GDT: GAME 63 | Red Wings @ Senators | Fabian vs the Octopus Edition | Mon Mar 10 2025, 7:30PM | TVAS, PRIME

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It doesn't matter. You either have to determine when the attempt occurred or when the horn goes. You still have to determine the exact time of action. Why change what it has always been?

I get other leagues do it. BUT WHY SHOULD THE NHL CHANGE?

Everything you said has absolutely nothing to do with whether we should count attempts before the buzzer or whether the puck needs to fully cross the line. The NBA and NFL have iconic moments of scoring plays after the game clock has run out but the NHL should be the only one of the three that doesn't do it that way because oh god, how could we differentiate the release of a shot from a stick compared to the release of a basketball from a hand...or because we're Canadian...or because the rink doesn't have sidelines or something...


Soccer...famously a sport where goals are never scored after the exact 90 minutes of game time have elapsed, right?

THAT IS NOT THE END OF THE GAME THOUGH.
 
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I just don't understand this antiquated view of "when the game is over". Did the player shoot the puck at the net before time expired? If so, the game wasn't over when the shot was released, was it?

I don't know what goaltending has to do with anything. A basketball player can still try to block a shot even if it's at the buzzer and goaltending in basketball is a completely different rule meant to "protect" shots as they are falling towards the basket. A football player can still score even after time has run out. Some of the best moments in sports history, famously, have come after game time has "ended".

I think they should change the rule to be more in line with what the 2 other major sports with time keeping are doing, rather than being the outlier. Is it going to add a huge amount of goals? No. However, it could create some interesting strategies with late game faceoffs in the offensive zone, breakaways or odd man rushes near the end of periods/games, etc. And it will surely create some incredible moments for the sport, that will live on and create talking points for casual sports fans.
How is it antiquated? Such a bizarre argument completely devoid of any rationale.

The buzzer going off can impact how players react, that's why in basketball it makes sense, players can't stop a ball already in flight so the buzzer won't impact their defense of it. In hockey, that's not the case,

A blocked shot in basketball happens fractions of a second after release, the likelihood of the buzzer going between release and before the block is tiny, and even if it does, that block is already in motion so no chance the buzzer changes how it plays out.

Aside from all that, you still aren't addressing the biggest issue, all you are doing is shifting where the cut off is, this isn't football where the snap starts the clock, if you want that, it's puck drop for a faceoff. Video review to try and judge if the puck is release or not is both bad from an entertainment perspective and bad from a practical one, can you imagine how stupid the league would look overturning a goal because they lacked the video angle to show the puck had been release prior to the horn?
 
It doesn't matter. You either have to determine when the attempt occurred or when the horn goes. You still have to determine the exact time of action. Why change what it has always been?

I get other leagues do it. BUT WHY SHOULD THE NHL CHANGE?
NFL you have to snap the ball for every play... Be like the NFL ? huh Release the puck vs puck crosses line ... idiotic suggestion.. unbelievable
 
It doesn't matter. You either have to determine when the attempt occurred or when the horn goes. You still have to determine the exact time of action. Why change what it has always been?

I get other leagues do it. BUT WHY SHOULD THE NHL CHANGE?



THAT IS NOT THE END OF THE GAME THOUGH.
To become a more modern game? To create the opportunity for iconic buzzer-beating moments to transpire? To create "water-cooler" moments for the casual sports fan to discuss? Because it ultimately makes more sense than the archaic standard of the scoring play having to be fully completed for it to count just...because. I already mentioned how it could impact late-game set plays from faceoffs, odd-man rushes/breakaways at the end of periods/games, etc. It's not a change that's going to result in 100s more goals or something.

Why is the salient argument "because this is how we've done it"? That's not really a good reason to keep something the way it is, is it?
 
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To become a more modern game? To create the opportunity for iconic buzzer-beating moments to transpire? To create "water-cooler" moments for the casual sports fan to discuss? Because it ultimately makes more sense than the archaic standard of the scoring play having to be fully completed for it to count just...because. I already mentioned how it could impact late-game set plays from faceoffs, odd-man rushes/breakaways at the end of periods/games, etc. It's not a change that's going to result in 100s more goals or something.

Why is the salient argument "because this is how we've done it"? That's not really a good reason to keep something the way it is, is it?
Why is release more iconic than crossing the line, how is emulating NFL, soccer or basketball more modern?

