GDT: Game #69: Buffalo @ Utah | 7:00pm MDT | Utah16, MSG-B

[TheLegend]

I agree, but then why was Crouse only out for one game?

Different roles..... (see: Liam O'Brien)

FWIW..... Maccelli played very well last night in a fourth line role. Even though he still skated himself into a turnover a couple of times.


Hence.....

 

[lanky]

I knew this argument was going to come up. Kevin Stenlund is a -12, does that mean LOB is a better defensive player because he is a +1? this is a meaningless stat in my eyes.

It's not meaningless, it's just lacking context. Stenlund gets heavily deployed in the D zone.
LOB is often on Stenlund's line, but also spent time on other lines that get sheltered usage.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

My current gain in weight is too.

Anwer could be in the diet? Too much restaurant food, fast food, take-out, all tough on us.

Got a Salad and Go near ya?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I agree, but then why was Crouse only out for one game?

Most likely because we don't know what the hell is really going on..... something you've mentioned over and over.

 

[Chel Guy]

You make good points, but don't forget Schmaltz and Sergi are vets and have proved them self over the years, where Cooley is basically a rookie. I have no idea why MM is receiving this treat as sell. Maybe it goes a little deeper.

That makes it even worse. Sergi being a vet means he should know better to not retaliate, especially doing it twice. Schmaltz also should know to not make the same stupid turnovers as Maccelli, considering he is older and has been in the league longer.

 

[Chel Guy]

It's not meaningless, it's just lacking context. Stenlund gets heavily deployed in the D zone.
LOB is often on Stenlund's line, but also spent time on other lines that get sheltered usage.

It is not completely meaningless no, but it is heavily skewed, so it is hard to base how a player is playing based on that metric.

 

[Chel Guy]

Different roles..... (see: Liam O'Brien)

FWIW..... Maccelli played very well last night in a fourth line role. Even though he still skated himself into a turnover a couple of times.


Hence.....

Liam O'Brien's role should be in the AHL. Hopefully, he will finally be where he belongs next season, once But is on the team.

 

[Summer Rose]

It is not completely meaningless no, but it is heavily skewed, so it is hard to base how a player is playing based on that metric.

It's an okay stat if you give it a very large sample size, such as an entire season, then compare it to, say, someone on another team in the league with a similar amount of games played and similar deployment. The difference also has to be significant. Two fourth line centers who finish at -8 and -12 each don't have a significant difference between the two. If one is +10 and the other is -20 though, that tells you a lot. Even then it won't tell you everything about each player. There could be a valid explanation such as the one who finished -20 being on a terrible team. However, just because it doesn't tell you "everything" doesn't make it a meaningless stat in my eyes. It has some applications, and however few they may be, that makes it not meaningless, by the definition of the word "meaningless."

 

[Chel Guy]

It's an okay stat if you give it a very large sample size, such as an entire season, then compare it to, say, someone on another team in the league with a similar amount of games played and similar deployment. The difference also has to be significant. Two fourth line centers who finish at -8 and -12 each don't have a significant difference between the two. If one is +10 and the other is -20 though, that tells you a lot. Even then it won't tell you everything about each player. There could be a valid explanation such as the one who finished -20 being on a terrible team. However, just because it doesn't tell you "everything" doesn't make it a meaningless stat in my eyes. It has some applications, and however few they may be, that makes it not meaningless, by the definition of the word "meaningless."

yes in that sense you're right. It does have meaning as long as you understand the stat and how to judge and percieve players by looking at the variables that go into it like you stated. If you're just looking at it without looking at the variables it is meaningless imo.

 

[Jakey53]

That makes it even worse. Sergi being a vet means he should know better to not retaliate, especially doing it twice. Schmaltz also should know to not make the same stupid turnovers as Maccelli, considering he is older and has been in the league longer.

Hockey is a contact sport, emotion and adrenaline runs high.

 

[TheLegend]

Anwer could be in the diet? Too much restaurant food, fast food, take-out, all tough on us.

Got a Salad and Go near ya?

Just had that for lunch today.

Biggest difference is I’m finally retired after spraining the hip last September and the lack of physical movement (I needed a walker or cane the first four months). The lack of physical activity is what’s contributing more than anything.

 

[TheLegend]

Liam O'Brien's role should be in the AHL. Hopefully, he will finally be where he belongs next season, once But is on the team.

Bear likes him. So does BA and that’s why he was extended this season.

And like it or not he’s a huge favorite with the Utah fans.

 

[lanky]

I'm not a huge LOB fan but his hustle is contagious. I give him more credit for saving Crouse than I give credit to Crouse himself.

