GDT: GAME LXVII: Avs @ Canucks: 10PM (MT)

[GirardSpinorama]

One day people will realize it takes being willing to pay the price in order to get what you want.

I have a bunch of trades at the TDL to point to, what do you guys have?

I assume they just didn't want to play with Sakic?

Of course it does. But what we don't agree on is when we should pay that price and if we even WANT it in both the short and long term. What trades are you pointing to?

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

You mean no team was willing to trade with us?


Avs fans: We're sooooo lucky to have Mackinnon on the best contract in the NHL! He makes half of what he should make!

Also Avs fans: We didn't spend 6M this year? No big deal. Hope Kroenke uses it to upgrade his yatch.


That's one cup contending year where we didn't take advantage of Mack's contract. We had 4, now we have 3 shots left.

Who says the Avs can’t win the cup because they didn’t go wild at the deadline?

The season ain’t over yet and this group is fighting.

It’s not about the money, it’s about the assets. The Avs didn’t want to trade away high-end prospects/picks.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

You mean no team was willing to trade with us?


Avs fans: We're sooooo lucky to have Mackinnon on the best contract in the NHL! He makes half of what he should make!

Also Avs fans: We didn't spend 6M this year? No big deal. Hope Kroenke uses it to upgrade his yatch.


That's one cup contending year where we didn't take advantage of Mack's contract. We had 4, now we have 3 shots left.

But if you don't trade away your cubbard, you can continue to supply your team with players below their market value and that will help keep the team cap compliant beyond Mack's current contract.

 

[El Travo]

One day people will realize it takes being willing to pay the price in order to get what you want.

I have a bunch of trades at the TDL to point to, what do you guys have?

I assume they just didn't want to play with Sakic?

Sakic is clearly not willing to get bent over in a trade and has no problem running with the team he has. We just got super unlucky with injuries but we're still rolling. I'm glad he's not sending 1st round picks for 4th liners like Tampa Bay.

You mean no team was willing to trade with us?


Avs fans: We're sooooo lucky to have Mackinnon on the best contract in the NHL! He makes half of what he should make!

Also Avs fans: We didn't spend 6M this year? No big deal. Hope Kroenke uses it to upgrade his yatch.


That's one cup contending year where we didn't take advantage of Mack's contract. We had 4, now we have 3 shots left.

Okay, cool. Who do you suggest we overpay for just because we have cap space? Making trades for the sake of making trades is stupid.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Of course it does. But what we don't agree on is when we should pay that price and if we even WANT it in both the short and long term. What trades are you pointing to?

Litterally any of the prices paid for a 3C or a competent defender.

Tampa's moves might the be ones I wouldn't replicate. I'm not paying a 1st for any winger (or rental) regardless of their intangibles.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

You mean no team was willing to trade with us?


Avs fans: We're sooooo lucky to have Mackinnon on the best contract in the NHL! He makes half of what he should make!

Also Avs fans: We didn't spend 6M this year? No big deal. Hope Kroenke uses it to upgrade his yatch.


That's one cup contending year where we didn't take advantage of Mack's contract. We had 4, now we have 3 shots left.

We could literally be the best team in the western conference in like 6 hours and you already have us counted out for year 1 of those 4?

 

[CobraAcesS]

Sakic is clearly not willing to get bent over in a trade and has no problem running with the team he has. We just got super unlucky with injuries but we're still rolling. I'm glad he's not sending 1st round picks for 4th liners like Tampa Bay.



Okay, cool. Who do you suggest we overpay for just because we have cap space? Making trades for the sake of making trades is stupid.

I wanted a 3C before the preseason ended lol.

 

[El Travo]

I wanted a 3C before the preseason ended lol.

So the season is dead because we didn't get a 3C? Sakic is a terrible GM because he didn't cough up a bunch of assets for a depth player? We have a f*** tonne of depth, our problem is everyone got hurt at the same time. Yet, despite that we are still 2nd in the Central and a win away from being tied for 1st.

 

[Balthazar]

Sakic is clearly not willing to get bent over in a trade and has no problem running with the team he has. I'm glad he's not sending 1st round picks for 4th liners like Tampa Bay.



Okay, cool. Who do you suggest we overpay for just because we have cap space? Making trades for the sake of making trades is stupid.

It doesn't matter who. Anyone on an expiring contract who's an upgrade on Connauton or Dries. Don't care if he's overpaid. There's no such thing as too much depth going into the playoffs.

There's a reason why cup contending teams like Pens, Bruins, Bolts, Caps are finding ways to always add more depth and stretch every dollar from their cap space as much as they possibly can.

 

[CobraAcesS]

So the season is dead because we didn't get a 3C? Sakic is a terrible GM because he didn't cough up a bunch of assets for a depth player? We have a f*** tonne of depth, our problem is everyone got hurt at the same time. Yet, despite that we are still 2nd in the Central and a win away from being tied for 1st.

I didn't say the season is lost.