Football and Soccer both allow the clock to run between plays, we should do that too right?

There's no good reason to change things but lots of valid ones to keep it as it is,

-players behavior changes after the buzzer potentially impact the result.

-from a practical perspective, it would be very difficult to always have a good camera angle to determine if the puck is released or not unlike basketball where the ball is above there head at the time of release with nothing obstructing the view

-A buzzer beater of crossing the line vs puck releasing from the stick is a distinction with no difference, there's no more excitement from one to the other, just potential pitfalls.
 
How is it antiquated? Such a bizarre argument completely devoid of any rationale.

The buzzer going off can impact how players react, that's why in basketball it makes sense, players can't stop a ball already in flight so the buzzer won't impact their defense of it. In hockey, that's not the case,
As opposed to hockey players who immediately stop playing at the exact moment there's 0s on the clock? Come on, you know that's bullshit.
A blocked shot in basketball happens fractions of a second after release, the likelihood of the buzzer going between release and before the block is tiny, and even if it does, that block is already in motion so no chance the buzzer changes how it plays out.
What does that have to do with whether the NHL starts counting attempts before the buzzer or the puck fully crossing the line? There should be some outlines to the rule, obviously. Like the final attempt at the puck needs to happen before time runs out but once it's been sent towards the net it should still be live play until the puck is stopped or the play is dead, in all the same ways we currently have. Puck hits a guy and never makes it to the net? Play is dead. What if you had a player on a breakaway with 3 seconds left and they released the puck before the time expired but it went in after the game clock was 0? That's not a goal just because? The player stopped making an attempt to score before time expired. Why is the delineation in that scenario that the puck went in after time had expired as opposed to when the player stopped making the attempt to score?
Aside from all that, you still aren't addressing the biggest issue, all you are doing is shifting where the cut off is, this isn't football where the snap starts the clock, if you want that, it's puck drop for a faceoff. Video review to try and judge if the puck is release or not is both bad from an entertainment perspective and bad from a practical one, can you imagine how stupid the league would look overturning a goal because they lacked the video angle to show the puck had been release prior to the horn?
I don't understand the point you're making. Are you saying the league doesn't have sufficient cameras around the rink to determine if the puck was released before or after the game clock expired? If that's the only issue, it seems like a pretty simple fix.
 
The NFL has an offense and defense on the field. Why stop at one specific clock rule - why not whistle the play dead at every shot attempt because that was the defined play? Whistle it dead, face-off at center ice. Modern. Sports.

Tonight seems plenty exciting given the paragraphs written about it. Not sure we need a rule change when it's already exciting.
 
Why is release more iconic than crossing the line, how is emulating NFL, soccer or basketball more modern?

Imagine Jordan's buzzer beater never counted because the ball wasn't in the hoop before the clock was 00s...
Football and Soccer both allow the clock to run between plays, we should do that too right?
And yet there are many famous plays in the NFL where someone scores after the clock has run out. And there are many famous goals in soccer during added time, a completely arbitrary amount of time given after the official game time has ended. I'm offering an alternative that's crystal clear and can't be abused. The final scoring attempt needs to be made before the clock expires. It's not going to result in an avalanche of additional goals but it can change the tactics of late-game faceoffs, breakaways or odd-man rushes near the end of periods/games, etc.
There's no good reason to change things but lots of valid ones to keep it as it is,

-players behavior changes after the buzzer potentially impact the result.
This is bullshit and you know it. Players don't hear the buzzer and immediately stop playing, like a switch has been turned off. You saw it last night against Detroit. Every guy on the ice was still playing after the time had expired. Every single guy. Hell, most/all of them didn't hear the buzzer or see the time had expired.
-from a practical perspective, it would be very difficult to always have a good camera angle to determine if the puck is released or not unlike basketball where the ball is above there head at the time of release with nothing obstructing the view
Now the NHL can't figure out how to shoot the entire ice surface...
-A buzzer beater of crossing the line vs puck releasing from the stick is a distinction with no difference, there's no more excitement from one to the other, just potential pitfalls.
The only pitfall you're outlining is the archaic "this is how it's always been done" kind.
 
It doesn't matter. You either have to determine when the attempt occurred or when the horn goes. You still have to determine the exact time of action. Why change what it has always been?

