Salary Cap: Gary Roberts and the Incredible Shrinking Kessel

[Rocket of Russia]

There's nothing wrong with having a high-maintenance superstar, as long as you admit he's high-maintenance and go out of the way to make him feel comfortable. He'll reward you in the end.

We've committed a LOT to Kessel, it'd be assinine to NOT go out of the way to make him feel comfortable, imo.

Could you define "going out of the way" or "high maintenance"? I have seen nothing that seemed particularly unusual, but maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention.

Sorry guys - I could not have been being more sarcastic calling him high mainenance. I prefer the dancing troll to because I hate

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I would be a little surprised, yes.

Why would it surprise you? I don't really understand why it would be a surprise for this club to play both Kunitz and Dupuis in a top six role, considering how much they've done that in the past even with other options?

Maybe it's semantics over the word "surprise", so I can understand you not thinking it's their first choice, but to be surprised if they do?

And no, even though I highly respect Bomboulie and he probably does have a good handle on the team, he can't possibly know the line combinations. MJ himself doesn't know them yet.

No matter if you give them the benefit of the doubt or not, I see little point in getting outraged about hypothetical scenarios. If it really comes to that, sure, go nuts.

Outraged is a strong word. Annoyed at the prospect is more like it. And it's summer and we're speculating on potential line combinations. Why can't I express my opinion if the quoted line combination comes to fruition? It's no different than when this board was discussing signing Franson and if someone said they'd be pissed if they did. Just because it hadn't happened at that point, doesn't mean someone can't get upset at even the suggestion of it happening.

In any case, this organization has burned all its good will with me. Until it actually shows by its actions that Kunitz and Dupuis won't both be in the top six, then I will continue to believe they will, even if it's based on nothing more than a reporter who follows the team's "thoughts" on what he believes the line combinations will be. Kind of like a thief who is caught stealing an item from a store every single week. I'll assume he'll steal again this coming week until the week actually passes without him stealing anything. I'm not just going to take his word for it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kunitz isn't a must trade candidate. If you can't get something that helps you, then don't trade him. Unless they move Scuderi, they don't have an opening on D (as in they can't fit another D on the roster) and they should only move Kunitz if it would be helping our defense. Kunitz is still good in a 3rd line role and should be acceptable as a 3rd wheel with Kessel and Crosby (assuming he'll be tried there first), he's not a cap dump.

 

[Riptide]

Kunitz isn't a must trade candidate. If you can't get something that helps you, then don't trade him. Unless they move Scuderi, they don't have an opening on D (as in they can't fit another D on the roster) and they should only move Kunitz if it would be helping our defense. Kunitz is still good in a 3rd line role and should be acceptable as a 3rd wheel with Kessel and Crosby (assuming he'll be tried there first), he's not a cap dump.

No, but that doesn't mean you let him play out his contract. If you have a chance to move him in a decent trade that saves us cap space, you do it. With Kunitz (despite my comment on the last page), you're not saying cap dump, but you do have to recognize that he isn't getting any younger and has a 3.85m cap hit that goes past this season. And if there's any chance we want to sign Perron two things have to happen. First off, we need to play him in the top 6 and secondly we need the cap space to sign him - and that's going to be hard to find unless we can move one of Kunitz, Scuderi or Dupuis. Now which of those three do you think is the most 'moveable'?

 

[Rocket of Russia]

Change how? The only thing that makes him tough to play with--that he processes the game too friggin fast--is the same thing that makes him the best player of his generation. You find guys who can think and react fast, you don't tell him to do things slower to prop up some guy who can't.

Sure, that might mean a plugger like Hilbert will work better than a skill guy like Christensen every now and again, but that's tough **** for Christensen.

Moot point anyway. If Kessel struggles with 87 for some reason, our fallback is Hornqvist, who we already know doesn't.

You're kind of blowing one comment out of proportion. Sure, who are any of us to question this generation's most spectacular talent? That's an easy position to defend.

But Sid could stand to have some puck patience "added" to his game; a little Ryan Getzlaf if you will. No, that doesn't mean refrain from using his breakneck speed to torch a flat-footed defenseman. It means don't always move at breakneck speed just because you can - always doing anything can become predictable.

I lost count of how many posts last year stated, "when was the last time you saw Sid beat someone 1 on 1?"

Throw in some speed changes every now and then, dictate the pace, but more importantly change it. Don't let this generation's Chris Therriens find an ability to skate as fast as they can backwards and dart in front of your space (obstruct) as you try the same speed move you did the last 6 chances you had - go warp speed at a defenseman, throw the puck at his feet, and try to bull your way through him.

When your alternative is 2015 Chris Kunitz 20 feet behind the play then sure, have at it and see what happens, but now that it's Phil Kessel IN the play, yeah, Sid should absolutely consider adapting his game to make the team less predictable, and ultimately better. To your point, Sid is so talented that him "adapting" or "changing" isn't going to suddenly be unsuccessful - he's a generational talent.