 

[El Travo]

It doesn't matter who. Anyone on an expiring contract who's an upgrade on Connauton or Dries. Don't care if he's overpaid. There's no such thing as too much depth going into the playoffs.

There's a reason why cup contending teams like Pens, Bruins, Bolts, Caps are finding ways to always add more depth and stretch every dollar from their cap space as much as they possibly can.

Those teams have also been contending for a lot longer than the Avs and have the assets that other teams are willing to take on. The Avs window just opened up and they just recently got a decent prospect pool that they can let marinate in the lower leagues. The only prospects that teams will look at seriously are Byram, Newhook, and Timmins, and I'm not willing to toss them away for depth. Sakic completely rebuilt the entire 2nd line in a single off season, but no, that's not enough for you? Seriously? This isn't some GM Mode where teams will bend over backwards and throw good players at us for cheap.

 

[Balthazar]

We could literally be the best team in the western conference in like 6 hours and you already have us counted out for year 1 of those 4?

No that's not what I said.

I said that for year 1, we didn't use the savings from Mack's contract to maximise our chances to win the Stanley Cup.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Litterally any of the prices paid for a 3C or a competent defender.

Tampa's moves might the be ones I wouldn't replicate. I'm not paying a 1st for any winger (or rental) regardless of their intangibles.

I think our defense was almost completely healthy during the TDL. Maybe we just get Alec Martinez and sit Z as insurance? As for 3C, i'm not in love with that Pageau trade but since he was signed for long term for 5 mill, I wouldn't have mind it. Its not a trade that moves the needle though, Islanders are 0-6 with Pageau or something. I also don't want to bring in 3-4 players because that disrupts chemistry.

All I'm saying is that the best available team isn't necessarily a cap out team. TDL rarely results in a trade that significantly help a team win the cup. I'm happy with the Avs roster (when healthy); would have liked to use our cap space to get more picks/prospects though.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Those teams have also been contending for a lot longer than the Avs and have the assets that other teams are willing to take on. The Avs window just opened up and they just recently got a decent prospect pool that they can let marinate in the lower leagues. The only prospects that teams will look at seriously are Byram, Newhook, and Timmins, and I'm not willing to toss them away for depth. Sakic completely rebuilt the entire 2nd line in a single off season, but no, that's not enough for you? Seriously? This isn't some GM Mode where teams will bend over backwards and throw good players at us for cheap.

You are still just flapping in the wind while I've got actual trades that I'd replicate in order to add to our depth and chances of a deeper run.

So is your opinion that we are perfect, and needed nothing? You all drinking the Sea water?

 

[Cousin Eddie]

No that's not what I said.

I said that for year 1, we didn't use the savings from Mack's contract to maximise our chances to win the Stanley Cup.

That’s fair but it’s a little early to tell if it was a need or not. We’ve won pretty much every game we played without Mikko/Kadri/Grubauer etc. if Sakic has enough depth internally to still get the job done when an abnormal amount of impact players get injured you can’t really blame him for keeping his picks/prospects instead of giving them up for pieces we may not need.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

It doesn't matter who. Anyone on an expiring contract who's an upgrade on Connauton or Dries. Don't care if he's overpaid. There's no such thing as too much depth going into the playoffs.

There's a reason why cup contending teams like Pens, Bruins, Bolts, Caps are finding ways to always add more depth and stretch every dollar from their cap space as much as they possibly can.

Nams is a big upgrade on Dries. He is overpaid and an expiring contract. Thats literally what you asked for, but we don't want 3-4 more of them. When we get Kadri/Rantanen/Burakovsky/Calvert (hell even Wilson) back, all of those pieces you acquired at the deadline would be in the AHL/sitting. Sakic essentially did what you asked, but he didn't OVER do it just because he can.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I think our defense was almost completely healthy during the TDL. Maybe we just get Alec Martinez and sit Z as insurance? As for 3C, i'm not in love with that Pageau trade but since he was signed for long term for 5 mill, I wouldn't have mind it. Its not a trade that moves the needle though, Islanders are 0-6 with Pageau or something. I also don't want to bring in 3-4 players because that disrupts chemistry.

All I'm saying is that the best available team isn't necessarily a cap out team. TDL rarely results in a trade that significantly help a team win the cup. I'm happy with the Avs roster (when healthy); would have liked to use our cap space to get more picks/prospects though.

The Islanders were faltering before the TDL if I remember correctly. We ran them over. It was like two different teams in our games against them.

I'm not really trying to come at this as much from a cap space/use angle, as I am filling needs for the roster, and not things I didn't think we needed even when healthy. I do get the sentiment regarding not using the cap, because you waste that extra space from Mack's deal, but I just don't need to use that approach for the argument.

It also has its flaws because Sakic did try to acquire players. He just failed to do so. Its obvious Sakic still seems to be targeting a winger over a center too. Which I disagree with.

