General coaching talk thread

[TehDoak]

Of the coaches available, Alan Vignault is the one that I like currently. Good track record with highly skilled players, two finals appearances, just has the resume you want

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Man, it sucks that we've all turned on Granato. I'm there with you guys, but I actually had hope for him, and I do think he genuinely cares. It just sucks this is where we ended up with him, but it was time to move on in December. Honestly, it may have saved the season.

My hope, and I've said it a few times before, is the team does enough losing to close out the year that the choice is easy for Adams. Donny needs to completely lose the locker-room. Unfortunately, the locker-room seems to love Granato like a fun uncle.

If he's still around next year, then it's on Adams for not having the spine to make the hard choice and break the vibes because 'the vibes' are clearly not progressing this team in the right direction.

Granato played his role well in keeping morale high during some tough times and progressing the offensive output for some young players. Now, they need to turn the page to a new chapter. A leader who gets these guys committed to playing 200ft hockey would be a great start.

I like Don as a person, I have nothing but respect for him, and I understand why the guys might love him. But he is in way over his head, he can’t coach at this level, and it’s just become more and more painfully obvious with every passing segment of seasons.

I had hope as well, and again, I like the guy. Unfortunately we don’t need likability, we need coaching.

 

[joshjull]

I would be surprised if going from a franchise that hasn't made the playoffs in over a decade to a legit SC contender and recent champions did not lead a player to be impressed by the way their new team does things.

Adams seems to think that Granato has it in him to coach the Sabres to the playoffs. There are legit reasons to have serious doubts about that given how this season has played out and the regression in performance by so many of the core guys on the roster.

If there are not major changes to the coaching staff this offseason, I will not be hopeful about the Sabres making the playoffs next season.

I was more wondering what @OkimLom thinks it says about Mitts. Seems like a pretty normal reaction but he sees something in those comments that reflects on Mitts. What that is I don’t know.

 

[OkimLom]

I was more wondering what @OkimLom thinks it says about Mitts. Seems like a pretty normal reaction but he sees something in those comments that reflects on Mitts. What that is I don’t know.

To me, it says he wasn't working as hard as he is capable of. There are things as a player that he can and can't control. Effort is one of those things he can control, and even if the team's practices or games aren't pushed to full effort, there's nothing stopping him from going full effort himself.

Maybe the most recent game put me in a mood/mindset of being overly critical, maybe it's justified or not, but just my 2 cents after hearing that sort of comment.

 

[toddkaz]

To me, it says he wasn't working as hard as he is capable of. There are things as a player that he can and can't control. Effort is one of those things he can control, and even if the team's practices or games aren't pushed to full effort, there's nothing stopping him from going full effort himself.

Maybe the most recent game put me in a mood/mindset of being overly critical, maybe it's justified or not, but just my 2 cents after hearing that sort of comment.

Yikes, this is a bad take. Blaming the players for poorly run practices and the coach not pushing them. Its the coaches job, one of his main responsibilities.
Players should not be out there doing there own thing instead of listening to the coach. You come to the rink for a practice you expect the coach to do whats best for the team. What is even the purpose of a coach then? When players come in from the off season some are in shape and some are not. Its the coach's job to get them into shape. That is what Spring training is for in baseball, training camp in football. Sure it would be nice to have every athlete keep themselves in tiptop form but its the role of the coach's to get them their.

 

[OkimLom]

Yikes, this is a bad take. Blaming the players for poorly run practices and the coach not pushing them. Its the coaches job, one of his main responsibilities.

Not blaming him for the poorly ran practices, but each and every player is responsible for the effort they put on the ice. If they are requiring the coaches to "motivate them" to practice or play harder, then I think they have the wrong attribute that I want in a Sabres player. The primary person responsible for pushing the players, are themselves.

I will say, my take may have come across harshly against Mittelstadt, but when we have seen games where the players have coasted, or not played hard, or did things on the ice where you question if they quit or done enough, and then one of those players says they never sweated that much in a morning practice, something that THEY can control themselves, it's just something I to commented on.

This isn't to waive any responsibility of the organization as it seems very obvious that they just aren't good enough of an organization in everything they do.

 

[Ace]

He outworked most of the team every night in game and rounded out his game completely over the last year to the point a contender saw him as a long term major piece of their success.

