GDT: Game 74: Red Wings at blues 8:00 pm et 4/1/25

[lilidk]

Berggren is a 4A player, I really cannot understand people still pushing an expanded role for him. He has been not very good for the balance of the season and scratched under two different coaches.

Can he flash for games, sure. But that is kind of what makes a 4A player, I include him in a deal for sure this summer. Yzerman stated we need to get harder to play against and Johnny Burgers is one of our Charmin guys.

Since last season only Raymond and Debrincat improved, rest are regrets . That's on Yzerman and coaches. Not sure if makes sense to bring Danielson or Cossa in this environment.
Berggren probably will be gone this summer and we will wonder in couple of seasons, why we didn't keep him

 

[cvaicunas]

Berggren is absolutely awful and has been completely MIA for months.

I'm not going to say he is awful, I'm too invested in him as a player at this point. However, two coaches coming to the same conclusion on where to play him in the lineup is damning in my opinion. He may be a case of the classic, needs a new environment; or he just is what he is at this point.

 

[cvaicunas]

Only was able to watch the third period.

Didn't resemble a team who wants to make the playoffs.

Too many guys taking shifts off.

Hustle was there for the second line, Marco Kasper is definitely making a name for himself, but overall was a pretty poor performance.

Talbot made a few great saves, but the game tying goal with under 30 seconds, although was a nice deflection; it was very saveable.

Hopefully this ain’t the final nail on the office for the post season aspirations, but if I’m a betting man, I don’t think I’m wasting any money on wagering for the post season at this point. Something like a 3.7% chance to make it… going to need to grab at least 12 points to make it.

I'm not putting that goal on Talbot. At this point it's a certainty when they go down 6-5 that they will be unable to garner possession of the puck, and if they do, they sling shot it down for an icing. We are now on our second coach, do I can't decide if it is a personnel deal, or coaching. For the life of me, I can't think of any other team I watch that struggles so badly in these situations. If I were the opposing team I would do what St Louis did last night and pull the goalie at 4 min. You know your going to get countless opportunities with near impunity. Between our near historically bad PK and the late game 6-5, i think the latter is the more infuriating

 

[norrisnick]

I'm not going to say he is awful, I'm too invested in him as a player at this point. However, two coaches coming to the same conclusion on where to play him in the lineup is damning in my opinion. He may be a case of the classic, needs a new environment; or he just is what he is at this point.

It's not damning. What NHL coach is going to put a HOFer in the bottom 6 at ES? Because that's where Kane belongs at this point.

He's a young player being blocked in the lineup by a 36yo shadow of an allstar.

Same situation as Johansson who magically appeared to be an actual player when he got to play with actual players after Petry got hurt.

 

[Scottgaf1]

The big difference between detroit and the top teams is depth. Our bottom 6 is not playoff caliber or bottom pair d.

Goaltending hasn't been good, but not complaining after this game. Talbot was great.

The good thing is adding guys at each spots bumps guys down where they belong, and Detroit has guys ready to step in everywhere. Adding a stud FA or two puts this team where they need to be and they have the cap to do it. Question is, do those players want to be in Detroit

 

[cvaicunas]

It's not damning. What NHL coach is going to put a HOFer in the bottom 6 at ES? Because that's where Kane belongs at this point.

He's a young player being blocked in the lineup by a 36yo shadow of an allstar.

Same situation as Johansson who magically appeared to be an actual player when he got to play with actual players after Petry got hurt.

I'm not even close to ready to suggest Burgers could replace Kane. Kane is not blocking him from climbing up the ranks. Not to mention he plays LW, while Kane plays RW

 

[norrisnick]

I'm not even close to ready to suggest Burgers could replace Kane. Kane is not blocking him from climbing up the ranks. Not to mention he plays LW, while Kane plays RW

At even strength? Absolutely. PP? Less so, but that's only because the opposition backs off of Kane. If they actually pressured Kane like they do at ES or like they pressure everyone else, he wouldn't be nearly as effective. That's the aura, moreso than actual ability at this point. In his prime, he could make defenders pressuring him look stupid. Not any more. If he has time and space, he can find plays. But not if the other team has 5 skaters on the ice.

Berggren plays LW because Tank can't play anything but RW. Berggren can play either side.

