Post-Game Talk: Game V Pens win: Geno is so score

[pistolpete11]

Even Mike Sullivan isn't going back to Jarry right away after all THAT.

But I also think there is no chance they waive him and possibly don't even look to move him.

The appeal of a "starting" goaltender even if it's in name/rep only takes a strong hold of a lot of teams/GMs. Ned and Blom aren't "starters."

Is Georgiev a "starter"? At least they could walk away after the season.

 

[Empoleon8771]

That was back when Sully was a rockstar and I almost had a full head of hair!

Its been a looong time man, and Jarry still being here, snd being in the pickle he is in, shows why your faith is misplaced.

That said, I also think Blom starts against the Canes.

He literally benched Jarry last year to ride with Nedjelkovic for the last 20 games of the season.

Jarry is still here because Dubas gave him a bad contract, not because of Sullivan.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Is Georgiev a "starter"? At least they could walk away after the season.

I think he would be looked at by Dubas/Sullivan as a low-rent one but yes. He has two seasons of 60+ games on a contender.

And he PKs!

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Georgiev a "starter"? At least they could walk away after the season.

He's Jarry if Jarry was only on a 1 year deal.

I do wonder if the Penguins could do something like Jarry+ for Georgiev just to get out of Jarry's deal. The Penguins would be adding due to the term left on Jarry's deal, but that would be similar to the Perron for Hagelin deal back in the day.

 

[Malkinstheman]

I'm open to take on pretty much any player that adds up to Graves + Jarry's contracts. Huberdeau or Nurse are far more useful than the current 10m in dead cap they have

 

[Tender Rip]

He literally benched Jarry last year to ride with Nedjelkovic for the last 20 games of the season.

Jarry is still here because Dubas gave him a bad contract, not because of Sullivan.

Are you suggesting that Sully after 8+ years here isn’t being consulted on a re-signing like that? That Jarry would have been re-signed if Sully was against it? For real?
Do you think Dubas is Rutherford or something?

Are you suggesting that it was not an absolute no-brainer going with the guy winning rather than the guy losing last year?
To the point that he overplayed Ned so much down the stretch he ended up looking shite also?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you suggesting that Sully after 8+ years here isn’t being consulted on a re-signing like that? That Jarry would have been re-signed if Sully was against it? For real?
Do you think Dubas is Rutherford or something?

It's bizarre to blame Sullivan for contract/management decisions when he's the coach and not the GM. Dubas is the one that gave Jarry that huge deal. Sullivan could have supported it but Sullivan didn't hand out the deal.

Are you suggesting that it was not an absolute no-brainer going with the guy winning rather than the guy losing last year?
To the point that he overplayed Ned so much down the stretch he ended up looking shite also?

I don't know what you're trying to argue here? The original point was that Sullivan rides the hot hand when it comes to goalies and has done that consistently. He did it last year with playing Nedjelkovic because the team was winning with him in net. He's likely going to do the same thing this year with Blomqvist, because he has a track record of just running with the hot goalie.

 

[BillyOcean]

I also wonder where this team would be if Rutherford were still here

 

[Gurglesons]

I also wonder where this team would be if Rutherford were still here

I mean, this team is where they are largely because of Rutherford.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I also wonder where this team would be if Rutherford were still here

Probably significantly different but not any better.

The team becoming what it is now was inevitable because the core is simply old. The only way to possibly have gone down a different path was to blow up the team in the 2018-2020 window.

 

[BillyOcean]

I mean, this team is where they are largely because of Rutherford.

You mean you didnt like trading first rounders+ for middle six forwards with no discernable elite traits?

 

[spcastlemagic]

I haven’t been this excited the morning after a game in a long time. I really don’t think any other fan base, in any sport, has been blessed the way we have been with Sid and Geno spending their entire careers together. All time legend superstars who don’t have any petty ego things going on, all time talents who are all time beauties who actually like each other. Nobody does heroics like these guys.

 

[SEALBound]

Jarry collapsed under the pressure of returning crowds after the Covid year with empty arenas. He couldn't handle the atmosphere. That's pretty much it.
He deserves blame for that series, yes. All of it? No way.

Our offense scored 16 goals in 6 games. If I recall that was good for 10th out of the 16 teams in round 1 in G/PG.
Crosby, Guentzel, McCann, Blueger, Tanev, Matheson all sucked in that series but get no heat from the fans.

50 shots in game 5 in Pitt, no? Many of the HDC variety. 2 goals? Everyone gets a pass for that because Jarry choked in OT?
It shouldn't have even gone to OT. It was a league #2 offense. Stop shooting at the goalie's pads.

This series, this game 5, this choke?



And your post is asking why guys like Sid, Jake, and McCann got a pass while everyone jumped on Jarry? Are you serious?

