GDT: GDT #6 Ottawa Senators vs New York Islanders | October 26th | 7:30 PM | F/3-2 W

[Doshell Propivo]

I felt mist of the penalties were just incidental goofiness. Players skating face first into sticks or tripping themselves, stepping on sticks. It happens on occasion, seemed to happen all at once yesterday. Penalties stood out, because of what happened previous games.

Regarding Barzal, he is an elite skater on par with McDavid, Hughes et al. He is consistently one of the best puck trans porters in the NHL. He is a great playmaker. He plays consistently plays energy and effort (albeit on offense more than defense).

Barzal is not an elite/complete player like McDavid/Hughes. He does not approach the game with purpose… get the puck to net to get a goal. Rather he’s more about establishing offensive zone possession to then work towards getting a goal.

As a professional, there are things he needs to improve. But I have accepted that he’s always going to leave you wanting more. Much like Alexei Kovalev back in the day.

What I push back on, is the notion that he can’t be part of a winning solution. He can be both infuriating and part of a team that competes.

He's the best player on the team that doesn't play goalie.

 

[Rehabguy]

Saw some good things last night. Nice to get the two points (not sure why some see it as a "pathetic win" but whatever). Continue to be encouraged by the play of the 1st line. I agree with those who say that Barzal will never be a true goal scorer/sniper. Not his skillset. His assists to goal ration will always hover around 2:1. But I do think he needs to drive to the net more and take more shots. And he seems to be doing that so far this season. This also leads to him drawing penalties. Maybe this will curb his whining to the refs...

Speaking of refs, after 5 of 6 calls went against the Isles (all technically legit calls BTW) the crowd (and I imagine this board) went nuts. Couldn't help but thinking back to the conversation here about NHL refereeing and how everything must be called by the book. All the time. No exceptions. Refs "managing the game" is stupid. I guess the true sentiment is, "call everything by the book unless it is lopsided against the Islanders. Then it is not fair." lol

Yes HE needs to get back to playing this kind of hockey. Generate speed from the back end, enter the zone with speed and attack the net. If he has a shot go for it if not hold on to the puck use his skill and find the open man who is in a better position to score. Let him dispsy doodle and stop and make changes in direction. Chances are he will draw more penalties playing his style of hockey rather than playing like a pawn in a broken system.

He's actually a better skater now that he's got his man strength but his game has been stymied by the Trotz/Lambert era of hockey the moment they took over the team.

Having Barzal playing like this when he takes his few shifts every game will help the team more than hurt it. Who could argue otherwise? He was NOT the reason we lost games in the 2017/2018 season. He was the bright spot if anything on his way to the Calder. He was a threat EVERY and I mean EVERY shift he was on the ice. We don't see that anymore because Trotz and Lambert did not allow him to skate like this. It was too "risky" Nonsense! He has the skill. Let him use it dammit!

Let Barzal be Barzal. The rest of the team can do whatever Lambert wants them to do but for god sakes unleash this kid!

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Yes HE needs to get back to playing this kind of hockey. Generate speed from the back end, enter the zone with speed and attack the net. If he has a shot go for it if not hold on to the puck use his skill and find the open man who is in a better position to score. Let him dispsy doodle and stop and make changes in direction. Chances are he will draw more penalties playing his style of hockey rather than playing like a pawn in a broken system.

He's actually a better skater now that he's got his man strength but his game has been stymied by the Trotz/Lambert era of hockey the moment they took over the team.

Having Barzal playing like this when he takes his few shifts every game will help the team more than hurt it. Who could argue otherwise? He was NOT the reason we lost games in the 2017/2018 season. He was the bright spot if anything on his way to the Calder. He was a threat EVERY and I mean EVERY shift he was on the ice. We don't see that anymore because Trotz and Lambert did not allow him to skate like this. It was too "risky" Nonsense! He has the skill. Let him use it dammit!

Let Barzal be Barzal. The rest of the team can do whatever Lambert wants them to do but for god sakes unleash this kid!

Please stop.

