GDT-Devils vs Islanders, Barclays Center, 7:30 PM

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

Haha. I'm just the opposite. I don't miss Shea Stadium one bit. I always felt it was dark and dingy. CitField is a palace compared to Shea and one of my favorite ballparks in MLB (I've been to 12 so far).

I get why so many people are euphoric about Barclays. But I've always been a "go to the game, watch the game, go back home" fan. I just need a decent seat at an affordable price. Sadly, those days are ending as arenas like Barclays are the trend in pro sports. And the commute to Brooklyn still sucks.

Totally fair. Nothing about the new stadiums is meant to be fan friendly — it's all about maximizing luxury opportunities. Although I do think that some fans are going to be surprised by just how many Isles fans there are who have an easier time getting to the Barclays Center either from work or home than NVMC.

 

[bigd]

To me, the evaluation is where someone lands on his expectation. Pulock looked sharp on coverage, but not so sharp on defensive zone passes. It is standard stuff for a guy who hasn't yet played pro hockey. And Pulock looked comfortable on the PP, which is a need for us. None of us expected him to look NHL-ready at any aspect of his game so the fact that he showed some sharp play means he exceeded our expectations.

Strait looked bad at the only thing he's good at. That means he failed to meet expectations.

Ledzep has it right here.

I've got it from a good source today, I can't reveal, that Strait has had a very good camp. And from the games I've watched so far I thought he's played well so I don't know what you are looking for when you're watching him. I'll take the word of my source over your evaluation. So unless he tanks or gets injured over the next week I see him in the starting line up.

 

[InformTheMasses]

I've got it from a good source today, I can't reveal, that Strait has had a very good camp. And from the games I've watched so far I thought he's played well so I don't know what you are looking for when you're watching him. I'll take the word of my source over your evaluation. So unless he tanks or gets injured over the next week I see him in the starting line up.

In the game I saw Strait play, his gaps were poor. He also had a terrible percentage of zone entries allowed. Also his clearing ability (getting the puck to neutral zone under control) was bad too. These attributes are paramount to puck possession enthusiasts.

 

[bigd]

In the game I saw Strait play, his gaps were poor. He also had a terrible percentage of zone entries allowed. Also his clearing ability (getting the puck to neutral zone under control) was bad too. These attributes are paramount to puck possession enthusiasts.

Well I guess he will be the new Amac this year. Loved by his coaches but hated by puck possession enthusiastic fans then next season he will leave to sign somewhere else for more money.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

In the game I saw Strait play, his gaps were poor. He also had a terrible percentage of zone entries allowed. Also his clearing ability (getting the puck to neutral zone under control) was bad too. These attributes are paramount to puck possession enthusiasts.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Well I guess he will be the new Amac this year. Loved by his coaches but hated by puck possession enthusiastic fans then next season he will leave to sign somewhere else for more money.

...are you saying that you think Andrew MacDonald is a valuable player?

 

[bigd]

...are you saying that you think Andrew MacDonald is a valuable player?

No Philly said it, 5 mil a year

 

[BroadwayJay*]

No Philly said it, 5 mil a year

Yeah, Philly did.

They also said Ilya Bryzgalov was a franchise goalie.

I just want to pin you down on this though, are you saying Andrew MacDonald is a valuable player?

 

[bigd]

Yeah, Philly did.

They also said Ilya Bryzgalov was a franchise goalie.

I just want to pin you down on this though, are you saying Andrew MacDonald is a valuable player?

I don't think he's worth 5 mil but yes I do think he's a valuable D-man. They put that value on him not me.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

I don't think he's worth 5 mil but yes I do think he's a valuable D-man. They put that value on him not me.

Well, I'm just asking if you put value on him and I take it the answer is yes.

I do not put much value on him.

I also don't put much stock in the Flyers' decisionmaking.

 

[bigd]

Well, I'm just asking if you put value on him and I take it the answer is yes.

I do not put much value on him.

I also don't put much stock in the Flyers' decisionmaking.

