General Off-Day Thread (bitch about Mike Sullivan)

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I’m starting to wonder if he’s in a catch 22 type situation. He can’t slow down their style of play because the it’s the only reason the player’s want him around. If he would change they would then want him out.

I do find it funny that the US team is obviously not listening to him. He keeps talking about composure and three of his players were like “yeah we’re going to do what we want anyway.”
I dunno about them not listening to him. That third period was pretty vintage Sully/Torts hockey in terms of how they tried to shut the game down and how they didn't even attempt to play offense lol.

For better or worse they are playing Sully hockey.
 
I’m starting to wonder if he’s in a catch 22 type situation. He can’t slow down their style of play because the it’s the only reason the player’s want him around. If he would change they would then want him out.

I do find it funny that the US team is obviously not listening to him. He keeps talking about composure and three of his players were like “yeah we’re going to do what we want anyway.”

The Pens don't play a fast style. I know it sucks to watch our games, but if you haven't seen that we haven't played a fast style for more than a couple games in 7 years I dunno what to tell you. The only thing left from 2016 is risky attempts at fast breaks. He HAS slowed down our style, he did it in 2017, and we've sucked ever since.

We play passive pack the net defense, push the puck up the boards on breakouts and have no organisation or pace to our offense. We get fewer oddmans than just about every other team. We're poorly coached on man-to-man defense, we don't give a shit about reading the play on D, we play passive in our zone that means we get the puck way down low and never get easy goals, we're uncreative on breakouts and yeah our best players are almost 40. It's got nothing to do with playing fast, it's that we play a style built for plugs to keep games close, which kills our offense, but we make horrible individual plays on defense so we get scored on anyway.

Maybe Sid doesn't see it, but Sully isn't caught on anything. He wants us to play this way because he thinks it's the best way to stay in games and refuses to try anything else. Sid, Geno and Letang are here because they've been here for 20 years and they love each other and their lives in Pittsburgh, not because they're attached to losing every night with an unwatchable style.
 
Sullivan is not God's gift to coaching, but he is one of the best coaches in the NHL right now.
If/when we replace him, it will be at least one step down. Maybe more.

Nope. It is neither Dubas nor Sullivan's fault that neither of them has the Fountain of Youth.

Dubas, at least, recognizes the need for the team to get younger. He's been talking about it for about a year now.
A step down because of what, his past? Vs what he is doing currently?

Sullivan's a coach a team that is a contender, should want. A team that needs more from the coach to develop and guide, he falls short in a f***ton of ways. By your logic, there's a lot of great coaches in this league that others would disagree on based on what they're doing for their current teams. That's what should matter - what they are doing for their current teams.

Sullivan isn't a fit and the team isn't a fit for him. It's been obvious for a long time but the fact he won 2 cups back 2 back, means they will destroy this team and it's future hoping Sullivan finds the fight mix on the roster to get back to being great and that is 100% not happening ever again with this franchise. He's not a coach you want around young players, he's a coach you want if you're the Jets and they fail in the first round with the roster they have.

The Pens don't play a fast style. I know it sucks to watch our games, but if you haven't seen that we haven't played a fast style for more than a couple games in 7 years I dunno what to tell you. The only thing left from 2016 is risky attempts at fast breaks. He HAS slowed down our style, he did it in 2017, and we've sucked ever since.

We play passive pack the net defense, push the puck up the boards on breakouts and have no organisation or pace to our offense. We get fewer oddmans than just about every other team. We're poorly coached on man-to-man defense, we don't give a shit about reading the play on D, we play passive in our zone that means we get the puck way down low and never get easy goals, we're uncreative on breakouts and yeah our best players are almost 40. It's got nothing to do with playing fast, it's that we play a style built for plugs to keep games close, which kills our offense, but we make horrible individual plays on defense so we get scored on anyway.

Maybe Sid doesn't see it, but Sully isn't caught on anything. He wants us to play this way because he thinks it's the best way to stay in games and refuses to try anything else. Sid, Geno and Letang are here because they've been here for 20 years and they love each other and their lives in Pittsburgh, not because they're attached to losing every night with an unwatchable style.
And this notion this team doesn't have fast players is bullshit. The team plays slow. A lot of us have stated it for a while. Speed isn't just foot speed it's a system that the team believes (which makes them quicker with the puck and decisions) in and one that adapts and works and allows for instinctual movements with the puck vs what they do now, doubt and hesitate because their style doesn't make sense with this roster and hasn't for over 3 seasons.
 
I dunno about them not listening to him. That third period was pretty vintage Sully/Torts hockey in terms of how they tried to shut the game down and how they didn't even attempt to play offense lol.

For better or worse they are playing Sully hockey.
Yeah and the difference is - he needs basically a stacked roster like the Pens did in their 2 cups. He needs elite talent to bail out any warts the coaching staff and their decisions may cause.

Without that, it's a blunder. Only difference is Torts actually seems to squeeze out more juice regardless of roster, which grates players. Sullivan has zero patience and thinking outside of the box isn't even an option, if his system fails - to him, the team failed to execute, always this.

This Sweden game, for 40mins it looked like Swedes had a powerplay for both periods with how much they controlled the puck. Then the Yanks try in the third.