 

[Lights911]

It's his eighth season in the league, this is who he is.

 

[Rehabguy]

It's his eighth season in the league, this is who he is.

The video clearly shows who he is. I don't understand what's so hard to understand. What more evidence would one need? That wasn't a mirage, that's actually how he can play the game. I'm not making this shit up. It's there in full technicolor!

The fact that Lambert does not have him playing this game is reason enough for me to fire him. It's just completely negligent.

I can't possibly be the only one in this fanbase who sees this.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

I don't understand what's so hard to understand.

Mmmm Hmmm.

 

[Throttle]

He's the best player on the team that doesn't play goalie.

Yeah, fans think that. GMs and coach’s go with Nelson.

 

[CupHolders]

He's the best player on the team that doesn't play goalie.

Well… I would say it’s more accurate to say skilled. Performance output would suggest Brock Nelson the past few years has been better.

Do I think Barzal fully actualizing the upper range of his abilities makes him the best player on the team? Yes. But he has to actually do that.

Again, I don’t think he can ever reach the level of a 1A superstar, even though he has the skill set to do so. But it’s conceivable for him to be a tier below… 1B. Moreover, that can also be enough for the Isles to succeed competitively.

Currently he’s going around as a 2a.

 

[PJGooch]

The video clearly shows who he is. I don't understand what's so hard to understand. What more evidence would one need? That wasn't a mirage, that's actually how he can play the game. I'm not making this shit up. It's there in full technicolor!

The fact that Lambert does not have him playing this game is reason enough for me to fire him. It's just completely negligent.

I can't possibly be the only one in this fanbase who sees this.

Barzal has had hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of opportunities to demonstrate that he will do all of those things — take the puck to the net, attack the net, take his shot if it's there, yada yada — and he has simply not done it. He has many gifts and is insanely talented, but he repeatedly turns away from A+ goal opportunities and will only shoot the puck as a last resort, often to the detriment of the team's offense.

The idea that he is forbidden to try to score goals by Trotz and now Lambert, that one day the coach will say "OK, you're unshackled now" and he will suddenly pump out points like Jack Hughes or MacDavid, is one of the dumbest claims that consistently floats around this board. Why would the coaching staff insist on having the most dynamic offensive player not try to score? But others can? Zack Parise outscored Barzal last year (goals, not points). So did Palmieri, in fewer games. Hudson Fasching, for God's sake, was right on his heels in fewer games.

 

[CupHolders]

Yeah, fans think that. GMs and coach’s go with Nelson.

Meh… I think I said it better. Unless the audience and setting is on a social media site.

As I turn around and finally realize my setting…

 

[Doshell Propivo]

Barzal has had hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of opportunities to demonstrate that he will do all of those things — take the puck to the net, attack the net, take his shot if it's there, yada yada — and he has simply not done it. He has many gifts and is insanely talented, but he repeatedly turns away from A+ goal opportunities and will only shoot the puck as a last resort, often to the detriment of the team's offense.

The idea that he is forbidden to try to score goals by Trotz and now Lambert, that one day the coach will say "OK, you're unshackled now" and he will suddenly pump out points like Jack Hughes or MacDavid, is one of the dumbest claims that consistently floats around this board. Why would the coaching staff insist on having the most dynamic offensive player not try to score? But others can? Zack Parise outscored Barzal last year (goals, not points). So did Palmieri, in fewer games. Hudson Fasching, for God's sake, was right on his heels in fewer games.

Yup.

 

[Rehabguy]

Barzal has had hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of opportunities to demonstrate that he will do all of those things — take the puck to the net, attack the net, take his shot if it's there, yada yada — and he has simply not done it. He has many gifts and is insanely talented, but he repeatedly turns away from A+ goal opportunities and will only shoot the puck as a last resort, often to the detriment of the team's offense.

The idea that he is forbidden to try to score goals by Trotz and now Lambert, that one day the coach will say "OK, you're unshackled now" and he will suddenly pump out points like Jack Hughes or MacDavid, is one of the dumbest claims that consistently floats around this board. Why would the coaching staff insist on having the most dynamic offensive player not try to score? But others can? Zack Parise outscored Barzal last year (goals, not points). So did Palmieri, in fewer games. Hudson Fasching, for God's sake, was right on his heels in fewer games.