I don’t know what you’ve been watching. At all. But go ahead and keep doubling down

 

[sabremike]

He outworked most of the team every night in game and rounded out his game completely over the last year to the point a contender saw him as a long term major piece of their success.

I don’t know what you’ve been watching. At all. But go ahead and keep doubling down

People would rather rant about treating the symptom and not the cause.

 

[toddkaz]

Not blaming him for the poorly ran practices, but each and every player is responsible for the effort they put on the ice. If they are requiring the coaches to "motivate them" to practice or play harder, then I think they have the wrong attribute that I want in a Sabres player. The primary person responsible for pushing the players, are themselves.

I will say, my take may have come across harshly against Mittelstadt, but when we have seen games where the players have coasted, or not played hard, or did things on the ice where you question if they quit or done enough, and then one of those players says they never sweated that much in a morning practice, something that THEY can control themselves, it's just something I to commented on.

This isn't to waive any responsibility of the organization as it seems very obvious that they just aren't good enough of an organization in everything they do.

I mean that goes without saying players should stay in shape but you are taking a quote out of context and then trying to jam into into another context.

He was talking about how the practice was run and you are trying to spin it.

 

[sabremike]

Of the coaches available, Alan Vignault is the one that I like currently. Good track record with highly skilled players, two finals appearances, just has the resume you want

He'd be an Abysmal level bad sucker bet, his entire success as a coach was built on literal hall of fame goaltenders. If we had prime Hasek then he could be an option.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Not blaming him for the poorly ran practices, but each and every player is responsible for the effort they put on the ice. If they are requiring the coaches to "motivate them" to practice or play harder, then I think they have the wrong attribute that I want in a Sabres player. The primary person responsible for pushing the players, are themselves.

I will say, my take may have come across harshly against Mittelstadt, but when we have seen games where the players have coasted, or not played hard, or did things on the ice where you question if they quit or done enough, and then one of those players says they never sweated that much in a morning practice, something that THEY can control themselves, it's just something I to commented on.

This isn't to waive any responsibility of the organization as it seems very obvious that they just aren't good enough of an organization in everything they do.

From the Okposo trade thread -

- “He's a veteran guy that wants to fit in and understands the team dynamic," Panthers coach Paul Maurice said. "We wanted to get him in some games, get him a little bit comfortable. I think we practice a little differently here. There's just a lot of new for him here. So [we've been] discussing some of the new, some quickness that can come back into his game, some physicality that could come back into his game”


Another contender is trying to whip another ex-Sabre into shape. The team doesn't practice hard enough, and has come out unprepared for most 1st periods this season. It's a team and coaching issue, not Mittelstadt...not Okposo (although he's a vet and was the C...so maybe).

 

[Jim Bob]

From the Okposo trade thread -

- “He's a veteran guy that wants to fit in and understands the team dynamic," Panthers coach Paul Maurice said. "We wanted to get him in some games, get him a little bit comfortable. I think we practice a little differently here. There's just a lot of new for him here. So [we've been] discussing some of the new, some quickness that can come back into his game, some physicality that could come back into his game”


Another contender is trying to whip another ex-Sabre into shape. The team doesn't practice hard enough, and has come out unprepared for most 1st periods this season. It's a team and coaching issue, not Mittelstadt...not Okposo (although he's a vet and was the C...so maybe).

If conditioning is an issue, I would point to the S&C staff more than the hockey coaching staff. The Sabres have gone all in on sports science on the S&C front. Perhaps they are overvaluing rest and recovery and not doing enough in-season conditioning work.

On-ice practices should be more about skills and tactics and less about conditioning, IMO. Especially in-season in the NHL.

 

[sabremike]

A guy who demands they play on the right side of the puck. A guy who installs SOME sort of structure. A guy who demands they pay a physical price. A guy who can draw defense out of 1-way guys. A guy who can get the expensive players to engage enough to win.

They need a lot of guys.

The year Dahlin came into the league I saw a team with far worse talent that was everything you just described and then some and who lost their best player for nothing finish 5th best in the league that season. We don't even need Trotz level coaching, just getting an average solid pro instead of the worst coach in the league would make so much difference.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If conditioning is an issue, I would point to the S&C staff more than the hockey coaching staff. The Sabres have gone all in on sports science on the S&C front. Perhaps they are overvaluing rest and recovery and not doing enough in-season conditioning work.