The other stats:

Ned - 2.97 GAA and .902 Sv%
Jarry - 2.91 GAA and .903 Sv%

I'll repeat what I said multiple times because it's, again, very relevant here:

Jarry is at a point where SV% and GAA do not matter anymore. It's irrelevant and even more irrelevant now with the team in the position that it is. If you're 8-2 but your goalie is .900 sv% and 4.00 GAA, then there might be cause for concern come playoff time. We are merely looking to get into that WC2 slot. The W matters. I don't give a shit if they post .850s game in and game out, but if they come out with the win, that's all that matters this year. Jarry needs to be putting the team in a position to win every single game. He is not doing that. At the end of the day, SV% and GAA are irrelevant if your goalie is either making a pass in the video above or letting in an incredibly soft goal to start the game. Even in the three games he's been in, there are shots that your goalie needs to save in order to win a game that Jarry isn't making.

We no longer care about goalie vs goalie stats. If Neds posts a .875% but makes a key save late in the third during a tie game (or up by 1), I don't care about the the sv% afterwards if we get the W. Similarly, if Jarry posts a 1.000 but lets in a softy at the end and we lose 1-0, I'm not going to care if his sv% was 0.9999% if we have a loss.

This is a VERY hard position for Jarry to play himself out of. It's not the forest anymore with him, it's the tree(s).

Main board always finding ways to shit on Sid & Genos accomplishments. God I wish I could have seen them in their prime in this open era of hockey.

06-07 Sid with a Rantanan+Nuke/Landy, Hyman+Drai, or Guentzel level linemate in 2024...woof, good luck league.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Personally, I'm fine with running both Ned and Blom, and when things go south (like I know it will) they will then turn to the actual issue at hand "Team Defense" more prominently. Or, they'll double down and say they weren't as good and they never really trusted them at all.

This shit all played out the same with Murray, he was God until he had to deal with the team in heavy high danger turnover mode. They haven't been out of that mode in almost a decade.

So it doesn't seem to matter the goalie.... Then?

I'd say it had to do a bit with letting Martin/Gonch go, and maybe a good bit of who they keep adding to the ranks, and definitely the older statesman not having what they did in earlier days.

Also, that change in goalie equipment and higher goals per. game this era is showing.

I mean, the league went from a select one/few to a select 10/12

In 2015/16 there was a single 100 point scorer, same with 2016/17 and move onto 2021/22 and it exploded. In 2015/16 there wasn't a single player with points over 90 except Kane at 106, and now it is 17 players over 90+ with 9 of those players being over 100 points. We've seen it effect even the best of goalies who were thought of as the top of the mountain.

We saw what team defense could do for goalies in Boston and inflate Ullmark and Swayman.

That 2021/22 season just so happens to be the last playoff games this team has played with their hopes riding on Domingue's shoulders.

So, raise your hopes on a certain goalie, I assure you this team will break their will.

 

[pistolpete11]

He's Jarry if Jarry was only on a 1 year deal.

I do wonder if the Penguins could do something like Jarry+ for Georgiev just to get out of Jarry's deal. The Penguins would be adding due to the term left on Jarry's deal, but that would be similar to the Perron for Hagelin deal back in the day.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Just don't know what the sweetener could be. Can't imagine Puusy would move the needle. Can't imagine the Pens being willing to trade Eller unless they are out of the playoffs. Acciari is even more cap for them to take on. Don't think they'd be giving up picks either.

 

[spcastlemagic]

Probably significantly different but not any better.

The team becoming what it is now was inevitable because the core is simply old. The only way to possibly have gone down a different path was to blow up the team in the 2018-2020 window.

Blowing the team up the wrong way is what happened - he lost his mind watching Tom Wilson be a bully (in a playoff round win) so he traded for Reaves so he could watch Tom Wilson be a bully in a playoff round loss. Brassard was so non-consequential I have to google “2018 penguins trade bad” to remember his name. There were better moves to be made to compete in 2018 and do the three-peat. The moves just got more desperate and weirder from there…

 

[Empoleon8771]

Blowing the team up the wrong way is what happened - he lost his mind watching Tom Wilson be a bully (in a playoff round win) so he traded for Reaves so he could watch Tom Wilson be a bully in a playoff round loss. Brassard was so non-consequential I have to google “2018 penguins trade bad” to remember his name. There were better moves to be made to compete in 2018 and do the three-peat. The moves just got more desperate and weirder from there…

Nah the only way this team would be different now is if they would have injected a ton of young guys into their prospect pool right after those cup wins. JR gave up a ton of assets to add guys like Brassard, Zucker and such that basically prohibited them from having the prospect pool needed to be good right now.

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. Just don't know what the sweetener could be. Can't imagine Puusy would move the needle. Can't imagine the Pens being willing to trade Eller unless they are out of the playoffs. Acciari is even more cap for them to take on. Don't think they'd be giving up picks either.

I wonder if Poulin could be enticing for them but I'm skeptical he's a piece that moves the needle enough either.

 

[SEALBound]

You mean you didnt like trading first rounders+ for middle six forwards with no discernable elite traits?

