Post-Game Talk: GAME #6 Florida Panthers vs Tampa Bay Lighting (Knight's in White Satin)

[Little Bobby Boo]

Kinda feel like it was stolen from us. The waived off goal. The elbow to barkov head. They call that and there is no retaliation. Changes the whole damn thing.

Bennett took a poorly timed, stupid penalty in game one, just like he did game six.

it wasn’t taken from us.

 

[Little Bobby Boo]

Third line was awful this series.
Vatrano should be shopped in the off-season. Maybe Seattle bait in a package.

would like to see lundell replace Wennberg.
We don’t need to pay anyone to take stralman. He’ll be fine for a year. Bob can’t be moved.

Yandle should be the #1 priority. Move Yandle and bring in more cheap depth on F and D

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Penalties in games happen. The fact that we continued to roll out the same PK strategy (if you can call it that) the entire series which basically left one of Stamkos (left), Point (center), Kucherov (right) open for a one timer at all times was completely unacceptable.

There are aspects of our game that involve coaching/strategy/personnel usage that are concerning to me. Q does not appear to be nimble in the sense of making in-game and game-to-game adjustments regarding this.

 

[Ghoste]

Penalties in games happen. The fact that we continued to roll out the same PK strategy (if you can call it that) the entire series which basically left one of Stamkos (left), Point (center), Kucherov (right) open for a one timer at all times was completely unacceptable.

There are aspects of our game that involve coaching/strategy/personnel usage that are concerning to me. Q does not appear to be nimble in the sense of making in-game and game-to-game adjustments regarding this.

Agreed. Even against Carolina all season we didn’t make adjustments on the PP. We couldn’t even enter the zone and seemed to give up numerous shortie chances.

Just copy Carolina’s pressure PK. We have the skaters and stamina to try it. And if we give up a goal, it’d be the same as we’re doing now anyway.

-ghoste

 

[ProjectPanthers]

Third line was awful this series.
Vatrano should be shopped in the off-season. Maybe Seattle bait in a package.

would like to see lundell replace Wennberg.
We don’t need to pay anyone to take stralman. He’ll be fine for a year. Bob can’t be moved.

Yandle should be the #1 priority. Move Yandle and bring in more cheap depth on F and D

I blame a lot of this on Hornqvist and the lack of a better option up front with Barkov and Verhaeghe.

Marchment is a great piece for the bottom 6 and he should've been on that line with Frankie and Wenny with Hornqvist on the 4th line.

 

[bov]

Some thoughts nobody asked for...

Huberdeau is obviously dangerous and had a great series, but Verhaeghe and Bennett (aside from 2 terrible penalties) stood out to me in a good way. Marchment and Lomberg were also noticeable in lesser roles, did their jobs well. Acciari, Duclair and Vatrano are guys that usually do well when I see them, but not this series. Acciari seemed banged up and Duclair got crunched as well, but Vatrano was pretty much invisible. Expected more from those 3.

On D, Weegar and Forsling are solid. Not their fault they had to assume the 1-2 positions. Thought Gudas had a strong series, yes he left position for some hits but overall had a really nice playoff imo and played some hard minutes. Montour seems like he could be really effective in the right role/pairing, thought he was decent enough. for what he is. Stralman was not as bad as he's been made out to be...Yandle on the other hand, wow. I know Panther fans have been saying it for awhile but I didn't know he was actually that bad, very costly this series. Nutivaara looked pretty soft and bad. Would be a nice defense with a healthy #1, unfortunately they were just in above their heads because of the Ekblad injury.

Bobrovsky wasn't horrible I guess but he does move around a lot and the Lightning exploited that, good luck getting out of that contract. Always nice to have future #1 in the system though, Knight was impressive.

