Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
I think I'd be down with this. Don't like Foligno where he is but I also don't exactly want to saddle Eriksson Ek with 2 nothing players.
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I would've said so last year, but this year he looks all growed up. Also, Boldy isn't exactly tiny. They don't need Foligno on that line giving away pucks like it's Halloween candy. MarJO and his speed is fine, for now. He will open up space for the other two, who aren't the quickest. Johansson has some skill, and had a fantastic stretch with Boldy last year. I suspect he will also mesh well with Rossi.
I just can't see moving JEE down in the lineup, or even Hartman right now. We'll just have to be patient.
Another interesting thing is what will happen to PP 1 once Boldy comes back. Right now, MarJO is THE zone entry guy, and is vg at it. Will Dean take him off the #1 unit after seeing how well he is doing, at least in that aspect?
That would put Boldy, Hartman and Rossi on the #2 PP... not too bad. I would almost rather stick Faber and Spurgeon out there than Foligno/Gaudreau, but that'll never happen.
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I can never predict what Dean will do, and Johansson is very good at zone entries, but if Dean's going to stick Boldy on that second unit when he gets back, he's going to need to start going to them for more than 30 seconds per PP.
I know it's hard to do this after a 5 point game (but give it a couple penalties by him and most will be asking for it anyway), but the most obvious answer here is to move Hartman down to form a more traditional third line, and run
Kaprizov-Ek-Zuccarello
Johansson-Rossi-Boldy
I know it's hard to do this after a 5 point game (but give it a couple penalties by him and most will be asking for it anyway), but the most obvious answer here is to move Hartman down to form a more traditional third line, and run
Kaprizov-Ek-Zuccarello
Johansson-Rossi-Boldy
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Rossi went after the guy who put Foligno into the goal post last game. So, if anything, Foligno needs Rossi to watch his back.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
I think Ek is a legit #1 C and we should start treating him that way.
100%. I know the few games they tried him with Kap last season didn't go overly great, but he's definitely our best C... let's get him up there.
That said, hard to make that argument after Hartman went off last game. If that 1st line stagnates again in a couple games, that's the move to make
Yuck
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
Ek is not a legit #1 C and we should think about what leads to the most offensive success for Kaprizov and Boldy and prioritizing that.
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
I think you’re wrong. Can they shut down for the most part? Yes probably, however that isn’t the type of success we want from Ek. He needs to be with more offensively competent players to use his full potential.
MuckOG
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Maybe, but the majority of Ek's goals come from within 3'-5' of the net. More than anything else, he just needs someone to get a shot through or feed him the puck in front so he can clean it up.
BagHead
Registered User
Eriksson Ek right now reminds me of Koivu a decade ago, though JEE took longer to get to that level. When Koivu started scoring a bunch everyone was sure he was our #1 center, and was being held back by his linemates. Two years later we got Havlat to help him out, and then Parise, and then everyone was saying he should be the #2 center. Also just like JEE, Koivu didn't have chemistry with the best wingers on the team. He did his best offensive work with middling offensive players on his line. Maybe that was a timing issue with where he was in his career arc, or maybe it was his style.
I think there's some truth to JEE being a #1 center, but he should be our #2 center if we want to win a Cup. It isn't a linemate issue, it's a we don't have two really good centers issue. That's why they should probably consider elevating Rossi in the lineup sooner than later, but with our defense corps, I'm not sure this is the year even if Rossi works out.
I think there's some truth to JEE being a #1 center, but he should be our #2 center if we want to win a Cup. It isn't a linemate issue, it's a we don't have two really good centers issue. That's why they should probably consider elevating Rossi in the lineup sooner than later, but with our defense corps, I'm not sure this is the year even if Rossi works out.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
Ding ding ding.
Why are people trying to turn Ek into Connor McDavid when he's good because he is:
1. One of the best defensive centers in the leauge
2. Is really physical in the corners and in front of the net
3. Has good hands in tight as a finisher
He needs to be on a line where we can use him to his strengths. His strength is that he can go against other teams best lines, out-possess them and shut them down, and score some goals as well.