 

[SoupGuru]

It's not damning. What NHL coach is going to put a HOFer in the bottom 6 at ES? Because that's where Kane belongs at this point.

He's a young player being blocked in the lineup by a 36yo shadow of an allstar.

Same situation as Johansson who magically appeared to be an actual player when he got to play with actual players after Petry got hurt.

You're saying the guy with the 4th most points and goals on the team is a clear bottom 6er?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

At even strength? Absolutely. PP? Less so, but that's only because the opposition backs off of Kane. If they actually pressured Kane like they do at ES or like they pressure everyone else, he wouldn't be nearly as effective. That's the aura, moreso than actual ability at this point. In his prime, he could make defenders pressuring him look stupid. Not any more. If he has time and space, he can find plays. But not if the other team has 5 skaters on the ice.

Berggren plays LW because Tank can't play anything but RW. Berggren can play either side.

They rare times they do actually attack Kane in that position he still makes them pay. Kane is the biggest reason we have a top 5 PP and he is teaching that straight across to Raymond who is starting to do the same things. But the respect he gets on the PP that you're talking about is nearing two decades of terrorizing teams that did attack him. He hurts you laying back too, but if you aggressively challenge he more often than not makes the right play and is still one of the most accurate saucer passers I have seen. That is reading a scouting report and we have seen a number of backdoor and cross seam passes that victimize attacking kills.

Berggren almost 150 games into his career scores in the NHL by .01% rate as noted Red Wings HF board offensive force Michael Rasmussen. I know how much this board loves his offensive ability. Every team has a prospect/transitioning player like this for the most part. He has some real tools, he also has some very real deficiencies and he isn't as young as some want to make him out to be. If he is going to be something it will likely be somewhere else. If we are going to carry him for offense we need a heck of a lot more of it, he was basically placed to be Sprong, something his champions on the board would have tilted his offense to bring him to, he has failed at it. Blame his linemates, those are going to be his linemates moving forward. It is time to cut bait, frankly cutting it for better things should have come earlier from Yzerman.

He even got an assist in this game and played okay. I just see no purpose in forcing him up the lineup, I have seen enough, get Danielson top 6 minutes, sign a top 6 forward, but don't count on this guy ascending to that all of a sudden at 25 next year. If he does I will be as happy as can be, I just really don't see it happening and think attaching him in the right return really is the answer. I would rather play Mazur in his role and have some checking in the lineup.

 

[Lampedampe]

Berggren just doesn't bring enough. Defensively he's not reliable, he's not physical, he doesn't get into the dirty areas or win puck battles. All while not scoring?

I've had big hopes for Berggren, and liked him for a long time. But what i see today is a player that has some amazing tools, but sadly, some awful tools.

His main problem as i see it, is that he fails to gain seperation, which never gives him time to utilize his amazing playmaking in most situations. He doesn't have the strength, puck handling skills or speed to gain seperation in this league. Which make him close to useless.

But yeah, coaches keep playing him. So maybe im misssing something. But they're also giving Tank like 18 minutes of ice time some nights, so im not sure that's a great argument.

 

[norrisnick]

They rare times they do actually attack Kane in that position he still makes them pay. Kane is the biggest reason we have a top 5 PP and he is teaching that straight across to Raymond who is starting to do the same things. But the respect he gets on the PP that you're talking about is nearing two decades of terrorizing teams that did attack him. He hurts you laying back too, but if you aggressively challenge he more often than not makes the right play and is still one of the most accurate saucer passers I have seen. That is reading a scouting report and we have seen a number of backdoor and cross seam passes that victimize attacking kills.

Berggren almost 150 games into his career scores in the NHL by .01% rate as noted Red Wings HF board offensive force Michael Rasmussen. I know how much this board loves his offensive ability. Every team has a prospect/transitioning player like this for the most part. He has some real tools, he also has some very real deficiencies and he isn't as young as some want to make him out to be. If he is going to be something it will likely be somewhere else. If we are going to carry him for offense we need a heck of a lot more of it, he was basically placed to be Sprong, something his champions on the board would have tilted his offense to bring him to, he has failed at it. Blame his linemates, those are going to be his linemates moving forward. It is time to cut bait, frankly cutting it for better things should have come earlier from Yzerman.