I'm sure these teams will meet again in the not too distant future.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Well, at the end of the day, they needed to get past the first round. It's only been 25 years.
Every season is different. Can't say what's going to happen next season. Can't say they will do better next season, can't say they will do worse or the same.
I would feel a little better if we were in a rebuild and it was a bunch of prospects growing together and building a team identity.
Getting to the playoffs and getting beat in the first round is not an improvement.
We'll see what happens next year, but I'm not thinking they've reached perennial contender status.

 

[zeroG]

Well, at the end of the day, they needed to get past the first round. It's only been 25 years.
Every season is different. Can't say what's going to happen next season. Can't say they will do better next season, can't say they will do worse or the same.
I would feel a little better if we were in a rebuild and it was a bunch of prospects growing together and building a team identity.
Getting to the playoffs and getting beat in the first round is not an improvement.
We'll see what happens next year, but I'm not thinking they've reached perennial contender status.

you're in a lonely one-man dinghy my friend.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

you're in a lonely one-man dinghy my friend.

Well, it's not that different than usual. I remember getting upset when they fired Gallant, and getting attacked for it. I just can only call it as I see it. I can't predict what people are going to think here.

 

[PSLguy]

You think Tampa has a terrible fan base because of 10 guys on a forum? come to a game in Tampa and you will see how well we treat other teams' fans.

You mean like not allowing fans wearing the opposing teams jersey into section(s) of the arena?

Friends of mine went to a Ranger/Lightning game a few years ago, said they'll never go back due to how they were treated. And no, they're not a**holes, they're off duty cops who value their jobs.

 

[zeroG]

Well, it's not that different than usual. I remember getting upset when they fired Gallant, and getting attacked for it. I just can only call it as I see it. I can't predict what people are going to think here.

i mean, if you step back and ignore many of the data points, sure, there are some similarities.

and there are some possible plot twists that could change the outlook. for example, barkov refuses to resign here. or Q departs for somewhere else somehow (only entering year 3 of 5 year deal tho i believe). those kinds of things. or a career-ending injury to one of our core guys.

if you're really watching though, you saw a big change in the team culture. the team did a near 180 in terms of commitment to defense and it paid dividends in the most successful season we've had (adjusted for season length).

two of our biggest stars had fantastic playoff series. this is huge. it's no longer an abstract argument. we (and they) know they can do it! we discovered some great depth pieces, something we haven't had before.

we went toe to toe with a healthy, defending cup champion team, matching them punch for punch and outplaying them for large stretches of the series.

i called moeller a fool for his facile "lighting are the better team" analysis. yes, it's true - they have spent more and they are a deeper team. however, deeper, better teams on paper don't always win. and we played hard enough to win a series against a championship team in their prime. if not for a handful of mistakes, this could've been a different story.

so, could things change that might alter my (and many others') outlook? sure.

from where i'm sitting right now, though, we've never seen the organization in this position - with a roster containing stars in key positions who have performed in the playoffs and a star coach. there's work to do to improve depth and give us more options up and down the lineup and bring us closer to even footing with cap teams like the bolts. still, this team is ready to contend. maybe others will disagree but i can't say i've ever felt that way about a panthers team at season's end.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Some thoughts nobody asked for...

You're right about that.

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

from where i'm sitting right now, though, we've never seen the organization in this position - with a roster containing stars in key positions who have performed in the playoffs and a star coach. there's work to do to improve depth and give us more options up and down the lineup and bring us closer to even footing with cap teams like the bolts. still, this team is ready to contend. maybe others will disagree but i can't say i've ever felt that way about a panthers team at season's end.

Skepticism is always warranted with a team that has historically been run poorly managed and plagued by ownership miscues.

