GDT: Game 79: Avs @ Ducks | Sunday, April 1st, 7pm MT | Of Course

[Cypher]

The guy who seems to like to turtle in the 3rd with a lead and can't generate offense unless MacKinnon goes all world? Yeah, no way we could upgrade on that.

Yeah, cause Q's team in Chicago never turtled, ever . Look at the dman he's had in Chicago, compared to what Bednar is working with. Also, look how much more Chicago spends on those cup winning teams compared to this years Avs (money for scoring depth). I very much doubt Q would even be able to squeeze out as much success from this roster than Bednar has. The guy is the runner-up for the Jack Adams this year, and you want to replace him with a "what if". The thought of replacing Bednar this off-season is utterly ridiculous.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, cause Q's team in Chicago never turtled, ever . Look at the dman he's had in Chicago, compared to what Bednar is working with. Also, look how much more Chicago spends on those cup winning teams compared to this years Avs (money for scoring depth). I very much doubt Q would even be able to squeeze out as much success from this roster than Bednar has. The guy is the runner-up for the Jack Adams this year, and you want to replace him with a "what if". The thought of replacing Bednar this off-season is utterly ridiculous.

You do know the JacK Adams is the award coaches get as a pre-consolation for being fired right?

Goaltending has more to do with who wins the Jack Adams than who wins the Jack Adams. This year who is it? His nick name is Flower, and even his back ups have been insane when in.

 

[Cypher]

Goaltending has more to do with who wins the Jack Adams than who wins the Jack Adams. This year who is it? His nick name is Flower, and even his back ups have been insane when in.

Exactly, with Rannta next year, who cares who the coach is, we'll yield similar results in the standings, since goaltending is everything. So why pay Q 10 million when you can pay Bednar 1 million for the same result.

 

[McMetal]

Yeah, cause Q's team in Chicago never turtled, ever . Look at the dman he's had in Chicago, compared to what Bednar is working with. Also, look how much more Chicago spends on those cup winning teams compared to this years Avs (money for scoring depth). I very much doubt Q would even be able to squeeze out as much success from this roster than Bednar has. The guy is the runner-up for the Jack Adams this year, and you want to replace him with a "what if". The thought of replacing Bednar this off-season is utterly ridiculous.

What I admire about Coach Q is his player usage and getting the most out of his roster. It's not a coincidence that players who have left Chicago rarely reach the same heights they did under that staff. Hell, look at what he's been able to do this year. A 75 point season out of an atrocious roster and trash goaltending. Put Bednar in charge of that team and it'll be 48 point season redux.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Exactly, with Rannta next year, who cares who the coach is, we'll yield similar results in the standings, since goaltending is everything. So why pay Q 10 million when you can pay Bednar 1 million for the same result.

I don't feel compelled to thoroughly argue the merits of Q versus Bednar. You win

 

[Cypher]

What I admire about Coach Q is his player usage and getting the most out of his roster. It's not a coincidence that players who have left Chicago rarely reach the same heights they did under that staff. Hell, look at what he's been able to do this year. A 75 point season out of an atrocious roster and trash goaltending. Put Bednar in charge of that team and it'll be 48 point season redux.

Panarin seems to be doing fine in CBJ. Q is a 20 year NHL veteran coach, last year was Bednar's 1st, so yeah, last year Bednar probably wouldn't have gotten 75 points for this years Chicago, maybe near 48. But this year Bednar would definately have improved on that 48.

But you can't be switching coaches every 2-3 years. Players need stability. Coaches need time to develope, just like players, especially a coach who's this is his first NHL job. Not Bednar's fault Girard got walked in OT last night, but at least he put Girard out there, and Girard will take this as a learning experience moving forward. Look at this year's PP and PK stats compared to last year, day and night, and not a whole lot of player changes. Next year, they'll probably look to improve face-offs, and grow from there. There's a few problems with the team, face-offs, secondary scoring, reliable goal-tending, but coaching isn't one of them, at least not near the top of the list.

 

[Foppberg]

I like Bednar, he has his irritating habits but what coach doesn't? Literally every team in the league you'll see the fans moan about their coach, even with a guy like Babcock.

I think he's a very good coach for young players, which we have an abundance of so I'd be a fan of having him around for at least the next year.

With that said if for whatever reason Q was willing to come here I'd make a hell of a sales pitch.

 

[McMetal]

Panarin seems to be doing fine in CBJ. Q is a 20 year NHL veteran coach, last year was Bednar's 1st, so yeah, last year Bednar probably wouldn't have gotten 75 points for this years Chicago, maybe near 48. But this year Bednar would definately have improved on that 48.