I liked the GM who would bring in Phil Kessel and trade out roster players that weren't working including but not limited to such classics as: Sutter for Bonino, Perron for Hagelin, Scuderi for Daley, and Jooris for McKegg.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... they traded Kessel (which they needed to) and replaced him with largely a bunch of middle six bleh. And in doing so blew through like multiple first round picks and other futures. Which is funny because the team really broke loose when they finally acquired that other top tier forward in Kessel years earlier and they just... didn't learn that lesson, I guess.

 

[SEALBound]

Nah the only way this team would be different now is if they would have injected a ton of young guys into their prospect pool right after those cup wins. JR gave up a ton of assets to add guys like Brassard, Zucker and such that basically prohibited them from having the prospect pool needed to be good right now.


I wonder if Poulin could be enticing for them but I'm skeptical he's a piece that moves the needle enough either.

If the idea is "if they hadn't sent those assets out then, they could send them out NOW" then I might agree.

Not one prospect we traded away nor any draft pick (means the numbered pick plus 5-ish picks after) has amounted to anything that would change this roster in any meaningful way.

Now, if they got significantly worse after the cup wins in order to get higher 1st round talent, maybe but that's obviously not the direction the organization was going to go (nor should it have been in reality).

I mean... they traded Kessel (which they needed to) and replaced him with largely a bunch of middle six bleh. And in doing so blew through like multiple first round picks and other futures. Which is funny because the team really broke loose when they finally acquired that other top tier forward in Kessel years earlier and they just... didn't learn that lesson, I guess.

Kessel was a more unique situation though that doesn't come up all that often. Only thing I can think of is if they dumped Kessel earlier and got Stone from Ottawa. Stone went at the 2019 TDL. Kessel went Summer of 2019.

I think the only possible similar situation at the moment is Huberdeau.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Kessel was a more unique situation though that doesn't come up all that often. Only thing I can think of is if they dumped Kessel earlier and got Stone from Ottawa. Stone went at the 2019 TDL. Kessel went Summer of 2019.

I think the only possible similar situation at the moment is Huberdeau.

I tend to think that the way in which they have built the top six post-Kessel is very intentional but I could be wrong. I know it's not as easy as just snapping your fingers when it comes to bringing in another high impact forward. But I think in the intervening years since they traded Phil SOMETHING would have come up they could have pulled the trigger on though I couldn't sit here and list specific targets year to year or anything.

 

[SEALBound]

I tend to think that the way in which they have built the top six post-Kessel is very intentional but I could be wrong. I know it's not as easy as just snapping your fingers when it comes to bringing in another high impact forward. But I think in the intervening years since they traded Phil SOMETHING would have come up they could have pulled the trigger on though I couldn't sit here and list specific targets year to year or anything.

Fair. I'm not sure they thought they needed an ultra high end forward though. I think they saw the importance of depth after 2016.

You see Sid creating a lethal line with Jake and Rust who are on cheap deals...why mess with it? Malkin could have used someone after Kessel left but it's no like Malkin+Kessel was going that well anyway. Certainly Chucky didn't help but once COVID shaked out, Sid had Jake and Malkin got Zucker. Then it was up to the third pieces to be figured out.

The flat cap really hurt because it limited everyone's moves, including and especially our own.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Fair. I'm not sure they thought they needed an ultra high end forward though. I think they saw the importance of depth after 2016.

You see Sid creating a lethal line with Jake and Rust who are on cheap deals...why mess with it? Malkin could have used someone after Kessel left but it's no like Malkin+Kessel was going that well anyway. Certainly Chucky didn't help but once COVID shaked out, Sid had Jake and Malkin got Zucker. Then it was up to the third pieces to be figured out.

The flat cap really hurt because it limited everyone's moves, including and especially our own.

Fair point re: the cap. COVID f***ed a lot of stuff up for sure.

I thought the Zucker experiment was largely a failure but I get that people have a soft spot for him for some reason. I was looking over that "players who assisted on Geno goals" last night after the win. Zucker had 7 total. Woof. To give you an idea... Sykora had 19 in roughly the same amount of games.

Depth is all well and good. But the team needed to start thinking about their core aging after the B2B IMO.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

There were positives and negatives from that game last night, but the biggest positive was the play of Joel Blomqvist. He seems capable of making the big save at the right time. That is key for a team that can't play a lick of defense. Another positive is the fact we won a game with production from lines 2, 3, 4 and the PP. That won't happen every game but if it happens enough, we will make the playoffs.

On the negative side, our first line (plus first D pairing) is getting destroyed nightly. We can't have Crosby, Rust and Letang playing against five players and expect good results. Grz blows the zone more than Ron Jeremy used to blow his wad. What is with that??? He did it in Toronto on that three-on-zero goal against, and he did it again last night. I have said it before but Letang needs a stabilizing D partner. Letang cannot be the defensive conscience on his pairing. That won't work. And the less said about 72 the better.

The sad part about Blomqvist is that we will send him down to the minors once Ned is ready. You know it, I know it. Mike Sullivan hockey. Dubas won't admit his Jarry error by waiving him. But he should.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Crosby was only 29 when they won in 2017. They totally screwed up from that point on for 8 years.