But your value of him has no bearing on him being a valuable defenseman. That's already been determined by his contract. The stat is staring you right in the face, 5 mil a year for 5 years. I know how you like stats and that's one you can't ignore. That's how a player validates his value. If you where a valuable lawyer you would be making 5 mil a year.

 

[ledzep1212]

But your value of him has no bearing on him being a valuable defenseman. That's already been determined by his contract. The stat is staring you right in the face, 5 mil a year for 5 years. I know how you like stats and that's one you can't ignore. That's how a player validates his value. If you where a valuable lawyer you would be making 5 mil a year.

So nobody in the history of hockey has given a player with little to no value a big money contract?

 

[BroadwayJay*]

But your value of him has no bearing on him being a valuable defenseman. That's already been determined by his contract. The stat is staring you right in the face, 5 mil a year for 5 years. I know how you like stats and that's one you can't ignore. That's how a player validates his value. If you where a valuable lawyer you would be making 5 mil a year.

Two problems here:

1) Some great lawyers make no money at all and work mostly pro-bono or as public defenders. Money is not necessarily a validation.

2) Lots of people are inappropriately overpaid and the fact that ONE team saw fit to pay someone an absurd amount of money is no indication that they deserve it.

I would never ignore the fact that the Flyers outrageously overpaid Andy MacDonald. In fact, I think trading a second round pick was an outrageous overpayment for a player who is objectively more a detriment than a boon.

I just don't think how much someone gets paid has as much of a bearing on their actual value on-ice. See Tavares v. Clarkson. See also in re: Ville Leino; In re: Ilya Bryzgalov.

I prefer a measurement of what someone does on the ice to help lead to wins, not how many zeros are in their paychecks.

 

[NYI365]

I think I'd take Martinek-Carkner third pairing over Brennan-Strait. Brennan does not deserve to make the team. His decision-making and skating are very slow. He had a horrible first period at the Coliseum on Wednesday but picked it up after that, and last night he really didn't impress me either.

I would also love to get rid of Bailey and Donovan. I have no idea what we're going to do for out third pairing, but Garth needs to pull some strings quickly because we can't start the season with what we "have."

One more note: I liked what I saw from Pulock. I was surprised that he stood out as much as he did. He looked better last night than Reinhart did on Wednesday, granted it's just one preseason game.

To add to that, interesting quotes from Greg Cronin on the Butch Goring show today. Around the 60 min mark he gets into the fact that the Isles coaching staff is really looking to reward young players that can help the team win as soon as opening night comes around. Highlights Pulock specifically, seems like he may even have the inside track on Reinhart.

http://hockeythisweek.com/the-butch-goring-show-09-29-14/

 

[bigd]

Two problems here:

1) Some great lawyers make no money at all and work mostly pro-bono or as public defenders. Money is not necessarily a validation.

2) Lots of people are inappropriately overpaid and the fact that ONE team saw fit to pay someone an absurd amount of money is no indication that they deserve it.

I would never ignore the fact that the Flyers outrageously overpaid Andy MacDonald. In fact, I think trading a second round pick was an outrageous overpayment for a player who is objectively more a detriment than a boon.

I just don't think how much someone gets paid has as much of a bearing on their actual value on-ice. See Tavares v. Clarkson. See also in re: Ville Leino; In re: Ilya Bryzgalov.

I prefer a measurement of what someone does on the ice to help lead to wins, not how many zeros are in their paychecks.

Money makes the world go around. The value of an NHL team is based on how much money that team makes. The value of a company is based on how much money that company makes. The value of a player to a particular team is based on how much money they are willing to pay him. What value you prefer to place on him means nothing to anyone but you!

 

[13th Floor]

To add to that, interesting quotes from Greg Cronin on the Butch Goring show today. Around the 60 min mark he gets into the fact that the Isles coaching staff is really looking to reward young players that can help the team win as soon as opening night comes around. Highlights Pulock specifically, seems like he may even have the inside track on Reinhart.

http://hockeythisweek.com/the-butch-goring-show-09-29-14/

Thanks for posting.