We think this time will be different because Zito had a really, really good off-season and then made good moves at the TDL, but it's also possible he got lucky. I'm withholding any optimism until I see how Barkov's contract situation and the expansion draft are handled.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

i called moeller a fool for his facile "lighting are the better team" analysis. yes, it's true - they have spent more and they are a deeper team. however, deeper, better teams on paper don't always win. and we played hard enough to win a series against a championship team in their prime. if not for a handful of mistakes, this could've been a different story.

imo having better accountants who can find the loopholes in the bargaining agreement counts as members of the team and thus if they can carve out $20mil worth of extra cap space then they are the better team. Same as players who can draw calls via theatrics, excel at working the refs, etc. It's not just about being the more skilled or hardworking team.
I'd concur that the Cats were working hard in this series but they just didn't have the skills to convert on their chances and sometimes they are just working hard at the wrong places (aka idiots) like making ten passes before considering to take a shot on the PP. They've had countless games where they've taken 40-50 shots in a game and only one or two of those converts into a goal.

 

[letsgrowcactus]

Well, at the end of the day, they needed to get past the first round. It's only been 25 years.
Every season is different. Can't say what's going to happen next season. Can't say they will do better next season, can't say they will do worse or the same.
I would feel a little better if we were in a rebuild and it was a bunch of prospects growing together and building a team identity.
Getting to the playoffs and getting beat in the first round is not an improvement.
We'll see what happens next year, but I'm not thinking they've reached perennial contender status.

Respectfully, how can you say it's not an improvement with our history? This is only the 3rd time since 2000 that we made playoffs (I don't count last year's "play-ins" as playoffs; we were well on our way to miss before COVID). It's Zito's first year as GM; almost everyone had us missing the playoffs altogether before the season started. We finished with 79 points in 56 games, last year we had 78 in 69 - yes I know the divisions are screwy but that's one more point in 13 less games, I like. We were comfortably in a playoff spot for a long time before the end of the season - when was the last time that happened?

Who's saying they're perennial contenders now? Even being a team who gets regularly bounced in round 1 or 2 would be a big improvement to the past 20 years. And I think they look like that, with potential for more (though going to the "traditional" divisions next year back with Tampa, Boston and Toronto will not make it easy...)

As for building team identity, weren't you one of the people who's been asking for one since we fired Gallant? Well, this team has it. I know they got bounced, it sucks, but the standing up for each other, the comeback wins, the "we never give up even if we lose guy Barkov-Ekblad-Duclair-Verhaeghe-Hornqvist-players-X-Y-Z...." we haven't had that since the 2015-16 season at least. We were also not carried by stellar goaltending (2015/16 Luongo finished 4th in Vezina votes, and Montoya had a great year as backup) or had multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 who would be likely to regress (such as our two leading scorers Jagr and Jokinen). Our young stars have finally arrived, and we have a solid prospect pool to compliment them in the future (though an "A-level" defence prospect would be nice).

Regression is always possible obviously - is Forsling for real? can Bennett keep it up for a whole season? How does the goalie situation shape up? - but there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic IMO; much more than we were before this season.

 

[zeroG]

imo having better accountants who can find the loopholes in the bargaining agreement counts as members of the team and thus if they can carve out $20mil worth of extra cap space then they are the better team. Same as players who can draw calls via theatrics, excel at working the refs, etc. It's not just about being the more skilled or hardworking team.
I'd concur that the Cats were working hard in this series but they just didn't have the skills to convert on their chances and sometimes they are just working hard at the wrong places (aka idiots) like making ten passes before considering to take a shot on the PP. They've had countless games where they've taken 40-50 shots in a game and only one or two of those converts into a goal.

i don't agree.

every team who's currently behind in their series laments the chances they haven't converted. there are things you can do from a coaching / prep standpoint to improve performance here. (i'm thinking specifically about getting to rebounds but there are other tactical adjustments.)

i don't see a worrisome skills gap. there is a depth gap but we could've overcome that.

 

[Ryuji Yamazaki]

Gonna be fun watching Tampa get stomped by Carolina.

Sweet job giving up that first for David Savard lmfao!

 

[Jacob Roberts]

Gonna be fun watching Tampa get stomped by Carolina.

Sweet job giving up that first for David Savard lmfao!

Truly, a strange take.