 

[LittlePipes]

I knew this argument was going to come up. Kevin Stenlund is a -12, does that mean LOB is a better defensive player because he is a +1? this is a meaningless stat in my eyes.

A player like MM can't be buried on the fourth line or play 10 mins a night to get into a groove. Give the guy some more leeway. I understand he wasn't great earlier this year, but neither was a guy like Nick Schmaltz, but yet nothing ever happened to him. I seen him make many careless plays with the puck. Same with Keller even, but not as bad.

Another example where this coaching staff is hypocritical is with Sergachev and Cooley. Cooley took a bad retaliation penalty and was benched for it earlier this year. well, Sergachev took not just one, but two stupid retaliation penalties this year that I have seen, and nothing happened to him. He was out for his next shift in both cases. Pretty hypocritical if you ask me. I still don't think this coaching staff is good enough to get us over the hump and a change will have to be made eventually for us to get to that next

It's an okay stat if you give it a very large sample size, such as an entire season, then compare it to, say, someone on another team in the league with a similar amount of games played and similar deployment. The difference also has to be significant. Two fourth line centers who finish at -8 and -12 each don't have a significant difference between the two. If one is +10 and the other is -20 though, that tells you a lot. Even then it won't tell you everything about each player. There could be a valid explanation such as the one who finished -20 being on a terrible team. However, just because it doesn't tell you "everything" doesn't make it a meaningless stat in my eyes. It has some applications, and however few they may be, that makes it not meaningless, by the definition of the word "meaningless."

spoken like someone who understands a t test and statistically significant ( or not) differences between 2 data sets.

 

[LittlePipes]

Hockey is a contact sport, emotion and adrenaline runs high.

its true. I got slew footed in front of the net, and while I was laying on the ice the ref blew the whistle and called me for tripping. I got up and slashed him in the shins.

 

[Chel Guy]

Hockey is a contact sport, emotion and adrenaline runs high.

Oh I understand that. I play it. So why is Cooley punished for it, but yet Sergi does it twice and isn't? The veteran excuse is a lame duck excuse

 

[Jamieh]

Oh I understand that. I play it. So why is Cooley punished for it, but yet Sergi does it twice and isn't? The veteran excuse is a lame duck excuse

That's the easy answer. Sergi is who is as an NHL Player, you can fluff around tge edges but the chances of changing his game aren't great. Cooley, on the other hand, is just starting and the coach wants to instill in him the things that will make him a more successful player. Every coach in history treats young players different than veterans and if the kid buys in its to his benefit.

 

[Chel Guy]

That's the easy answer. Sergi is who is as an NHL Player, you can fluff around tge edges but the chances of changing his game aren't great. Cooley, on the other hand, is just starting and the coach wants to instill in him the things that will make him a more successful player. Every coach in history treats young players different than veterans and if the kid buys in its to his benefit.

ya but what message does that send the rest of the team? a veteran coach benches sergachev the first time. Maybe then he wouldn't have done it twice. I think the coach shouldn't have benched either if he isn't gonna bench one guy. I like that the kid has that fire in him, can't change his game.

 

[Chel Guy]

Bear likes him. So does BA and that’s why he was extended this season.

And like it or not he’s a huge favorite with the Utah fans.

What is the appeal though? He isn't great in both zones of the ice. He gets lost. He really can't fight that well, and he rarely lays guys out.

 

[Jamieh]

ya but what message does that send the rest of the team? a veteran coach benches sergachev the first time. Maybe then he wouldn't have done it twice. I think the coach shouldn't have benched either if he isn't gonna bench one guy. I like that the kid has that fire in him, can't change his game.

You coach veterans while you teach young players. You can teach a young player to make better decisions and effort and penalize when they show too many examples of short cutting. You run a greater risk of alienating older players with the same actions. Whether it's effective or not you can debate but pretty much every coach in history coaches this way.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Just had that for lunch today.

Biggest difference is I’m finally retired after spraining the hip last September and the lack of physical movement (I needed a walker or cane the first four months). The lack of physical activity is what’s contributing more than anything.

Congrats on your retirement!

And good, hopefully you can get a little more active everyday, which should help.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

ya but what message does that send the rest of the team? a veteran coach benches sergachev the first time. Maybe then he wouldn't have done it twice. I think the coach shouldn't have benched either if he isn't gonna bench one guy. I like that the kid has that fire in him, can't change his game.

The message is that they’d best take care of their own puking game!
Coaches are far more “fair” today than they were in years gone by. We all survived them in the past and teams were often better for it.