This really shouldn't be a novel concept. Play the best players.

 

[Bones45]

Two problems here:

1) Some great lawyers make no money at all and work mostly pro-bono or as public defenders. Money is not necessarily a validation.

2) Lots of people are inappropriately overpaid and the fact that ONE team saw fit to pay someone an absurd amount of money is no indication that they deserve it.

I would never ignore the fact that the Flyers outrageously overpaid Andy MacDonald. In fact, I think trading a second round pick was an outrageous overpayment for a player who is objectively more a detriment than a boon.

I just don't think how much someone gets paid has as much of a bearing on their actual value on-ice. See Tavares v. Clarkson. See also in re: Ville Leino; In re: Ilya Bryzgalov.

I prefer a measurement of what someone does on the ice to help lead to wins, not how many zeros are in their paychecks.

Didn't the Rangers pay Bobby Holik something like $8mil a while back?

What dummies.

 

[LetsGoIslanders]

I ran on to a packed elevator in the 200s, trying to get to Atlantic Terminal as quickly as possible.

The elevator stopped and opened its doors at the suite level. I was face-to-face with Eric Cairns and Brent Thompson with the entire Islanders management team behind them (Snow, Holewa, Gwydir, etc.). They threw their hands up as to how they were supposed to get downstairs.

This would've been a better story if I had some drinks in me at the time.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Money makes the world go around. The value of an NHL team is based on how much money that team makes. The value of a company is based on how much money that company makes. The value of a player to a particular team is based on how much money they are willing to pay him. What value you prefer to place on him means nothing to anyone but you!

No, gravity makes the world go around.

The FAIR MARKET VALUE, as in what it would cost to buy a company, is based on how much money that company makes.

The value of a player to a particular team is not at all necessarily based on how much money they pay him. The Islanders don't pay John Tavares very much, by comparison. Do you believe David Clarkson has as much value to the Leafs as Tavares has to the Isles?

I find it hard to believe you actually believe this nonsense. Are you just trying to disagree with me?

You can't possibly think that player value is directly tied to how much they're paid. Do players on ELC have no value? It is ridiculous!

 

[BroadwayJay*]

Didn't the Rangers pay Bobby Holik something like $8mil a while back?

What dummies.

And, according to my esteemed colleague, that shows why Bobby Holik is twice as valuable as Travis Hamonic.

 

[MatthewBarnabysTears]

No, gravity makes the world go around.

The FAIR MARKET VALUE, as in what it would cost to buy a company, is based on how much money that company makes.

The value of a player to a particular team is not at all necessarily based on how much money they pay him. The Islanders don't pay John Tavares very much, by comparison. Do you believe David Clarkson has as much value to the Leafs as Tavares has to the Isles?

I find it hard to believe you actually believe this nonsense. Are you just trying to disagree with me?

You can't possibly think that player value is directly tied to how much they're paid. Do players on ELC have no value? It is ridiculous!

He did say "willing to pay." Which is pretty much the classic economics take on value — for example, even though his contract pays him only $5.5 million, the Isles might theoretically be willing to pay Tavares well over $10 million a season. What prevents players from being paid their actual value is the CBA — and the trend across the board in sports leagues has been for owners to re-write CBAs such that players (particularly elite players) get paid a smaller percentage of their actual value. For example, an NBA star makes about $10 million per year less than he did a decade ago, which is incredible when you consider (1) that inflation is a thing that exists and (2) that NBA franchise values and league revenues have skyrocketed since then. If every player entered the league as a truly unrestricted free agent, Tavares might have been one of the highest paid players in the league from the start of his career.

Whether or not you think that's a good or bad thing is a separate question.

 

[Bones45]

I ran on to a packed elevator in the 200s, trying to get to Atlantic Terminal as quickly as possible.