“Your team beat ours and they still have a chance to win the Stanley Cup.... but you traded a late 1st so lmfao!!”

 

[zeroG]

Gonna be fun watching Tampa get stomped by Carolina.

Sweet job giving up that first for David Savard lmfao!

i think the lighting are going to handily beat either the preds or canes. in 5 or 6. and i'll be rooting for it because it'll reinforce the narrative that we lost to the best team not named colorado or vegas. and that we are very close.

 

[JP Mick]

Acciari isn’t the same player we brought him in to be. He’s older and has a family to care for now, it isn’t his fault he mellowed out. Luckily players like Marchment and Lomberg have stepped up big time. Great guy but we need gamers to win, and he may be gone next season. If he isn’t playing on the edge and physical, why not replace him with a cheaper option?

 

[avenger]

Bennett took a poorly timed, stupid penalty in game one, just like he did game six.


it affected 100% ... we f***ed up this battle

 

[Pigge]

Acciari isn’t the same player we brought him in to be. He’s older and has a family to care for now, it isn’t his fault he mellowed out. Luckily players like Marchment and Lomberg have stepped up big time. Great guy but we need gamers to win, and he may be gone next season. If he isn’t playing on the edge and physical, why not replace him with a cheaper option?

Mellow? He was 3rd on the team in hits in the playoffs. He was 4th on the team in hits and 3rd in blocked shots (1st among forwards) in the regular season. His presence was missed every time he was out of the lineup.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Respectfully, how can you say it's not an improvement with our history? This is only the 3rd time since 2000 that we made playoffs (I don't count last year's "play-ins" as playoffs; we were well on our way to miss before COVID). It's Zito's first year as GM; almost everyone had us missing the playoffs altogether before the season started. We finished with 79 points in 56 games, last year we had 78 in 69 - yes I know the divisions are screwy but that's one more point in 13 less games, I like. We were comfortably in a playoff spot for a long time before the end of the season - when was the last time that happened?

Who's saying they're perennial contenders now? Even being a team who gets regularly bounced in round 1 or 2 would be a big improvement to the past 20 years. And I think they look like that, with potential for more (though going to the "traditional" divisions next year back with Tampa, Boston and Toronto will not make it easy...)

As for building team identity, weren't you one of the people who's been asking for one since we fired Gallant? Well, this team has it. I know they got bounced, it sucks, but the standing up for each other, the comeback wins, the "we never give up even if we lose guy Barkov-Ekblad-Duclair-Verhaeghe-Hornqvist-players-X-Y-Z...." we haven't had that since the 2015-16 season at least. We were also not carried by stellar goaltending (2015/16 Luongo finished 4th in Vezina votes, and Montoya had a great year as backup) or had multiple guys on the wrong side of 30 who would be likely to regress (such as our two leading scorers Jagr and Jokinen). Our young stars have finally arrived, and we have a solid prospect pool to compliment them in the future (though an "A-level" defence prospect would be nice).

Regression is always possible obviously - is Forsling for real? can Bennett keep it up for a whole season? How does the goalie situation shape up? - but there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic IMO; much more than we were before this season.

Well, I'll just say that it takes time to build up a strong team identity (years). And the very best teams with strong identities come from a well planned, and well executed rebuild. With young players, whose bad habits/weaknesses won't be almost permanent that you have to try and work around. The overhaul of this Panthers team has been going on for one offseason. That's why they fell short. They were inconsistent in how they played. And they don't have time to build up a strong team identity. By the time they get to that point, their key players will be too old to execute it well enough. And if they do manage to execute it, it won't last for too long.
And why shouldn't we try be a perennial contender? That's what this organization's total focus should be. Yeah, we can't right now. Because this organization keeps getting in it's own way. But I'm not happy that because of self destruction, this team can't strive to do what all teams should be striving to do.
That's what a good rebuild is for. And one that's seen all the way through. That's the problem with this organization, always thinking short term.
It would be one thing if Barkov, Huberdeau, and Ekblad were all in their early twenties. They're in their mid to late 20s. This team goes where these three takes them, everyone else complimentary.
I'm not happy getting bounced in the first round, again. And hoping maybe one day we might win a cup with this group. Before having to start another rebuild.
That's just my overall view. I will enjoy short term watching them play and win and hopefully make the playoffs, and hopefully go deep. But I think this team has a glass ceiling, that they might one day break through, once. It should've/could've been more than that.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