 

[clefty]

This club.

They bring in Perron to add skill to the top six. They draft Bennett to add skill to the top six. They sign Plotnikov to add some grit and maybe some chemistry to a certain Russian, and what happens with all these options available to them? They always default to Dupuis and Kunitz in the top six.

Will we EVER be rid of these two as top six options? Christ, I'm surprised they don't have Scuderi and Lovejoy penciled in as the 2nd pairing, with Dumoulin and Cole getting third pairing minutes and Pouliot down in WBS.

Okay, JB has done these organizational depth charts every year, and the lineup on opening night has been different...pretty much every year.

I mean, he himself calls it a fictional depth chart in the very same blog post.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I think some people get hung up on how much some other people want him to change his game. Tweaks? Sure, every player can and should be tweaking their game. Major foundational changes? No, shut up. If you're talking major changes we may as well have a trade thread and Michael isn't here to lead it.

I lost count of how many posts last year stated, "when was the last time you saw Sid beat someone 1 on 1?"

Yeah, but the complaining about Crosby was hilariously OTT last season and I swear to god some posters copy other ones in the GDTs so that gets diminished. I find the board to have that tendency with a lot of things, you see it with Crosby a lot, Perron right now and then there's the ones like Fleury (still, even when he's not bad!Fleury there's some, but 3 years of meltdowns was warranted) and Letang (trade, even when he's great and the d depth is gone, he had that god awful season but that went OTT too). I'd argue that we've even seen a bit of it with Maatta in the 'what have you done for me lately' sense. It's freaking out over a good player when there really isn't a need for that level or raving about the wrong thing, because there's legitimate criticism and then what this devolves into.

Malkin might be the exception but there's that weird martyr, victim, infantilization trend with him. It's just creepy.

 

[djt153]

I don't think kessel is high maintenance at all, I just think the organization is going out of its way to make sure he knows he's wanted here and doesn't really need to do much else besides play and be happy. just my feeling, no real substance to it.

 

[SEALBound]

I would LOVE to have a third line of Plotnikov-Bonino-Perron...but NOT at the expense of Kunitz and Dupuis in the Top 6. Yikes.

Dupuis's health is a big question mark, Kunitz is on the decline. Injuries happen. There's a decent chance that those two could be out of the lineup as quickly as they were in. With that, Kunitz starts the year ok...he just steadily declines into the bowels of hell. The key would be to switch him out before he become detrimental to the line. With that, MJ has to be willing to do it. No one should be afforded the luxury of always being penciled in to the top 6. We are too deep for that anymore.

 

[JTG]

Kessel looks like the kid in high school that wore the same Billabong hoodie every day and smoked a ton of dope.

I'm not a huge Tlusty fan, and never have been, but if we could get him on a cheap 2 year deal - can't do better than that.

 

[JTG]

I would LOVE to have a third line of Plotnikov-Bonino-Perron...but NOT at the expense of Kunitz and Dupuis in the Top 6. Yikes.

Dupuis's health is a big question mark, Kunitz is on the decline. Injuries happen. There's a decent chance that those two could be out of the lineup as quickly as they were in. With that, Kunitz starts the year ok...he just steadily declines into the bowels of hell. The key would be to switch him out before he become detrimental to the line. With that, MJ has to be willing to do it. No one should be afforded the luxury of always being penciled in to the top 6. We are too deep for that anymore.

I think you'll see a bottom 6 - not 3rd or 4th line. You'll see 6 guys with just about the same amount of mins. I also think you'll see the top 6 guys getting less than 20 mins a game, which is exactly what you want. Keep all the boys fresh.

Hopefully they can do something like that on defense too. Sadly, I think it's unavoidable playing Maatta and Letang 25+ a night.

 

[JTG]

Sarge delivering season tickets this season - weird thing for a guy who wouldn't be kept around after training camp.

 

[SEALBound]

I think you'll see a bottom 6 - not 3rd or 4th line. You'll see 6 guys with just about the same amount of mins. I also think you'll see the top 6 guys getting less than 20 mins a game, which is exactly what you want. Keep all the boys fresh.

Hopefully they can do something like that on defense too. Sadly, I think it's unavoidable playing Maatta and Letang 25+ a night.

I believes that's an issue though - Sid and Geno need to be playing 22-25 min/night. Kessel 20+ as well. We need to play our stars.

 

[mpp9]

Sarge delivering season tickets this season - weird thing for a guy who wouldn't be kept around after training camp.

Yeah, the vibe I got from interviews I've read and seen, he's going to have to have a terrible camp not to get a contract. Even if he's our #7 for the season, I think they want him around, period.

Problem is, we already have a far more expensive #7, and his name's Rob.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I believes that's an issue though - Sid and Geno need to be playing 22-25 min/night. Kessel 20+ as well. We need to play our stars.