On-ice practices should be more about skills and tactics and less about conditioning, IMO. Especially in-season in the NHL.

Practice doesn't have to be about conditioning. It should be fast in order to get to or stay at game speed. They have almost always looked slow starting games. They aren't ready because they don't practice at a high/fast level.

 

[Ygo]

To me, it says he wasn't working as hard as he is capable of. There are things as a player that he can and can't control. Effort is one of those things he can control, and even if the team's practices or games aren't pushed to full effort, there's nothing stopping him from going full effort himself.

Maybe the most recent game put me in a mood/mindset of being overly critical, maybe it's justified or not, but just my 2 cents after hearing that sort of comment.

This is an interesting perspective. The missing component might be as simple as, Mitts worked himself hard, but the pace of the practice was slow. (ie, lots of waiting, more of a walkthrough speed employed by the coaching). Another element to consider is whether their sports science team has pointed to benefits of a less strenuous approach to practice. Who knows... no one would care if they were good. So I will lean towards what the good team does I guess.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Not surprised.

Paul Maurice said something similar about Okposo not being used to the way Florida practices.

This has been an ongoing theme for years now.

 

[Jim Bob]

Practice doesn't have to be about conditioning. It should be fast in order to get to or stay at game speed. They have almost always looked slow starting games. They aren't ready because they don't practice at a high/fast level.

In my experience coaching and playing sports, tempo in practice has never affected how teams start games.

It does affect how players play in general and how they finish games. But, getting off to strong starts is 90% mentality and focus from the jump and not related at all to tempo in practice.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

2 trades, 2 comments indirectly saying Buffalo practices soft and slow. It’s hockey, come on, that’s as damning as you’ll get.

 

[Jim Bob]

Not surprised.

Paul Maurice said something similar about Okposo not being used to the way Florida practices.

This has been an ongoing theme for years now.

It is likely due to Granato employing more teaching/skills-based practices with a small area games focus when compared to your average pro practice.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

I was more wondering what @OkimLom thinks it says about Mitts. Seems like a pretty normal reaction but he sees something in those comments that reflects on Mitts. What that is I don’t know.

What would Mitts really know about how a top flight NHL franchise is run? He's never been part of one.

Only a few players on the team have.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

In my experience coaching and playing sports, tempo in practice has never affected how teams start games.

It does affect how players play in general and how they finish games. But, getting off to strong starts is 90% mentality and focus from the jump and not related at all to tempo in practice.

I still subscribe to the old coaching book titled Practice Perfect.

You don't accept sloppy practice habits. they become sloppy game habits.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

It is likely due to Granato employing more teaching/skills-based practices with a small area games focus when compared to your average pro practice.

Small Area Games work. (At least at the levels I've coached.)

But they have to have a purpose and replicate real game conditions. (Close in work on the boards, rapid transitions.)

Despite what USA Hockey says, you don't employ them mainly for fun or to keep players from being bored and inactive standing around in line drills.

 

[sabremike]

It is likely due to Granato employing more teaching/skills-based practices with a small area games focus when compared to your average pro practice.

Worth noting this is why Bob Bradley failed so badly as a club manager in Europe: his practices were designed for high school and college kids (which allowed for great success in early MLS) but were totally ridiculous for top level professionals who laughed at what a joke it was.

 

[sabregoat]

How many goals have been overturned because of offsides where the puck handler decides to "make a move" right before the blue line. This was talked about last year but still is happening. Are the coaches allowing this in practice?

 

[joshjull]

To me, it says he wasn't working as hard as he is capable of. There are things as a player that he can and can't control. Effort is one of those things he can control, and even if the team's practices or games aren't pushed to full effort, there's nothing stopping him from going full effort himself.

Maybe the most recent game put me in a mood/mindset of being overly critical, maybe it's justified or not, but just my 2 cents after hearing that sort of comment.

I figured this was the bad take you were going for. But I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt to clarify.

Btw he didn’t say it’s the hardest he worked. He said it’s the most he’s sweated in a pre-game warm up. Which in and of itself doesn’t mean much since teams handle them differently. But later he was praising how fast the Avs practice and play and how excited he is to be a part of it. Everything he said was in the context of how the Avs as a team do things. It’s not about him as an individual.