But you can't be switching coaches every 2-3 years. Players need stability. Coaches need time to develope, just like players, especially a coach who's this is his first NHL job. Not Bednar's fault Girard got walked in OT last night, but at least he put Girard out there, and Girard will take this as a learning experience moving forward. Look at this year's PP and PK stats compared to last year, day and night, and not a whole lot of player changes. Next year, they'll probably look to improve face-offs, and grow from there. There's a few problems with the team, face-offs, secondary scoring, reliable goal-tending, but coaching isn't one of them, at least not near the top of the list.

Yes, go ahead and cite the one player who did well after leaving and ignore Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Ladd, Sharp, and Saad. Just because there's an exception or two doesn't mean the trend isn't there.

And the thing about not switching coaches doesn't make sense. You should stick with a bad coach for stability's sake? Of course not. If Joe Colborne can lose his NHL job for sucking, so can the coach. If you have the chance to land an elite coach, you do it. Job performance should matter for a coach.

I question how much Bednar actually has to do with the resurgence of the team. IMO it's largely due to MacKinnon breaking out and going all-world and Bennett revamping Army's power play. He remains inflexible in his strategic thinking at 5v5 and isn't able to make in game adjustments, which is why coaches like Gallant, Yeo, and Laviolette have been running rings around him this year, particularly in third periods.

 

[Cypher]

Yes, go ahead and cite the one player who did well after leaving and ignore Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Ladd, Sharp, and Saad. Just because there's an exception or two doesn't mean the trend isn't there.

And the thing about not switching coaches doesn't make sense. You should stick with a bad coach for stability's sake? Of course not. If Joe Colborne can lose his NHL job for sucking, so can the coach. If you have the chance to land an elite coach, you do it. Job performance should matter for a coach.

I question how much Bednar actually has to do with the resurgence of the team. IMO it's largely due to MacKinnon breaking out and going all-world and Bennett revamping Army's power play. He remains inflexible in his strategic thinking at 5v5 and isn't able to make in game adjustments, which is why coaches like Gallant, Yeo, and Laviolette have been running rings around him this year, particularly in third periods.

Go ahead and cite the last couple games and ignore the two games we won vs PITTs, the two games we won vs BOS, etc. If Q was is much better, why have the Avs handled Chicago this year, and Q not been able to counter-act Bednar's successful moves? Bednar won the ECHL championship in his second year as a head coach, won the AHL championship in his second year as head coach, I think the man knows how to adapt to other teams play. But all in all, firing Bednar this off-season would be utterly absurd, end of discussion.

 

[Pokecheque]

What I admire about Coach Q is his player usage and getting the most out of his roster. It's not a coincidence that players who have left Chicago rarely reach the same heights they did under that staff. Hell, look at what he's been able to do this year. A 75 point season out of an atrocious roster and trash goaltending. Put Bednar in charge of that team and it'll be 48 point season redux.

Oh boy...even after bringing the team to the brink of the playoffs the silly Any-Coach-Other-Than-Bednar-Would-Not-Have-Had-a-48-pt-Season argument takes a new form!

And in addition to the Panarin example already listed, there's Byfuglien, Teravainen, Ladd, and Saad returning to the nurturing mustache of Coach Q actually went the exact opposite direction this year. Same goes for Brent Seabrook.

Don't get me wrong, Q is a brilliant coach, but you don't get to make excuses for him and then say they don't apply to Bednar. Q, like any coach, needs talent to succeed. That's why he left Colorado. He knew the roster in 2008-09 wasn't good enough.

 

[McMetal]

Oh boy...even after bringing the team to the brink of the playoffs the silly Any-Coach-Other-Than-Bednar-Would-Not-Have-Had-a-48-pt-Season argument takes a new form!

Well, no other coach besides Bednar has HAD a 48 point season, so the worst you can say about that argument is that it's speculative because we can never know for sure. But you can't say it's baseless.

And I'm not making excuses for Q. Look at that roster. If anything, he's the only reason that collection of spare parts isn't slumming with Buffalo. Of course you need talent to succeed, but Q is doing quite well for himself despite an objective lack of talent on that team. Bednar is doing well because the top line isn't giving him a choice. Without Varley going on a tear we wouldn't even be in the playoff conversation right now.

 

[cgf]

I did something I don't usually do -- I looked into their GDT.
Just the last couple of pages.
Wow.
Wish nothing but misfortune on that team.
Won't comment on the HFDuck posters...

I'll do it for you. They're (somehow) even worse than Minny fans.

 

[Bender]

What I admire about Coach Q is his player usage and getting the most out of his roster. It's not a coincidence that players who have left Chicago rarely reach the same heights they did under that staff. Hell, look at what he's been able to do this year. A 75 point season out of an atrocious roster and trash goaltending. Put Bednar in charge of that team and it'll be 48 point season redux.