I get other leagues do it. BUT WHY SHOULD THE NHL CHANGE?



THAT IS NOT THE END OF THE GAME THOUGH.

I mean the players all know what has to happen. The rule is well defined.

What would constitute an attempt? Player is actually passing but it deflects off a defending player and in. Was it a shot or was it a pass? Who decides?

And food for thought. An 80 MPH shot (pretty average) from just outside the blueline (very long attempt) takes 0.4 seconds to travel 80 feet to the net. That extra 0.4 seconds would really create some drama!!!!

NBA and NFL plays have balls in the air for longer, no goaltending in the NBA and have well defined possessions.

This has to be the most bizarre, hare-brained rule change proposal I've heard in a while.
 
As opposed to hockey players who immediately stop playing at the exact moment there's 0s on the clock? Come on, you know that's bullshit.
We've literally seen it happen, guys ease up at the whistle all the time.
What does that have to do with whether the NHL starts counting attempts before the buzzer or the puck fully crossing the line? There should be some outlines to the rule, obviously. Like the final attempt at the puck needs to happen before time runs out but once it's been sent towards the net it should still be live play until the puck is stopped or the play is dead, in all the same ways we currently have. Puck hits a guy and never makes it to the net? Play is dead. What if you had a player on a breakaway with 3 seconds left and they released the puck before the time expired but it went in after the game clock was 0? That's not a goal just because? The player stopped making an attempt to score before time expired. Why is the delineation in that scenario that the puck went in after time had expired as opposed to when the player stopped making the attempt to score?
It's not hard to understand, there's a difference between a football play starting and letting the play run, or a ball in the air where nobody can legally prevent it from scoring, or a soccer ref not blowing the final whistle to allow for injury time, and a buzzer going off before a goal. Football and soccer have their systems because the clock continues between plays, basketball because once the ball passes the block, there is no legal way to prevent the basket, so player behaviour no longer matters.

I don't understand the point you're making. Are you saying the league doesn't have sufficient cameras around the rink to determine if the puck was released before or after the game clock expired? If that's the only issue, it seems like a pretty simple fix.
It's not a simple fix, the puck is on the ice with ten 200 pd guys obstructing camera views moving around at 24 mph and your asking for an unobstructed view of the puck from every spot on the ice at any given time, like, use some common sense.
 

Imagine Jordan's buzzer beater never counted because the ball wasn't in the hoop before the clock was 00s...

And yet there are many famous plays in the NFL where someone scores after the clock has run out. And there are many famous goals in soccer during added time, a completely arbitrary amount of time given after the official game time has ended. I'm offering an alternative that's crystal clear and can't be abused. The final scoring attempt needs to be made before the clock expires. It's not going to result in an avalanche of additional goals but it can change the tactics of late-game faceoffs, breakaways or odd-man rushes near the end of periods/games, etc.

This is bullshit and you know it. Players don't hear the buzzer and immediately stop playing, like a switch has been turned off. You saw it last night against Detroit. Every guy on the ice was still playing after the time had expired. Every single guy. Hell, most/all of them didn't hear the buzzer or see the time had expired.

Now the NHL can't figure out how to shoot the entire ice surface...

The only pitfall you're outlining is the archaic "this is how it's always been done" kind.

For f*** sakes, if you want buzzer beaters watch Basketball, as its a part of the game. This isn't basketball.

It's not a simple fix, the puck is on the ice with ten 200 pd guys obstructing camera views moving around at 24 mph and your asking for an unobstructed view of the puck from every spot on the ice at any given time, like, use some common sense.
Of course its a simple fix. Just like stripping the Brady of the C would be. Come on now.
 
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For f*** sakes, if you want buzzer beaters watch Basketball, as its a part of the game. This isn't basketball.


Of course its a simple fix. Just like stripping the Brady of the C would be. Come on now.
It's such a myopic argument because it just changes the moment the buzzer beater happens. If Jordan and the bulls were playing in a league when the ball has to be through the hoop to count, the play is changed to get a shot off quicker. Behaviour changes according to the rules, change the rules and you don't see the play evolve in the same way, maybe we get some different iconic moment instead.
 
Part of professional sports is entertainment. It's easy for a fan to see a basketball player release his shot. The travel time of the ball is significantly longer. There is no debate on if the player got their shot off in time. It's only watching to see if it goes in.