He even got an assist in this game and played okay. I just see no purpose in forcing him up the lineup, I have seen enough, get Danielson top 6 minutes, sign a top 6 forward, but don't count on this guy ascending to that all of a sudden at 25 next year. If he does I will be as happy as can be, I just really don't see it happening and think attaching him in the right return really is the answer. I would rather play Mazur in his role and have some checking in the lineup.

That's all fine and dandy. Moving on from a young player because a soon to be 37yo sells tickets is silly from the perspective of a team trying to build for the future. For all the nifty tricks people want to believe Kane is teaching all our young players, he has a ton of warts I wouldn't want anywhere near our young players. There's a reason he's been barely teetering at even at ES for his career. Even spending the bulk of it on a powerhouse team. We had a pretty good PP before he ever played a game for us last season.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Berggren just doesn't bring enough. Defensively he's not reliable, he's not physical, he doesn't get into the dirty areas or win puck battles. All while not scoring?

I've had big hopes for Berggren, and liked him for a long time. But what i see today is a player that has some amazing tools, but sadly, some awful tools.

His main problem as i see it, is that he fails to gain seperation, which never gives him time to utilize his amazing playmaking in most situations. He doesn't have the strength, puck handling skills or speed to gain seperation in this league. Which make him close to useless.

But yeah, coaches keep playing him. So maybe im misssing something. But they're also giving Tank like 18 minutes of ice time some nights, so im not sure that's a great argument.

As a believer in him I still think he's a dude that can pop off offensively in the right circumstance. Would I hate giving Lombardi or Danielson a look to see if they can play the same role more effectively? No.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

It's not damning. What NHL coach is going to put a HOFer in the bottom 6 at ES? Because that's where Kane belongs at this point.

He's a young player being blocked in the lineup by a 36yo shadow of an allstar.

Same situation as Johansson who magically appeared to be an actual player when he got to play with actual players after Petry got hurt.

Thanks for the laugh. If Kane sucks so much, he shouldn't have any problem taking his minutes.

Classic AAAA player who is what he is. Just because he is small and Swedish doesn't mean he is actually any good.

JB is a good reminder why we shouldn't romanticize Hakan's scouting.

 

[Run the Jewels]

JB is a good reminder why we shouldn't romanticize Hakan's scouting.

A few things:

• He's a second rounder who is going to have better NHL production than our two first round picks in 2018: Zadina and Veleno. He's going to end up being our 'best' pick in that draft, which is damning with faint praise.
• He got twice as much PP time in 2022-23 as he's received this season. That year, he was 15th among 2018 draft picks for total points and only played 67 games. There were only three players picked after him who generated more points that season. Not great, but also not terrible given where he was drafted.
• The reason the possession numbers seem to be suffering this season is because his most common line mates are Taraskenko and Compher. Recently, he's played alongside Motte and Watson. That's brutal.
• I don't think he's great or anything, but if he gets time on the 3rd line and on the 2nd power play unit, his production will start to look better. If he's going to be a career 4th liner with no power play time and playing alongside plugs, he's not going to add much.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

A few things:

• He's a second rounder who is going to have better NHL production than our two first round picks in 2018: Zadina and Veleno. He's going to end up being our 'best' pick in that draft, which is damning with faint praise.
• He got twice as much PP time in 2022-23 as he's received this season. That year, he was 15th among 2018 draft picks for total points and only played 67 games. There were only three players picked after him who generated more points that season. Not great, but also not terrible given where he was drafted.
• The reason the possession numbers seem to be suffering this season is because his most common line mates are Taraskenko and Compher. Recently, he's played alongside Motte and Watson. That's brutal.
• I don't think he's great or anything, but if he gets time on the 3rd line and on the 2nd power play unit, his production will start to look better. If he's going to be a career 4th liner with no power play time and playing alongside plugs, he's not going to add much.

Agree with all points.

If the wings can build a scoring 3rd line like they had in 23-24 then Berggren can be a contributor. A 40ish point guy that plays pp2. I’d rather find someone more defensively sound or gritty for the role but Burgers is cheap.

He needs skill to play with.

And holy f*** did Tyler Wright screw Detroit over in his time here. Was he a secret plant by Columbus to take the wings down?

 

[dalem177]

This schedule is messing with me. If we have to watch a train wreck (that I think they cans till pull out of) can it be QUICKLY? 9 games back to back then 50 days off is dum.