GDT: Game 9: Sharks @ Vegas 7pm NBCSCA

[DG93]

Holy shit is there a lot of whining going on in this thread...this team was meant to be awful, and it is. This is the painful part of the rebuild where the team has bottomed out. As more talent comes in every year, they will get better. Right now, it's all about the young guys getting some experience and developing their game, which is why Will Smith is here and why it's dumb to send him anywhere else. Celebrini coming back will give us another reason to watch even though the team will still be...wait for it, terrible!

Regarding this team, even when healthy, everyone is playing a line/pair above where they should be. Eklund-Celebrini-Toffoli, Granlund-Smith-Zetterlund, Goodrow-Wennberg-Sturm is a solid bottom-9, but they have 0 top line forwards. Walman-Ceci and Ferraro-Thompson is fine as a bottom-4, but they have zero top pairing defensemen. Eventually, Celebrini and hopefully other top draft picks (+ trades/FA signings) will fill those roles, but for now, that is why the team is very bad. And still, their underlying stats are not bottom-3 in the cap era bad like last year when they were rolling out a bunch of guys who aren't even NHL level players like Addison, Burroughs, Okhotiuk, Zadina, Barabanov, Hoffman, Carpenter, and Labanc.

We gotta stay patient...this is the way.

 

[coooldude]

It would be a massive improvement over Warso's lines.

No, it absolutely would not. It's just a line blender. That's not magic. Our team is just overmatched and each player is playing 1-3 lines above where they should, and no amount of mixing and matching is going to change that this season.

I wrote out a whole analysis of your lines and alternate lines but at the end of the day, we don't have enough 1st line talent, 2nd line talent to fill out two scoring lines, especially without our 1C, who is still an unproven 18 year old (lisan al gaib). And we only have just enough bottom 6 talent to have a solid game IF everyone shows up and plays well. That won't change no matter what magic chemistry anyone tries to find. Not to mention the D, which again, is an even worse situation and the real problem.

 

[weastern bias]

It would be a massive improvement over Warso's lines.

It would make zero difference, you still have no top line play drivers and every line has players playing over their depth, it's shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic

 

[Zarzh]

No, it absolutely would not. It's just a line blender. That's not magic. Our team is just overmatched and each player is playing 1-3 lines above where they should, and no amount of mixing and matching is going to change that this season.

I wrote out a whole analysis of your lines and alternate lines but at the end of the day, we don't have enough 1st line talent, 2nd line talent to fill out two scoring lines, especially without our 1C, who is still an unproven 18 year old (lisan al gaib). And we only have just enough bottom 6 talent to have a solid game IF everyone shows up and plays well. That won't change no matter what magic chemistry anyone tries to find. Not to mention the D, which again, is an even worse situation and the real problem.

That's not a line blender, what Warso is doing is a line blender. All I did was stick two players who can handle the puck and create some space with a guy who can forecheck hard and get to the net to take advantage of the space, that's pretty simple and it's the only real option.

What was Gushchin-Granlund-Toffoli even trying to do? Or Kostin-Smith-Zetterlund? Those are absolutely line blender lines.

 

[weastern bias]

That's not a line blender, what Warso is doing is a line blender. All I did was stick two players who can handle the puck and create some space with a guy who can forecheck hard and get to the net to take advantage of the space, that's pretty simple and it's the only real option.

What was Gushchin-Granlund-Toffoli even trying to do? Or Kostin-Smith-Zetterlund? Those are absolutely line blender lines.

It's a line blender, you're just rearranging the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th liners this team has to offer and trying to create a useful top-9

The problem with this team is not fit, it is a lack of talent

 

[exchequer]

Mike Grier has maximized our futures in the fallout but make no mistake the present was ALWAYS going to look like this in the mid 2020s as a result of Wilson's decisions, we literally had no avenues to avoid this

Except for the 3rd rounder for Thrun isn't looking genius right now.

 

[Star Platinum]

Except for the 3rd rounder for Thrun isn't looking genius right now.

Is it possible he was rushed to the NHL too quickly coming straight from the NCAA? We're not exactly talking about a guy who was an elite prospect.

 

[weastern bias]

Except for the 3rd rounder for Thrun isn't looking genius right now.

Spending a mid round pick on an NCAA prospect who it wiling to sign with you is a very reasonable gamble, it hasn't paid off with Thrun but the trade still made plenty of sense

 

[Cas]

What are the odds a third-round pick turns into an NHL player? 15%?