I not asking him to do anything new. I know he's not McDavid. I just want him to play the same way he played his rookie season.

It is clear to me that he does not enter the zone with any speed from the backend and tries to make things happen as he did in this video. He needs to lead the rush more as he did in this video. There's no reason to believe that Barzal has lost a step at 26 years of age. I just want him to play the game the same way he played the game when he entered the league and more importantly be allowed to do so.

Can we all agree that he's not playing the same way as he did in this video? Grant me that. (please)

 

[Throttle]

Meh… I think I said it better. Unless the audience and setting is on a social media site.

As I turn around and finally realize my setting…

Absolutely you did. Great post.

I not asking him to do anything new. I know he's not McDavid. I just want him to play the same way he played his rookie season.

It is clear to me that he does not enter the zone with any speed from the backend and tries to make things happen as he did in this video. He needs to lead the rush more as he did in this video. There's no reason to believe that Barzal has lost a step at 26 years of age. I just want him to play the game the same way he played the game when he entered the league and more importantly be allowed to do so.

Can we all agree that he's not playing the same way as he did in this video? Grant me that. (please)

You do realize that at that time there were more traffic cones disguised as players? He WAS unique, now, a whole generation of players are playing faster and better than him. THEY are way more talented and execute better.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

You do realize that at that time there were more traffic cones disguised as players? He WAS unique, now, a whole generation of players are playing faster and better than him. THEY are way more talented and execute better.

Is this true? Not trying to be argumentative but this is an interesting take. Has the game really changed that significantly in 7 years? Perhaps it has.

 

[PK Cronin]

hate to sound like a homer but most of the pims on the isles were terrible calls , especially the early one on Nelson and the tripping call on Pelley where the Sens player literally skated into his stick himself lol

take the 2 points

The Nelson one was borderline but the Pelech one is a penalty all day, every day. It doesn't matter if a player skates over your stick or not, it's still a trip if they go down.

After the first game I posted our D's ice time and noted that Aho had a very low total. It's not improving. Last night Dobson, Pelech and Pulock had around 27 mins TOI, Romanov a little over 20 mins, Aho 10 and change, and Bolduc around 5 mins. I realize Mayfield's out, but D miss games sometimes. They really need to either build trust in Aho/Bolduc or look for help elsewhere (BP or trade). When Trotz was here, it was rare for a D to have much over 20 mins in a game. He spread ice time around.

Also, I watch this team and think "not well-coached". If things don't improve, Lane might be gone by Thanksgiving (U.S.).

I haven't checked but I'm wondering how much of Aho's low ice time was due to the special teams parade. I'm certainly not hoping he plays more but it could explain some of that disparity. If Lambert has lost trust with him and Bolduc already this team is sunk.

Nice to see Dobson jumping up on the play. THIS is what they need to do more of. They need to get Mayfield back ASAP to clear the front of the net. This has been their achilles heel the past few games.

They must've changed systems between games.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

They must've changed systems between games.

They hired Doug "Run n Gun" Weight as a consultant.

 

[PK Cronin]

Is this true? Not trying to be argumentative but this is an interesting take. Has the game really changed that significantly in 7 years? Perhaps it has.

There's no objective way to tell but as a viewer it's pretty obvious. When Barzal was a rookie guys like Tavares were still stars in the league and there weren't many in the McDavid mold. Since then the game has gotten significantly faster with these young skill guys who are super quick and doing things we haven't really seen before (at least consistently) have taken over. In Tavares' case he went from being a premiere NHL talent competing for the Hart to the fourth best forward on his own team in the blink of an eye.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

There's no objective way to tell but as a viewer it's pretty obvious. When Barzal was a rookie guys like Tavares were still stars in the league and there weren't many in the McDavid mold. Since then the game has gotten significantly faster with these young skill guys who are super quick and doing things we haven't really seen before (at least consistently) have taken over. In Tavares' case he went from being a premiere NHL talent competing for the Hart to the fourth best forward on his own team in the blink of an eye.