 

[CobraAcesS]

That’s fair but it’s a little early to tell if it was a need or not. We’ve won pretty much every game we played without Mikko/Kadri/Grubauer etc. if Sakic has enough depth internally to still get the job done when an abnormal amount of impact players get injured you can’t really blame him for keeping his picks/prospects instead of giving them up for pieces we may not need.

Unless Jost pops off, or Z turns back into a butterfly. I'd say those things would help us a ton in the playoffs. Could be the difference between the conference and the final.

You are right though we don't know, but you of all people know Sakic decided to check instead of bet and show strength. He didn't help his odds.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

The Islanders were faltering before the TDL if I remember correctly. We ran them over. It was like two different teams in our games against them.

I'm not really trying to come at this as much from a cap space/use angle, as I am filling needs for the roster, and not things I didn't think we needed even when healthy. I do get the sentiment regarding not using the cap, because you waste that extra space from Mack's deal, but I just don't need to use that approach for the argument.

It also has its flaws because Sakic did try to acquire players. He just failed to do so. Its obvious Sakic still seems to be targeting a winger over a center too. Which I disagree with.

I completely understand the sentiment, but what some fans are suggesting is harder than it sounds. "Maximizing this year cap" is something we ALL want to do, but if you don't do it right, you end up with Florida. Must be great that they had good friendly contracts like Barkov/Hubs and now they have Bobrovsky.

I really wish the NHL had a roll over mechanism like the NFL where we can roll over unused cap space or allow extensions to count towards this year's cap space.

As for targetting a player via trade. While I agree he might have "failed" to acquire what he wanted, but its a want and not a need. Its the philosophy of being frugal/diligent which leads to long term/sustainable success. That results in more cup opportunities/more chances. Our window is not Mack's 4 year discount contract. It's as long as Mack is still an elite player.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I completely understand the sentiment, but what some fans are suggesting is harder than it sounds. "Maximizing this year cap" is something we ALL want to do, but if you don't do it right, you end up with Florida. Must be great that they had good friendly contracts like Barkov/Hubs and now they have Bobrovsky.

I really wish the NHL had a roll over mechanism like the NFL where we can roll over unused cap space or allow extensions to count towards this year's cap space.

As for targetting a player via trade. While I agree he might have "failed" to acquire what he wanted, but its a want and not a need. Its the philosophy of being frugal/diligent which leads to long term/sustainable success. That results in more cup opportunities/more chances. Our window is not Mack's 4 year discount contract. It's as long as Mack is still an elite player.

I think Sakic was focused on longer term moves, but both of the top centers moved ended up being that.

Also I've pointed it out before, but in the end I'm most irritated he didn't do a Nameste move for the defense. It was obvious that EJ, Cole, and Z were on a rotation based on who sucked less. ImO that is mostly due to fatigue with EJ and Cole, but having a legit option to throw in that mix was a need.

So back against the wall as we assume Sakic was, he at the very least should have been more in on some of the defenders moved.

Maybe he held too high of an opinion on Cotton and Barbs though. I don't know.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think Sakic was focused on longer term moves, but both of the top centers moved ended up being that.

Also I've pointed it out before, but in the end I'm most irritated he didn't do a Nameste move for the defense. It was obvious that EJ, Cole, and Z were on a rotation based on who sucked less. ImO that is mostly due to fatigue with EJ and Cole, but having a legit option to throw in that mix was a need.

So back against the wall as we assume Sakic was, he at the very least should have been more in on some of the defenders moved.

Maybe he held too high of an opinion on Cotton and Barbs though. I don't know.

I would have liked an Alec Martinez trade. A guy with true championship experience. A Nameste level move for the defense wouldn't give us a player much better than Barbs/Connauton (who are much better than Dries).

 

[El Travo]

You are still just flapping in the wind while I've got actual trades that I'd replicate in order to add to our depth and chances of a deeper run.

So is your opinion that we are perfect, and needed nothing? You all drinking the Sea water?

Oh shit, you have actual trades that would go through? What the hell are they paying Sakic for? Go apply for the job and turn this franchise around!

No, we aren't perfect. I'm just being reasonable and not expecting a 12 player turnover in a single season. I mean, Sakic has only brought in Kadri, Burakovsky, Donskoi, Nichushkin, Bellemare, Namestnikov, a full time Francouz, and a drafted Makar (which many here didn't like the pick) this year alone. But nah, Sakic is just sitting on his hands doing sweet f*** all to help the team. Got it.

 

[TheRarestDangles]

Everyone in this thread poops.

 

[JoeSakic13]

 

[expatriatedtexan]

He made an offer to an UFA who refused it (and probably didn't even consider it). That counts to you as icing the best team possible for the playoffs?

Actually, I read that both Panarin's agent and wife both thought he should take the Avs offer. I would say it was considered but the lure of the bright lights was what put him in New York. And yes, I think Joe had indeed try to ice the best possible team this season. As for the deadline, all to often it's the moves you don't make that help the most.