The elevator stopped and opened its doors at the suite level. I was face-to-face with Eric Cairns and Brent Thompson with the entire Islanders management team behind them (Snow, Holewa, Gwydir, etc.). They threw their hands up as to how they were supposed to get downstairs.

This would've been a better story if I had some drinks in me at the time.

Funny you should mention this. I had a similar issue but didn't mention it here (you know how critical some of those HFguys can be).

Was trying to get downstairs to leave the building and couldn't find the stairs! Ended up asking someone who worked there, who pointed me to some closed fire doors, or an elevator.

I'm sure there is a large space with double escalators, somewhere, but it wasn't obvious to newcomers.

Good to see that that I had the same problem as Isles mgmt. Ill expect a job offer shortly.

 

[bigd]

No, gravity makes the world go around.

The FAIR MARKET VALUE, as in what it would cost to buy a company, is based on how much money that company makes.

The value of a player to a particular team is not at all necessarily based on how much money they pay him. The Islanders don't pay John Tavares very much, by comparison. Do you believe David Clarkson has as much value to the Leafs as Tavares has to the Isles?

I find it hard to believe you actually believe this nonsense. Are you just trying to disagree with me?

You can't possibly think that player value is directly tied to how much they're paid. Do players on ELC have no value? It is ridiculous!

ECL's don't count because those are regulated by the CBA. As a free agent you are put out for bid. Your value is determined by what a team is willing to pay for your services, PERIOD! Whether you agree with what they are getting paid doesn't really factor into it. Are there players out there being overpaid or under paid? Of course there are but most of those contracts are governed by the CBA.
The Toronto Maple leafs are a poor NHL team by performance but they are the most valuable team in terms of dollars in the NHL.
I'm a real estate agent and people always tell me how much their house is worth when I do an appraisal but the reality is that your house is only worth what some else is willing to pay for it. It doesn't really matter if you paid more for it or you have more money than that into it. It's a simple stat that no one can argue with.

 

[BroadwayJay*]

He did say "willing to pay." Which is pretty much the classic economics take on value — for example, even though his contract pays him only $5.5 million, the Isles might theoretically be willing to pay Tavares well over $10 million a season. What prevents players from being paid their actual value is the CBA — and the trend across the board in sports leagues has been for owners to re-write CBAs such that players (particularly elite players) get paid a smaller percentage of their actual value. For example, an NBA star makes about $10 million per year less than he did a decade ago, which is incredible when you consider (1) that inflation is a thing that exists and (2) that NBA franchise values and league revenues have skyrocketed since then. If every player entered the league as a truly unrestricted free agent, Tavares might have been one of the highest paid players in the league from the start of his career.

Whether or not you think that's a good or bad thing is a separate question.

The issue is what a player's value to his team is. My argument is that the player's value is NOT necessarily determined by how much he is paid. ELCs are a perfect example of that. Those player's are paid a low amount (proscribed by the CBA) and therefore it does not adequately reflect their value to the team. That is my precise argument.

He's saying Andy MacDonald is a good player because the Flyers paid him a lot of money. That just isn't true. The only part that is true is that the Flyers paid him a lot of money.

 

[24diving]

ECL's don't count because those are regulated by the CBA. As a free agent you are put out for bid. Your value is determined by what a team is willing to pay for your services, PERIOD! Whether you agree with what they are getting paid doesn't really factor into it. Are there players out there being overpaid or under paid? Of course there are but most of those contracts are governed by the CBA.
The Toronto Maple leafs are a poor NHL team by performance but they are the most valuable team in terms of dollars in the NHL.
I'm a real estate agent and people always tell me how much their house is worth when I do an appraisal but the reality is that your house is only worth what some else is willing to pay for it. It doesn't really matter if you paid more for it or you have more money than that into it. It's a simple stat that no one can argue with.

No one can argue that he is getting paid that much, but we can argue if his on ice performance is worthy of being paid that much. If i paid $2 million for my house, sure I set the value at $2 million -- but I can guarantee you my house is not worthy of a $2 million price tag. (although a guy can dream)