor, and that deficiency is more pronounced in the NBA.