General manager believes hiring Rick Bowness as head coach was a "seismic" move that should pay off.

[Jetfaninflorida]

I never ommited his games coached for wins OR losses. I just brought up that in order to lose that many games, you have to coach a lot of games. Shitty coaches usually don't get that opportunity.

I also agree that his results aren't excellent when you compare him with a lot of other guys that coached that many games. You'd have to account for the strength of the teams (compare the canes and jets to scotty bowman's teams for example). How many of his games were his goalies pavs or arturs irbe?

I think you may be confusing me defending pomo with me thinking he's awesome. I don't. But the way some people paint him as the worst coach in the world isn't accurate either. As with everything, the truth lies in the middle somewhere. He's certainly to blame for at least some of the shortcomings this team has had, just like he deserves credit for some of it's accomplishments.

We had some success in 2017-18 under Maurice, although we were heavily favored to beat Vegas and ended up losing out with 4 losses in a row to them.

Other than that, our playoff success under Maurice was pretty sparce. We only won 3 playoff series in all those Maurice years IIRC. We lost out of the playoffs by losing 4 straight games 3 out of 4 times we made the postseason with Maurice. It's not that easy to lose 4 straight post season games but our Maurice led team was good at it.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

46 wins is a legitimate playoff contender, 43 is not. Trotz also did most of that that with a lot less talent that PM has had access to over the last 8 years.

46 wins would have only been 3 points more than the Jets got last year.

 

[lomiller1]

I suggest you go back and watch the preseason games and training camp, Connor had a horrible start to the season and he shouldn’t have been in the NHL based on what he showed early in the year.

I mean your argument is Maurice didn’t do a good job with how he handled Connor and Ehlers yet they both turned into pretty damn good players, you have to think Maurice played a factor in that.

No he didn't that was a completely false narrative made up to defend bad coaching decisions. He was clearly ready for the NHL at that point and could do nothing more in the AHL.

 

[Buffdog]

He'd already developed OK he just needed to play in the NHL. We got lucky someone got injured or he could have been stagnating in the AHL for who knows how long. Make no mistake it WAS PM's decision that he wouldn't play him that caused him to be sent down.

You seem to be creating no-loose scenarios for this type of bad coaching decision. Coach won't play a guy and he stagnates, "player sucked and coach made the right choice!!!" Coach won't play a guy but then has his hand forced due to injury "See, it worked what brilliant coaching!!!". This type of thinking that the coach can do no wrong is why we are where we are now, had the PM problems been dealt with 4 years ago the organization would likely be in a much better place now.

I'm not creating "no-lose scenarios" - you put that one out there as a pomo gaffe but it actually turned out OK.

I'm willing to give pomo shit for lots of things like overplaying his top line and that absolutely ridiculous man on man d zone coverage (and possibly his "hands off the room philosophy"). But I'm also willing to give him credit for the positives and give him a pass for the things he had no control over

At the same time, it seems like you're blaming everything on him - in other words, doing the exact same thing that's you're accusing me of doing - but opposite.

46 wins is a legitimate playoff contender, 43 is not. Trotz also did most of that that with a lot less talent that PM has had access to over the last 8 years.

Go back and look at his line ups in Hartford and Toronto

 

[Imcanadianeh]

No he didn't that was a completely false narrative made up to defend bad coaching decisions. He was clearly ready for the NHL at that point and could do nothing more in the AHL.

It’s not a completely false narrative it is extremely true, clearly you have your mind made up and won’t go back and watch his preseason so there is no point is even discussing this at this point.

Edit: just quickly looked up Connors preseason stats from 17-18. He had 0 GF with 5 GA and a 42.09 xGF%

 

[Upperdeckjet]

The more I see and hear from Bowness, the more I'm convinced he is the right coach for our team right now. Really good hire by Chevy (?) even if game one is not in the books yet.

 

[DRW204]

I never ommited his games coached for wins OR losses. I just brought up that in order to lose that many games, you have to coach a lot of games. Shitty coaches usually don't get that opportunity.