Thrun isn't much, but I think he has a better than 15% chance to have a decent career as a bottom pair defenseman.

If you told me that any given third-round pick would turn into an NHL/AHL tweeter who might peak as a depth defenseman, I'd be ecstatic.

The Thrun trade is just fine. It only looks bad if you either thought Thrun was going to be a legitimate top four guy, or assume that any low pick is going to turn into a hit.

 

[Zarzh]

It's a line blender, you're just rearranging the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th liners this team has to offer and trying to create a useful top-9

The problem with this team is not fit, it is a lack of talent

No, my lines are useful because they'll work sometimes and teach good habits. You especially want that in a development year.

 

[Alaskanice]

For the most part the difference between top lines and bottom lines is offensive ability. Top lines are who scores, bottom line does the dirty work. Right now we’re throwing out 3 checking lines (for lack of a better word) which means we should theoretically be better than giving up on average close to 5 goals a game. We’ve also played (and lost) to teams that have more or less the same talent. The other bottom feeders that made us look absolutely silly. I didn’t expect the offense to be potent by any means but the defensive structure even with the vets brought in should be far, FAR better than this.

Ironically, for all the flack they get, Ruuta and Mario are somehow the only positive +- players on the team.

That last part made me smile.

 

[weastern bias]

No, my lines are useful because they'll work sometimes and teach good habits. You especially want that in a development year.

Tell yourself whatever you want, but the lineup you suggest reads as such:

Gushchin-Granlund-Zetterlund
Eklund-Wennberg-X
Goodrow-Smith-Toffoli
Grundstrom-Sturm-X

AHL tweener-2nd liner-3rd liner
2nd liner-4th liner-PLUG
4th liner-NCAA player-2nd liner
4th liner-4th liner-PLUG

No high level play drivers, no game breaking talent, only one top-6 quality player playing center, and a sea of players who shouldn't be playing above a 4th line level

That team would have very similar results, they would arguably be even worse on offense because the only capable contributors would have even less support from their linemates and several of them would see less ice time

This team lacks the talent to be competitive on a nightly basis, it's a jigsaw puzzle with dozens of missing pieces, try as you might to fit them together you will not have a complete picture because you don't have the necessary materials

 

[Zarzh]

Tell yourself whatever you want, but the lineup you suggest reads as such:

Gushchin-Granlund-Zetterlund
Eklund-Wennberg-X
Goodrow-Smith-Toffoli
Grundstrom-Sturm-X

AHL tweener-2nd liner-3rd liner
2nd liner-4th liner-PLUG
4th liner-NCAA player-2nd liner
4th liner-4th liner-PLUG

No high level play drivers, no game breaking talent, only one top-6 quality player playing center, and a sea of players who shouldn't be playing above a 4th line level

That team would have very similar results, they would arguably be even worse on offense because the only capable contributors would have even less support from their linemates and several of them would see less ice time

This team lacks the talent to be competitive on a nightly basis, it's a jigsaw puzzle with dozens of missing pieces, try as you might to fit them together you will not have a complete picture because you don't have the necessary materials

Goodrow and Wennberg are 3rd liners and Gushchin has potential, Zetterlund is a good supportive forward in the right circumstances.

That's just not true, in most cases having easier matchups greatly offsets that, it would be far better offensively because a lot of what Warso's doing has greatly diminishing returns unless you're coaching a top 5 player in which case you can make an argument to do so. Plus you're activating and developing other offensive threats. There's a reason Labanc has had a good stretch in Columbus as a depth scoring option where he only had bad stretches under Quinn.

 

[weastern bias]

Goodrow and Wennberg are 3rd liners and Gushchin has potential, Zetterlund is a good supportive forward in the right circumstances.

That's just not true, in most cases having easier matchups greatly offsets that, it would be far better offensively because a lot of what Warso's doing has greatly diminishing returns unless you're coaching a top 5 player in which case you can make an argument to do so. Plus you're activating and developing other offensive threats. There's a reason Labanc has had a good stretch in Columbus as a depth scoring option where he only had bad stretches under Quinn.

Kevin Labanc is scoring because he's getting minutes on a team with no better options, he's a classic tank commander, it has very little to do with coaching

You still haven't pointed out a single high level play driver on the roster, so the results will be the same, a bunch of passengers with no one to drive the bus, the results are predictable, a very bad team

 

[matt trick]

Without Celebrini this team sucks to near historical levels, with Celebrini they’ll just suck to bottom 3 in the league levels. Blaming the coach when Ceci, Ferraro, Rutta, Thrun, and Thompson/Benning are the 2-6 dmen and they are lacking one of their 5 top 6(ish) forwards makes no sense to me. Especially given the third line isn’t top class either.