No they don't, the Pens have great depth and it would be extremely wasteful to play Sid and Geno that much when their depth isn't an issue. It would just burn them out for the playoffs.

 

[BHD]

Sarge should just repel himself down from the rafters whenever there is a power play.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Bombulie seems to think our lineup for the start of next season will be:

Dupuis-Crosby-Kessel
Kunitz-Malkin-Honqvist
Plotnikov-Bonino-Perron
Wilson-Cullen-Bennett
Farnham, Fehr on IR

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Pouliot
Dumoulin-Lovejoy
Scuderi

I really hope that isn't the case, there's so much here I disagree with. Perron is a much better LW than RW, it makes no sense to put him on RW while Plotnikov (who has primarily been a RWer) plays LW. Pouliot is primarily a LD and Cole is very comfortable as a RD, so that pair should be swapped too. Only one of Kunitz or Dupuis should be in the top-6, but preferably neither would be there. I just don't like it at all.

There's one very good reason why I don't have an issue with that lineup. Scuds isn't playing.

That said, the forwards should be:

Perron-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Honqvist
Kunitz-Bonino-Dupuis
Adams-Cullen-Bennett

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, the vibe I got from interviews I've read and seen, he's going to have to have a terrible camp not to get a contract. Even if he's our #7 for the season, I think they want him around, period.

Problem is, we already have a far more expensive #7, and his name's Rob.

Definitely could see him just retire and take a position with the franchise if he doesn't get a contract.

 

[Jacob]

They even had Steve Oleksy delivering season tickets

 

[Sam Spade]

Would you be surprised if those ended up being the lines? I mean, it's not like we haven't seen this organization do things like that before. And wouldn't said writer have a good handle on the pulse of what this team is thinking? It's not like it's Rossi.

I don't think they should get the benefit of the doubt. This organization is in "show me first" territory before I'll believe they won't do something stupid like have both Kunitz and Dupuis in the top six.

I wouldnt be shocked at all, but I will eat kale if Scuderi is not top six on opening night. No way, no how he is in the press box.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Yeah, the vibe I got from interviews I've read and seen, he's going to have to have a terrible camp not to get a contract. Even if he's our #7 for the season, I think they want him around, period.

Problem is, we already have a far more expensive #7, and his name's Rob.

I think it's fairly clear that the org is looking to get rid of Rob though, and for a #7, I think Gonch is a pretty solid candidate, especially at the league minimum that he'll probably get.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think it's fairly clear that the org is looking to get rid of Rob though, and for a #7, I think Gonch is a pretty solid candidate, especially at the league minimum that he'll probably get.

I disagree, although I am aware of the Leafs trade thing. Johnston played Scuderi in a ton of situations, high risk situations, all season. Injured players or not, Scuderi got important ice time last season so unless his decline is extreme this camp, he is playing.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I believes that's an issue though - Sid and Geno need to be playing 22-25 min/night. Kessel 20+ as well. We need to play our stars.

Anyways.

I don't mind Crosby and Malkin playing some games 22 minutes when we are 1 goal behind. Play them a lot.

But if it's a game and we are facing Buffalo and up by 3. Let Crosby and Malkin play 16.

Even if it's a game against Chicago and up 2.

I'm all for giving the bottom 6 some extra time. We don't need to score a million goals and run the stars to the ground.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kessel looks like the kid in high school that wore the same Billabong hoodie every day and smoked a ton of dope.

I'm not a huge Tlusty fan, and never have been, but if we could get him on a cheap 2 year deal - can't do better than that.

And play him where? Are there any spots even available for him?

He will likely bolt to the KHL and make more money where and fade into obscurity as the dong pic taker.

I've heard it curves the same way as his blade (e5).

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Anyways.

I don't mind Crosby and Malkin playing some games 22 minutes when we are 1 goal behind. Play them a lot.

But if it's a game and we are facing Buffalo and up by 3. Let Crosby and Malkin play 16.

Even if it's a game against Chicago and up 2.

I'm all for giving the bottom 6 some extra time. We don't need to score a million goals and run the stars to the ground.

There is more than enough depth on this team with forwards to pin a team into their own zone for extended periods, kind of like the 3 C model the Pens had with Sid-Geno-Gronk, but more this time.

I don't see a need to play Sid & Geno more, I'd say play them a little less because of the depth, it keeps them fresher and more potent later in the season. What good is depth if you don't use it to your advantage? The idea is to get depth so you don't need to rely solely on your 2 big lines only. It's how the better teams and coaches own everyone in the playoffs, they have more than 4 people to rely on. Pens have finally brought in a ton of depth, the goal is then to play Sid & Geno even more? Seems absurd as **** to me.

The goal isn't to load up on points during the season, it's to be healthy heading into the playoffs and not exhausted.