Absolutely. Quenneville is a fantastic coach. I remember those Avs teams he coached to 3 straight 95 point seasons with rosters that had no business getting to the playoffs twice and being eliminated the last day of the season with the other. Truly GREAT coaches will mask a lot of issues on teams they coach. Just like Babcock is masking a lot of Toronto's deficiencies and making them believe they are SC contenders. (they are NOT in my opinion - good team but they aren't there yet and probably won't get past the 1st or 2nd round in the playoffs)

Yes, go ahead and cite the one player who did well after leaving and ignore Kruger, Hjalmarsson, Ladd, Sharp, and Saad. Just because there's an exception or two doesn't mean the trend isn't there.

And the thing about not switching coaches doesn't make sense. You should stick with a bad coach for stability's sake? Of course not. If Joe Colborne can lose his NHL job for sucking, so can the coach. If you have the chance to land an elite coach, you do it. Job performance should matter for a coach.

I question how much Bednar actually has to do with the resurgence of the team. IMO it's largely due to MacKinnon breaking out and going all-world and Bennett revamping Army's power play. He remains inflexible in his strategic thinking at 5v5 and isn't able to make in game adjustments, which is why coaches like Gallant, Yeo, and Laviolette have been running rings around him this year, particularly in third periods.

I think you both make really good points. Stability is important with teams and coaching, however if you've identified that a certain coach is only going to bring you so far, then you probably shouldn't miss out on bringing on an elite coach, if they are available. Timing is probably the most important thing. I don't think the Avs are there yet but within the next 2 years, they'll know whether they are sticking with Bednar or whether they are going to need to make a change.

So I feel it's going to play out this way with Bednar : I think the Avalanche will give him a 1-year extension after this season so he doesn't go into next year as a 'lame-duck' coach. It's the right move, he deserves it and more importantly it doesn't tie us in for too long and it fits within a reasonable time frame. So Bednar will prove to be the guy going forward or he'll be replaced with an elite coach in Dec 2019 or something like that.

 

[Pokecheque]

Well, no other coach besides Bednar has HAD a 48 point season, so the worst you can say about that argument is that it's speculative because we can never know for sure. But you can't say it's baseless.

And I'm not making excuses for Q. Look at that roster. If anything, he's the only reason that collection of spare parts isn't slumming with Buffalo. Of course you need talent to succeed, but Q is doing quite well for himself despite an objective lack of talent on that team. Bednar is doing well because the top line isn't giving him a choice. Without Varley going on a tear we wouldn't even be in the playoff conversation right now.

Bednar has gotten the team this far with an ace top line, a 2nd line of grinders that started out as the team's 4th line, and beyond that a mishmash of rookies, not to mention a slew of injuries, including his best player, two best defensemen, and both of his goaltenders. Oh and his 2nd pairing during the 10-game win streak consisted of two players claimed off waivers. Shit on Bednar all you want but why doesn't he get any credit for that and yet Q gets credit, according to you, for somehow buoying a bad roster to 23rd place (tied for that BTW, they could very easily drop to 27th)?

And pray tell, what successful coach didn't have a reliable goaltender and top scorers?

I truly believe Quenneville to be one of the best coaches of all time, but let's not characterize this season in Chicago as some sort of miracle job. Chicago, much like Colorado last year, had a talented core surrounded by role-players and grinders who held serve okay right up until the goaltending disappeared. Only difference IMO is that Colorado's role-players and grinders were demonstrably worse, hence the much-worse results.

 

[22FUTON9]

Like it or not I can't see sakic dumping bednar just because someone becomes available after the season he's had

 

[Pokecheque]

Like it or not I can't see sakic dumping bednar just because someone becomes available after the season he's had

And there's no reason to do so. Sakic chose to stick with Bednar after many were clamoring for his dismissal after one season. It turns out it was the right choice. Whether he is the guy to take them all the way remains to be seen but so far I'm liking what he's doing (though I've gone on record that some things gotta be addressed going forward).

 

[CobraAcesS]

And there's no reason to do so. Sakic chose to stick with Bednar after many were clamoring for his dismissal after one season. It turns out it was the right choice. Whether he is the guy to take them all the way remains to be seen but so far I'm liking what he's doing (though I've gone on record that some things gotta be addressed going forward).

You just don't hold onto average when elite becomes available. I'd imagine we wouldn't be the only team willing to fire their coach in order to pickup Q. My bet would be that it's the 2018-19 off season though. Both Q and Bednar's contracts end in the same off-season.

I think Q moves on from Chicago in 2019 personally. I've got my doubts they fire him this year.

 

[Balthazar]

Just a few weeks ago experts were saying that if Vegas didn't happen, Bednar would probably be the leading candidate for the Jack Adams. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Just a few weeks ago experts were saying that if Vegas didn't happen, Bednar would probably be the leading candidate for the Jack Adams. He's not going anywhere anytime soon.

I don't give a flying f*** about the Jack Adams, and it's almost become a joke around the league as well. Everyone pretty much knows goaltending wins that award. Gallant is a good coach, but Vegas also drafted a 4th line 40 goal scorer and a goal tender with three Cups under his belt.