I also agree that his results aren't excellent when you compare him with a lot of other guys that coached that many games. You'd have to account for the strength of the teams (compare the canes and jets to scotty bowman's teams for example). How many of his games were his goalies pavs or arturs irbe?

I think you may be confusing me defending pomo with me thinking he's awesome. I don't. But the way some people paint him as the worst coach in the world isn't accurate either. As with everything, the truth lies in the middle somewhere. He's certainly to blame for at least some of the shortcomings this team has had, just like he deserves credit for some of it's accomplishments.

yes you did. you only brought up the fact you'd get a lot of Ls with a lot of Games Coached. but no problem in pointing out his Ws w/o bringing up his games coached in post#43.

he isn't the worst nhl calibre coach n the world, sure. dont think many say this. all i know is, based on the sample of coaches with similar gp he ranks near last in some pretty notable areas as posted previously. Can you refute this?

so do you give him minimal credit for 17-18 since that was a stacked roster? there's coaches that progress further and faster than what maurice got in less of a tenure length. some of it falls on the gm for sure.

Anyway Maurice is gone and good riddance. Jets fans should be happy all around.

No he didn't that was a completely false narrative made up to defend bad coaching decisions. He was clearly ready for the NHL at that point and could do nothing more in the AHL.

No no no.
Connor went from not nhl calibre to a 30+ goal scorer in the 2ish weeks he spent in the AHL that season

 

[lomiller1]

I'm not creating "no-lose scenarios" - you put that one out there as a pomo gaffe but it actually turned out OK.

Lucking into something that turns out ok isn't a reliable way to build a winning team. It was a gaff, a total miss on talent evaluation, unless you think 4 AHL games caused massive improvements in Connors game.

 

[lomiller1]

It’s not a completely false narrative it is extremely true, clearly you have your mind made up and won’t go back and watch his preseason so there is no point is even discussing this at this point.

Edit: just quickly looked up Connors preseason stats from 17-18. He had 0 GF with 5 GA and a 42.09 xGF%

ANd you think 4 AHL games changed anything? Seriously? He was the same player in preseason as he was the 76 regular season games he played. Everyone with a little could see the strengths and weakness that existed (and to some extend still exist) in his game and that he needed to be in the NHL to continue to progress as a player.

PM was simply too focused on his 1990's "top-6" "Bottom-6" team construction to do that evaluation. It's no coincidence that the one year happenstance forced him to do something else was the Jets had their best year.

 

[Imcanadianeh]

ANd you think 4 AHL games changed anything? Seriously? He was the same player in preseason as he was the 76 regular season games he played. Everyone with a little could see the strengths and weakness that existed (and to some extend still exist) in his game and that he needed to be in the NHL to continue to progress as a player.

PM was simply too focused on his 1990's "top-6" "Bottom-6" team construction to do that evaluation. It's no coincidence that the one year happenstance forced him to do something else was the Jets had their best year.

Well now you’re trying to move the goal posts and argue something else because your claim that I was pushing a false narrative wasn’t backed up by the stats.

I’m not saying the 4 AHL games changed him but Connor himself said that being sent back to the AHL and not making the Jets changed his attitude.

When I’m home later this evening and if I have the time I’ll look for the interview.

Back in 2019 Connor said something along the lines of he went into the 17-18 season with kind of a bad attitude, he figured coming off a good season with the moose he was guaranteed to make the team, play in the top six and on the PP. he said not making the team was a big eye opener and he didn’t think that would happen. In that same interview he said once he was with the team for an extended period of time he said he was amazed and shocked by how hard the Jets leaders (Wheeler, Scheifele and Buff) try in practice and much they dedicate to the game on and off the ice and figured because they were already established really good NHLers they wouldn’t need to put in that much effort.

 

[KingBogo]

We had some success in 2017-18 under Maurice, although we were heavily favored to beat Vegas and ended up losing out with 4 losses in a row to them.

Other than that, our playoff success under Maurice was pretty sparce. We only won 3 playoff series in all those Maurice years IIRC. We lost out of the playoffs by losing 4 straight games 3 out of 4 times we made the postseason with Maurice. It's not that easy to lose 4 straight post season games but our Maurice led team was good at it.