i mean, if you step back and ignore many of the data points, sure, there are some similarities.

and there are some possible plot twists that could change the outlook. for example, barkov refuses to resign here. or Q departs for somewhere else somehow (only entering year 3 of 5 year deal tho i believe). those kinds of things. or a career-ending injury to one of our core guys.

if you're really watching though, you saw a big change in the team culture. the team did a near 180 in terms of commitment to defense and it paid dividends in the most successful season we've had (adjusted for season length).

two of our biggest stars had fantastic playoff series. this is huge. it's no longer an abstract argument. we (and they) know they can do it! we discovered some great depth pieces, something we haven't had before.

we went toe to toe with a healthy, defending cup champion team, matching them punch for punch and outplaying them for large stretches of the series.

i called moeller a fool for his facile "lighting are the better team" analysis. yes, it's true - they have spent more and they are a deeper team. however, deeper, better teams on paper don't always win. and we played hard enough to win a series against a championship team in their prime. if not for a handful of mistakes, this could've been a different story.

so, could things change that might alter my (and many others') outlook? sure.

from where i'm sitting right now, though, we've never seen the organization in this position - with a roster containing stars in key positions who have performed in the playoffs and a star coach. there's work to do to improve depth and give us more options up and down the lineup and bring us closer to even footing with cap teams like the bolts. still, this team is ready to contend. maybe others will disagree but i can't say i've ever felt that way about a panthers team at season's end.

I wanted to multiqoute. But my last reply above is the same for this.

 

[zeroG]

I wanted to multiqoute. But my last reply above is the same for this.

Well, I'll just say that it takes time to build up a strong team identity (years). And the very best teams with strong identities come from a well planned, and well executed rebuild. With young players, whose bad habits/weaknesses won't be almost permanent that you have to try and work around. The overhaul of this Panthers team has been going on for one offseason. That's why they fell short. They were inconsistent in how they played. And they don't have time to build up a strong team identity. By the time they get to that point, their key players will be too old to execute it well enough. And if they do manage to execute it, it won't last for too long.
And why shouldn't we try be a perennial contender? That's what this organization's total focus should be. Yeah, we can't right now. Because this organization keeps getting in it's own way. But I'm not happy that because of self destruction, this team can't strive to do what all teams should be striving to do.
That's what a good rebuild is for. And one that's seen all the way through. That's the problem with this organization, always thinking short term.
It would be one thing if Barkov, Huberdeau, and Ekblad were all in their early twenties. They're in their mid to late 20s. This team goes where these three takes them, everyone else complimentary.
I'm not happy getting bounced in the first round, again. And hoping maybe one day we might win a cup with this group. Before having to start another rebuild.
That's just my overall view. I will enjoy short term watching them play and win and hopefully make the playoffs, and hopefully go deep. But I think this team has a glass ceiling, that they might one day break through, once. It should've/could've been more than that.

don't really agree here. zito managed to change the culture and, to an extent, the identity, with one or ntwo pickups. i posted an anecdote elsewhere about horny.

the team seems to be running with its identity as a quick, attacking team with lots of skill. and they managed to round that out with some new grit in lom, marchy and horny, et al. that identity was on display in the playoffs and i think they got some confirmation that it can work.

in my opinion, they are in pretty good shape in terms of the overall identity.

i expect zito to again, look for a few complimentary pieces to solidify that identity and i don't think we need that much.