Changing the rule doesn't change anything for the fan in hockey. The puck is small relative to the players, the puck is at their feet and it travels extremely fast when a shot is released. Rule change or not - hockey fans would still debating if it's a good goal or not and the referees would still need to review the play.

I do not understand the logic of advocating a rule change that hundreds of players would need to adjust to that provides nothing substantial for the fan viewing experience.
 
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We've literally seen it happen, guys ease up at the whistle all the time.
And yet you saw it, with your own eyes, at the end of last night's game.
It's not a simple fix, the puck is on the ice with ten 200 pd guys obstructing camera views moving around at 24 mph and your asking for an unobstructed view of the puck from every spot on the ice at any given time, like, use some common sense.
Come on lol...now the NHL can't keep track of where the puck is??? Are you guys for real? Is this an actual argument someone is making for why this change can't be made? This reason is so stupid I can't believe you're actually using it. Magic disappearing puck means we can't tell if the puck was released from a stick before time expired and went in to the net without any additional shot attempts.
 
I think Green does not want to hurt some 1st, 2nd & 3rd line player feelings.


Obviously, you're just a fan.
Oh no, you discovered my secret - I've been an oscillating fan this whole time!

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And yet you saw it, with your own eyes, at the end of last night's game.

Come on lol...now the NHL can't keep track of where the puck is??? Are you guys for real? Is this an actual argument someone is making for why this change can't be made? This reason is so stupid I can't believe you're actually using it. Magic disappearing puck means we can't tell if the puck was released from a stick before time expired and went in to the net without any additional shot attempts.
There are several arguments available as to why its a stupid idea, not just one. Don't flatter yourself.
 
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And yet you saw it, with your own eyes, at the end of last night's game.

Come on lol...now the NHL can't keep track of where the puck is??? Are you guys for real? Is this an actual argument someone is making for why this change can't be made? This reason is so stupid I can't believe you're actually using it. Magic disappearing puck means we can't tell if the puck was released from a stick before time expired and went in to the net without any additional shot attempts.
We can't even do it consistently at two static lines, we get obstructed views at the goal line and at the blue line on reviews. Just such a stupid idea I have no idea why you are fighting so hard for this...
 
If the rule was the other way, I would still ask why change. I don't really care. I just see a reason to make any change.
I think you'd welcome a lot more controversy with the release time of the puck vs crossing the goal line given the introduction of a much wider span of ice to hope you have a good precise camera angle on vs the goal line which is stationary and already has the camera and is in use for just counting a goal at all times.
 
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We can't even do it consistently at two static lines, we get obstructed views at the goal line and at the blue line on reviews. Just such a stupid idea I have no idea why you are fighting so hard for this...
Because the myriad of reasons for why we can't do it are:
  • this is how it's always been done
  • we don't have enough cameras pointed at the ice
The NHL, and every sports league for that matter, have made many rule changes over the years. We had the 2-line pass rule for 60 years in the NHL...why did we say "it's time to change this" instead of "this is how it's always been done"? We didn't have video review for the vast majority of the NHL's existence. Why did we say "it's time to change this" instead of "this is how it's always been done"? Has video review enhanced the fan experience or made games more entertaining? Does a lengthy stoppage while game officials determine the facts of a review create excitement for fans? Or is it one of those things that we learn to live with because ultimately it makes more sense than how we used to do it?
 
Because the myriad of reasons for why we can't do it are:
  • this is how it's always been done
  • we don't have enough cameras pointed at the ice
The NHL, and every sports league for that matter, have made many rule changes over the years. We had the 2-line pass rule for 60 years in the NHL...why did we say "it's time to change this" instead of "this is how it's always been done"? We didn't have video review for the vast majority of the NHL's existence. Why did we say "it's time to change this" instead of "this is how it's always been done"? Has video review enhanced the fan experience or made games more entertaining? Does a lengthy stoppage while game officials determine the facts of a review create excitement for fans? Or is it one of those things that we learn to live with because ultimately it makes more sense than how we used to do it?
All of those things make sense. Buzzer beater off of a shot in hockey does not.

Two pages and an hour later you haven't convinced anyone. In fact, only the opposite. Take the L and move on. You're derailing the thread with this nonsense anyway.

Why don't you start a thread on the main board about it?
 

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