Not sure it matters much but the Jets weren’t heavily favoured to beat LV. Going into game 1 Winnipeg was 11-4 to win the cup and Vegas was 3-1 which is close to a coin flip. Almost equally as close Winnipeg was -140 and LV was -120 to Win their series. It was only Jets fans who thought we were heavily favoured.

 

[hockeyarena]

Not sure it matters much but the Jets weren’t heavily favoured to beat LV. Going into game 1 Winnipeg was 11-4 to win the cup and Vegas was 3-1 which is close to a coin flip. Almost equally as close Winnipeg was -140 and LV was -120 to Win their series. It was only Jets fans who thought we were heavily favoured.

And really no one in the world respected Vegas. None of us knew what they were. I remember thinking we should destroy an expansion team, only to watch reeves manhandle us.

 

[surixon]

i am on the fence with the idea of trading or re-signing helle... last 5 seasons he has 3 top-5 Vezina finishes, including a win. he will also be 31 years old and due for a large UFA contract. with his resume i think 9M is the minimum on a long-term deal, probably would want the large signing-bonuses as well like all the top UFA players.

do we give a 31 year old with one of the largest career per season workloads a large ufa deal at 31 YO? he often leads in shots and one of the top goalies in minutes played. i do think his style of play is less susceptible to injury though. does Chevy give him large Signing Bonuses like every top UFA gets?

i am not a goalie prospect expert... but do we have anyone with any semblance of 50-60 game starting ability at a solid sv%? obviously there's possibilities of trade or fa signing, but chances of chevy completing a deal

imo this org has basically goalie PTSD of the pre-helle era that they're going to do everything they can to keep him around. helle has said as long as this team is not rebuilding he'll stick around, so hope they're a cup contending team by the time his contract is up for negotiation.


ok then look at his pts%, PO GP/Wins vs coaches of similar games coached. that'd be a fair evaluation taking into account rate of wins or losses vs gp. like you said, a f***ton of games coach will lead to a f***ton of Ws (or Ls).... funny how you specifically mention this only when some1 brought up his Ls but no problem omitting it when talking about his Ws

of 1000 games coached (31 coaches)
29th in pts%
26th in PO games coached, 28th in Wins, 29th in W%.

Well now you’re trying to move the goal posts and argue something else because your claim that I was pushing a false narrative wasn’t backed up by the stats.

I’m not saying the 4 AHL games changed him but Connor himself said that being sent back to the AHL and not making the Jets changed his attitude.

When I’m home later this evening and if I have the time I’ll look for the interview.

Back in 2019 Connor said something along the lines of he went into the 17-18 season with kind of a bad attitude, he figured coming off a good season with the moose he was guaranteed to make the team, play in the top six and on the PP. he said not making the team was a big eye opener and he didn’t think that would happen. In that same interview he said once he was with the team for an extended period of time he said he was amazed and shocked by how hard the Jets leaders (Wheeler, Scheifele and Buff) try in practice and much they dedicate to the game on and off the ice and figured because they were already established really good NHLers they wouldn’t need to put in that much effort.

That is how I remember it as well. We are not privy to what happens off the ice as well to see signs of his attitude. I remember him being underwhelming in that preseason and sending him down was more to send a message then them thinking he needed more seasoning. They clearly didn't think he needed it given how quick he was called up. Sometimes you need to really shock these players to get the to open their eyes. I think Wheeler did a good job helping to establish a Hugh work rate in Kyle.

 

[KingBogo]

That is how I remember it as well. We are not privy to what happens off the ice as well to see signs of his attitude. I remember him being underwhelming in that preseason and sending him down was more to send a message then them thinking he needed more seasoning. They clearly didn't think he needed it given how quick he was called up. Sometimes you need to really shock these players to get the to open their eyes. I think Wheeler did a good job helping to establish a Hugh work rate in Kyle.

I don’t really get the issue. The player in retrospect believed it was the right move and that it helped him take a big step forward. He is now a star in the league and holds no grudge. Not sure why anyone would hold on to this as something to get upset about. I’m glad that there are still posters that call this crap out.