If an Ek led line can go toe to toe with opposing 1st lines and outscore them, that's the path to him having the most impact.
If Ek is now playing with players who play off of the rush, and who aren't going to be prioritizing defense, and who in an optimal world we aren't matching up against their best offensive players.... then all of a sudden Ek's impact is much lessened.... all for what... 10 extra points for Ek when someone else could play in that spot and potentially elevate the lines offensive production even more because they are better playing off of the rush and in open space?
We've really lost the plot with this IMO.
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Koivu could take over games a decade ago. Ek doesn't.
Koivu was better.
Ek is Koivu lite.
Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
This was obviously hyperbole, not engaging with the substance of the argument of post when you clearly know what I mean... nice.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
The substance of the argument is fine, if you have the proper pieces around Eriksson Ek:
1. Clearly better offensive centers
2. Viable wingers to put with him so he's not wasted at even strength
I think both are currently iffy, especially the second one.
Otherwise, you are just continuing to value a good checking line over a good top 6 line, which continues to be a very Minnesota Wild thing to do.
BagHead
Registered User
This is arguing degrees, where I was intending it to be an overarching observation. Koivu was certainly better in a lot of ways, and I think JEE is better in a few, but I don't want to get into the gritty details right now. I think '23-24 JEE is in the same tier as '10-11 Koivu, maybe even '09-10 Koivu. Low-end 1st line center, high end 2nd line center. Either way, not what people typically mean when they say "1st line center".
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
Majority have been as he is a net front presence but he has shown his ability to shoot before. I’d rather him be out with offensive players to grow his game rather than say “hey, you’re done let’s just keep you at this level for awhile”. Putting him with Foligno and maroon limits him and prevents further development IMO.
DeagleJenkins
Registered User
I believe if you wanna go this route, Boldy - Ek and another quality two way wing is what you’re wanting. Good on the wall, can play solid defense and shut down opposing offenses while also putting up points. It just so happens that Boldy can also produce so… I’d rather go that route vs hey put him with stone hands that can play the body and defend well. If you want to have Ek play a great two way game, give him wings that also can. Foligno and maroon are not it.
It is interesting that some are talking about putting JEE down to the 3rd line, in favor of Rossi and his 2g, 1 assist in 27 gp. I am as excited about Marco's progress as the next guy, but let's slow down a bit here.
It was interesting to me that Rossi's goal was with him being right beside the crease, while fighting off a much bigger player. That never would've happened in the past, and is a very good sign.
To me, the only way Rossi gets a top 6 spot is if he takes it away from someone else. Hartman, and especially JEE both have established themselves, and won't be moved on a whim. Rossi will have to show that he is clearly better than the alternative. Right now that's not at all clear. it is frustrating seeing him play with offensively challenged players. I get that. We just have a glut of Centers now, and besides Hartman, all of them are better at C than wing. I could even argue that Dewar deserves a shot at #3C. He is flying somewhat under the radar, but he is also looking stronger this year, and is playing really well.
It was interesting to me that Rossi's goal was with him being right beside the crease, while fighting off a much bigger player. That never would've happened in the past, and is a very good sign.
To me, the only way Rossi gets a top 6 spot is if he takes it away from someone else. Hartman, and especially JEE both have established themselves, and won't be moved on a whim. Rossi will have to show that he is clearly better than the alternative. Right now that's not at all clear. it is frustrating seeing him play with offensively challenged players. I get that. We just have a glut of Centers now, and besides Hartman, all of them are better at C than wing. I could even argue that Dewar deserves a shot at #3C. He is flying somewhat under the radar, but he is also looking stronger this year, and is playing really well.
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Nino Noderreiter
Registered User
I don't want Boldy's job to be shutting down the opposing team's top line -- this is where the disagreement is. That seems like a waste.
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