Ceci will likely be moved on, and I imagine SJ will pick up 1-2 two of Trouba, Liljigren, Borgen, Ekblad, and Fabbro, and another Wennberg-esque vet. If we’re lucky Granlund is back (ideally after being traded). If not maybe they try another Tofolli like addition, though they were likely to get Tyler. They’ll sign Vanecek/Blackwood or another goalie to platoon with Askarov. I’d move Benning+3rd/Bords for Liljigren now. A PMD to play with Ferraro would be a nice pickup.

Misa/Martone/Hagens, Muk, and Cardwell or Graf will make the team.

Eklund-Celebrini-Tofolli
Misa-Granlund-Vet
Wennberg-Smith-Zetts
Goody-Dellandrea-Cardwell
Grundstrom, G. Smith

Walman-Borgen
Ferraro-Liljigren
Muk-Thompson
Thrun

Askarov
Vanecek

Another year of incremental gains, another year of a franchise pillar added. This is building through the draft, and we’re not done paying the piper. Mercifully, it seems like we’re in a midst of a series of strong drafts.

I want the team to be competitive too, but Grier inherited 50 miles of shit, and he’s mucked 35 of it. I’d let him muck the last 15 rather than building on a shit foundation.

 

[OrrNumber4]

If we’re lucky Granlund is back (ideally after being traded).

So many fans make plans like this, but it happens with extremely low frequency. If Granlund is traded, he is 99% gone. You can have the cake or eat it...

 

[coooldude]

Without Celebrini this team sucks to near historical levels, with Celebrini they’ll just suck to bottom 3 in the league levels. Blaming the coach when Ceci, Ferraro, Rutta, Thrun, and Thompson/Benning are the 2-6 dmen and they are lacking one of their 5 top 6(ish) forwards makes no sense to me. Especially given the third line isn’t top class either.

Ceci will likely be moved on, and I imagine SJ will pick up 1-2 two of Trouba, Liljigren, Borgen, Ekblad, and Fabbro, and another Wennberg-esque vet. If we’re lucky Granlund is back (ideally after being traded). If not maybe they try another Tofolli like addition, though they were likely to get Tyler. They’ll sign Vanecek/Blackwood or another goalie to platoon with Askarov. I’d move Benning+3rd/Bords for Liljigren now. A PMD to play with Ferraro would be a nice pickup.

Misa/Martone/Hagens, Muk, and Cardwell or Graf will make the team.

Eklund-Celebrini-Tofolli
Misa-Granlund-Vet
Wennberg-Smith-Zetts
Goody-Dellandrea-Cardwell
Grundstrom, G. Smith

Walman-Borgen
Ferraro-Liljigren
Muk-Thompson
Thrun

Askarov
Vanecek

Another year of incremental gains, another year of a franchise pillar added. This is building through the draft, and we’re not done paying the piper. Mercifully, it seems like we’re in a midst of a series of strong drafts.

I want the team to be competitive too, but Grier inherited 50 miles of shit, and he’s mucked 35 of it. I’d let him muck the last 15 rather than building on a shit foundation.

Post deserves to be somewhere other than a post-game shit fight!

 

[matt trick]

So many fans make plans like this, but it happens with extremely low frequency. If Granlund is traded, he is 99% gone. You can have the cake or eat it...

Agreed, I’ve elaborated on this elsewhere. Almost universally once traded they’re gone.

I’d rather whatever trading is (I guess eat it)? Though I’d ask him where (of acceptable offers) he wanted to go. And say, we’d love to have you back, and will pay a premium for you to return.

I think when most fans say this they want the player back at market value. In SJs case they can also pay more than just about anyone on a short term contract and may be the top bidder on a medium term contract.

Almost certainly you’re right, but I do think SJ has a unique situation with so much open cap room. It’s worth a shot, but even if he guaranteed he’d be with the team who had him at the deadline I’d move him for a first.

Post deserves to be somewhere other than a post-game shit fight!

I kind of keep posting the same thing over and over! I’d tell people to chill, but I live in London, so I’m hardly watching every game, and when I do watch them they’re not live and I tend to know the result. If this was my night 3 days a week, I’d want results too!