Textbook f***ing Sullivan system. He loses a couple of elite players out of his bloody 20 and it goes to shit.
 
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Yeah and the difference is - he needs basically a stacked roster like the Pens did in their 2 cups. He needs elite talent to bail out any warts the coaching staff and their decisions may cause.

Without that, it's a blunder. Only difference is Torts actually seems to squeeze out more juice regardless of roster, which grates players. Sullivan has zero patience and thinking outside of the box isn't even an option, if his system fails - to him, the team failed to execute, always this.

This Sweden game, for 40mins it looked like Swedes had a powerplay for both periods with how much they controlled the puck. Then the Yanks try in the third.

Textbook f***ing Sullivan system. He loses a couple of elite players out of his bloody 20 and it goes to shit.
I am very curious how Sullivan would do away from the Pens but this org refuses to let that happen so we may never see it. But yeah the only sustained success he has had at the NHL level has been with stacked rosters.

Hasn't gone so well for him when the Pens rosters took a step back
 
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I am very curious how Sullivan would do away from the Pens but this org refuses to let that happen so we may never see it. But yeah the only sustained success he has had at the NHL level has been with stacked rosters.

Hasn't gone so well for him when the Pens rosters took a step back
The only actually success is the 2 cups. The moment he needed to be more, the teams started to fail and hasn't won a single playoff round because of it with multiple gms trying to get him his type of players and those players failing with usage or not being a fit.

Like I said, both things can be true - he's a good coach and also a bad coach for this team. He's not a coach you want for the Pens current situation. It's ignorance that keeps him there.

Even when the rosters took a step back after 2017, his decisions with the roster started to show warts. It's never gotten better, just worse and more blatant. This team is on a path to find its future while hanging on to hoping the past resurfaces with zero evidence it could.
 
The only actually success is the 2 cups. The moment he needed to be more, the teams started to fail and hasn't won a single playoff round because of it with multiple gms trying to get him his type of players and those players failing with usage or not being a fit.

Like I said, both things can be true - he's a good coach and also a bad coach for this team. He's not a coach you want for the Pens current situation. It's ignorance that keeps him there.

Even when the rosters took a step back after 2017, his decisions with the roster started to show warts. It's never gotten better, just worse and more blatant. This team is on a path to find its future while hanging on to hoping the past resurfaces with zero evidence it could.
Yeah I think that's the kicker right there: regardless of whether he is a good coach being held back by a bad roster or a mediocre coach or even a bad one - the fact is he's not a fit for the Pens and hasn't been for several years now.

Every coach has a shelf life and he's long past his with the team. Even ignoring that he's clearly not the type of coach you want for a rebuild as he's wired to win at all costs and is going to try to play vets at the expense of young players.
 
We sold our soul to the devil for 2017. We had no right going back to back and we've paid for it ever since. It locked in Sully and his 2017 mindset in a way that wouldn't have happened had we lost. If we could've somehow realised that 2016 was the way to go instead of 17, we'd be in a far different place. It's worth it to lock in Sid and the gang's legacies, but fark the price is steep. 8 years of this crap since then.
 
A step down because of what, his past? Vs what he is doing currently?
A step down because of what he is doing currently.
Sullivan's a coach a team that is a contender, should want.
He's a coach that any team should want.
A team that needs more from the coach to develop and guide, he falls short in a f***ton of ways.
Nope. He is very good at both developing players and getting the most out of a contending team.
The problem, of course, is that he hasn't had very many players who are talented enough to play in the NHL within the past few seasons, so he hasn't been able to demonstrate his ability to develop players. Nonetheless, Drew O'Connor is a recent success story.
He's not a coach you want around young players,
Yes, he is.
 
A step down because of what he is doing currently.

He's a coach that any team should want.

Nope. He is very good at both developing players and getting the most out of a contending team.
The problem, of course, is that he hasn't had very many players who are talented enough to play in the NHL within the past few seasons, so he hasn't been able to demonstrate his ability to develop players. Nonetheless, Drew O'Connor is a recent success story.

Yes, he is.

This is fan fiction, right?
 
Name one player of significance he has "developed" since 2017.

I think Marino and Pettersson both fall in this category. Even if you think Marino shouldn't count because he came in NHL ready from day 1, I think MP definitely should fall in that category.

Sullivan's track record of developing players in the NHL isn't good recently, but I do feel a part of that is due to the GMs as well though. JR was significantly better at acquiring young NHLers with room to grow than Hextall or Dubas.
 
Every thread is a Sullivan thread.

Well when you have all these symptoms: weakened immune system, persistent coughing, etc. It all comes back to "yea it sucks we have cancer".

If you don't get the analogy, Sullivan is the cancer that has grown and infected every corner of this organization. From player development, player usage, FA signings, etc. Sullivan has ruined it all.
 
Well when you have all these symptoms: weakened immune system, persistent coughing, etc. It all comes back to "yea it sucks we have cancer".

If you don't get the analogy, Sullivan is the cancer that has grown and infected every corner of this organization. From player development, player usage, FA signings, etc. Sullivan has ruined it all.
It has Mass-tastisized...
 

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