No doubt the game has changed but I just thought it's been happening longer than just 7 years or so. As far as Tavares goes, he immediately became the 3rd or 4th best forward on his team when he signed with Toronto. I'd guess that he would've been a Hart contender for another 3 years or so had he stayed with NYI. And his skating was always average, at best. In some ways he was always a throw-back type of player.

 

[Rehabguy]

There's no objective way to tell but as a viewer it's pretty obvious. When Barzal was a rookie guys like Tavares were still stars in the league and there weren't many in the McDavid mold. Since then the game has gotten significantly faster with these young skill guys who are super quick and doing things we haven't really seen before (at least consistently) have taken over. In Tavares' case he went from being a premiere NHL talent competing for the Hart to the fourth best forward on his own team in the blink of an eye.

Didn't Barzal beat McDavid in the fastest skater competition less than 3 years ago? So unless all the up and coming players are on 'roids I don't see how we can say the younger players have surpassed Barzal skating abilities. Oh, but I remember you're the "objective" data guy. Andrei Svechnikov won last years fastest skater event at 13.699. Barzal won it in 2020 at 13.715. That's a difference of .016 seconds. If .016 seconds is the difference between then and now how can you say the game has gotten "significantly faster".

(you can all applaud now)

There's only one person holding Barzal back right now and his name rhymes with "lame".

 

[Osakahaus]

The lack of discipline in taking penalties will cost this team dear unless Lambert can get a grip on them.

Those penalties also come when they're on the power play also. Its so frustrating!

 

[PJGooch]

There's only one person holding Barzal back right now and his name rhymes with "lame".

How is he holding him back? I'm genuinely curious. I'm glad someone can finally explain it in detail.

 

[CupHolders]

Didn't Barzal beat McDavid in the fastest skater competition less than 3 years ago? So unless all the up and coming players are on 'roids I don't see how we can say the younger players have surpassed Barzal skating abilities.

(you can all applaud now)

There's only one person holding Barzal back right now and his name rhymes with "lame".

Mat Barzalame?

Honestly, I'm about the closest that one could call a Barzal apologist. Although, I personally dispute that, as I think I focus more on keeping an open mind when it comes to player expectations... But I digress.

Lane Lambert or Barry Trotz is not the significant reason why Barzal isn't producing more. It's his approach. Someone said it best years ago. He plays the game like a point guard looking to slow the offense down to a half court setup. Which isn't necessarily bad, but he would do himself and team some favors by occasionally:

1) driving to the net himself
2) hitting a three pointer
3) passing off sooner, instead of waiting for the perfect alley-oop dunk that the defense is playing against

This would give himself some time and space to operate in.

 

[MJF]

Is this true? Not trying to be argumentative but this is an interesting take. Has the game really changed that significantly in 7 years? Perhaps it has.

I think there are more teams with better skaters now than there were 7 years ago. It's no longer a grind it out league. Even the teams 7 years ago that played a more physical style that we tried to build to beat, the Bruins and Capitals for example, always had a HOF talent or two at the top of their roster. That kept them a notch above us.

Now teams that were plodders--the Kings, Flames, Senators, Sabres, Wild, are teams that we have trouble skating with. They have changed. Add to that the Devils have found their direction, the hurricanes have always skated, so have the Rags and Pens. The Isles really haven't changed their style much.

More teams are building towards quick puck moving, quick skating, than teams trying to copycat the Islanders limited success.

 

[Osakahaus]

We are complaining about Barzal when he's got 5 points in 6 games. This isn't the worst thing about the roster. FFS be more upset at Nelson.

 

[CupHolders]

We are complaining about Barzal when he's got 5 points in 6 games. This isn't the worst thing about the roster. FFS be more upset at Nelson.

For only having 4 points in 6 games?

Is that the cutoff, from doing well vs organizing a crowd sourced billboard exit sign?