Lets not use that award as a reason to keep anyone. Roy/Sackho did basically the same thing.

 

[Pokecheque]

You just don't hold onto average when elite becomes available. I'd imagine we wouldn't be the only team willing to fire their coach in order to pickup Q. My bet would be that it's the 2018-19 off season though. Both Q and Bednar's contracts end in the same off-season.

I think Q moves on from Chicago in 2019 personally. I've got my doubts they fire him this year.

You're assuming Bednar is an average coach. But hey that's a higher mark than you've been giving him beforehand!

In all seriousness though, you and I can probably agree that the Avs ain't gonna pay two coaches if they can help it.

Personally I don't think Q moves on. I think he wants to turn that thing around. Not sure about Bowman though.

 

[CobraAcesS]

You're assuming Bednar is an average coach. But hey that's a higher mark than you've been giving him beforehand!

In all seriousness though, you and I can probably agree that the Avs ain't gonna pay two coaches if they can help it.

Personally I don't think Q moves on. I think he wants to turn that thing around. Not sure about Bowman though.

There has already been solid reports of Q and management not being on good terms. I think Q knows that team is done with not much coming in the way of help. Similar to Babs, I think he'll move on.

We're probably the closest to being ready, and built now and in the future for his style IMO. It will depend on if Sakic has a good relationship with him, and how Bednar progresses in year three. If Bednar actually learns how to coach at a higher level, maybe they keep him. I'm not convinced, though he'll have a whole other season to prove it IMO.

 

[Pokecheque]

There has already been solid reports of Q and management not being on good terms. I think Q knows that team is done with not much coming in the way of help. Similar to Babs, I think he'll move on.

Precisely why I think if one guy is out, it'll be Bowman. Just depends on how much sway both Stan and his old man have with Rocky Wirtz I suppose. Do we know if Q is in the final year of his contract?

But if there ends up being a FA coaching scramble I'll be all for it.

What'd be hilarious is if Sakic somehow convinces Bednar to do what Granato did the last time Quenneville became available.

What I do not want to see is Q ending up in Detroit.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Precisely why I think if one guy is out, it'll be Bowman. Just depends on how much sway both Stan and his old man have with Rocky Wirtz I suppose. Do we know if Q is in the final year of his contract?

But if there ends up being a FA coaching scramble I'll be all for it.

What'd be hilarious is if Sakic somehow convinces Bednar to do what Granato did the last time Quenneville became available.

What I do not want to see is Q ending up in Detroit.

I'm like 99% sure Q has one more year left. There was a lot of speculation about them firing him last off-season, and his contract term came up then.

I doubt Q would want to oversee a complete rebuild the way Babs did, especially when there are a few young teams out there that might want new coaches. Buffalo, EDM, NYI, COL, and who knows who else might be in the market by 2019. He'll punch his own ticket to which ever roster/system he likes best that off season I think. Chicago wouldn't come in top 10, and neither would Detroit IMO.

 

[Pokecheque]

I'm like 99% sure Q has one more year left. There was a lot of speculation about them firing him last off-season, and his contract term came up then.

I doubt Q would want to oversee a complete rebuild the way Babs did, especially when there are a few young teams out there that might want new coaches. Buffalo, EDM, NYI, COL, and who knows who else might be in the market by 2019. He'll punch his own ticket to which ever roster/system he likes best that off season I think. Chicago wouldn't come in top 10, and neither would Detroit IMO.

Yeah, Chicago is trying like hell to rebuild on the fly, one of the most aggressive attempts to do so I can remember since the cap came into being. They sure remind me of the Avs in the waning days of Joe Sakic. I could see them being competitive and entertaining, but I don't think they're contenders any longer unless they land another star defenseman. Maybe Crawford returns to form and they surprise, but I doubt it.

No doubt Q will be hotly pursued if he becomes available. If it happens my guess is Philadelphia. It's the perfect team for him--a pretty stacked roster up front, talented and mobile puckmoving defenders on the back end, and shaky goaltending Q won't hesitate to throw under the bus if they have a bad night.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Yeah, Chicago is trying like hell to rebuild on the fly, one of the most aggressive attempts to do so I can remember since the cap came into being. They sure remind me of the Avs in the waning days of Joe Sakic. I could see them being competitive and entertaining, but I don't think they're contenders any longer unless they land another star defenseman. Maybe Crawford returns to form and they surprise, but I doubt it.

No doubt Q will be hotly pursued if he becomes available. If it happens my guess is Philadelphia. It's the perfect team for him--a pretty stacked roster up front, talented and mobile puckmoving defenders on the back end, and shaky goaltending Q won't hesitate to throw under the bus if they have a bad night.

Yeah, there could be teams like STL, and WPG, or others who feel they've under achieved as well.