GDT: Game 59: Sharks @ Jets 4:30pm NBCSCA

[Pinkfloyd]

Regarding Warso's comment that Wennberg had played well in regulation, 3v3 isn't 5v5. Having a good night 5v5 doesn't mean a player has the skill set to do well 3v3.

I don't see much of an argument to say that Wennberg doesn't have the skill set to do well 3v3. He has two of the four OT goals the Sharks have to date.

 

[TheBeard]

I think War gets this year to make these sort of mistakes, if you want to call it that, because right now it's a low year with a bunch of rookies not expecting much. I think the players probably like him and trust the process as a whole, but I don't think they're particularly attached to his coaching philosophy considering he doesn't seem to really have one.

No I do not see any indication in game that the players particularly love him or trust his process.

 

[Star Platinum]

Regarding Warso's comment that Wennberg had played well in regulation, 3v3 isn't 5v5. Having a good night 5v5 doesn't mean a player has the skill set to do well 3v3.

That said, Wennberg won a game for us in OT this year

 

[hohosaregood]

Smith has been developed pretty well all things considered. Could've been handled in a more annoying way. They've been letting him make plays all year and he's been improving off puck the whole time.

 

[Carbooja]

Hi all Jets fan here.

You've probably all heard of this ad-nauseam, but that Celebrini kid of yours is a joy to watch. Generational talent especially at age 18. Reminds me of a more talented Jonathan Toews and a bit of Crosby and some of our own Hawerchuk on the way he just hounds for the puck.

Good luck to you all.

 

[TheBeard]

Hi all Jets fan here.

You've probably all heard of this ad-nauseam, but that Celebrini kid of yours is a joy to watch. Generational talent especially at age 18. Reminds me of a more talented Jonathan Toews and a bit of Crosby and some of our own Hawerchuk on the way he just hounds for the puck.

Good luck to you all.

Shame you couldn’t see what he could do in OT but Wennberg may develop into a special talent at the age of *checks notes*… 30.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Smith has been developed pretty well all things considered. Could've been handled in a more annoying way. They've been letting him make plays all year and he's been improving off puck the whole time.

Seriously, Smith has been handled well (outside of the inexplicable stapling to Goodrow for the first 25 games). He shouldn't be out trying to protect a lead in the final two minutes of a hockey game. He's simply not good defensively, and that's not a criticism of him as a player, he's a teenager.

 

[Barrie22]

An odd stat, the sharks are the 2nd best team with playing with the net empty. With a success rate of -0.054

 

[gaucholoco3]

An odd stat, the sharks are the 2nd best team with playing with the net empty. With a success rate of -0.054

3 goals against Utah for the first game of the season will do that.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Wow this GDT was something else. Some people here need to re-evaluate how they watch the Sharks.

I watch for how the young players are improving and don’t care what the results are. This was an ideal outcome this game. The team hung with a strong team. The young FWs connected for the only goal and other than Graf no other players who will be on the next good Sharks team were on the ice for a goal against.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

It's absolutely wild how unhinged some of you are after losing 1-0 in OT to the best team in the league on the 2nd night of back to backs.....in a season where winning doesn't matter.

I mean, some of this is really tough to read.

Still, the Jets cheapshotted Thrun, then Cellebrini, then Vanicek, the reason I care so much they lost was because they lost the chance to throw it in the Jets faces......

Regarding Warso's comment that Wennberg had played well in regulation, 3v3 isn't 5v5. Having a good night 5v5 doesn't mean a player has the skill set to do well 3v3.

exactly, Wennberg let his man go, and the guy scored......

 

[TheBeard]

Wow this GDT was something else. Some people here need to re-evaluate how they watch the Sharks.

I watch for how the young players are improving and don’t care what the results are. This was an ideal outcome this game. The team hung with a strong team. The young FWs connected for the only goal and other than Graf no other players who will be on the next good Sharks team were on the ice for a goal against.

Hey. Just for fun, go to a signing and tell the player that it was an ideal outcome and see if he agrees.

Shame on some of us who actually root for our team to win once in a while, but hey 2029-30 should be an awesome year!

 

[Hodge]

Hey. Just for fun, go to a signing and tell the player that it was an ideal outcome and see if he agrees.

Shame on some of us who actually root for our team to win once in a while, but hey 2029-30 should be an awesome year!

Timo Meier was traded less than 2 years ago. Did you seriously expect us to rebuild the graveyard of albatross contracts and prospect pool filled with useless smurfs left behind by Dougie and his genius son faster than this?

 

[TheBeard]

Timo Meier was traded less than 2 years ago. Did you seriously expect us to rebuild the graveyard of albatross contracts and prospect pool filled with useless smurfs left behind by Dougie and his genius son faster than this?

Do I expect them to be better than a .200 team?

Yes. Yes I do.

Currently they're a whole one point ahead of last year at this point.

 

[Hodge]

Do I expect them to be better than a .200 team?

Yes. Yes I do.

Currently they're a whole one point ahead of last year at this point.

Also +35 better in goal differential than last year at this point. It's a slow process.

 

[TheBeard]

Also +35 better in goal differential than last year at this point. It's a slow process.

After 12 games last year we were -43 in goals.

This season we're down -17.

Which means a 26 difference.

Which means once you remove the horrendous start last year we're basically on par in that department. In other words, we're approx .2 goals better.

If this is what you mean by slow process then we may be even in that department by the time Macklin is 30.

 

[Hodge]

After 12 games last year we were -43 in goals.

This season we're down -17.

Which means a 26 difference.

Which means once you remove the horrendous start last year we're basically on par in that department. In other words, we're approx .2 goals better.

If this is what you mean by slow process then we may be even in that department by the time Macklin is 30.

"If you ignore our worst games from last season we're actually not that much better this season." Excellent point.

 

[tiburon12]

I honestly have no idea how that last paragraph is over dramatic given the context of the post.

We are literally talking about a situation where the player is either on the ice potentially losing the game with a mistake or sitting on the bench watching others potentially make a mistake and lose the game, and then discussing which circumstance we think the young(any) players would rather be in.

I simply stated in the last paragraph I find it hard to believe anyone would choose the bench option, claiming it was better mentally for them, than the on ice option.

What part of that is being overly dramatic.....?

What accounts, honestly I do not know as I do not follow social media, indicate the team is happier and have higher morale than last year? When were those accounts, three months ago when we were still sorta not the worst team in the league, or in recent weeks when we are dead last and have won 2 games out of like the last 17? Which players said that?

Also, and correct me if I am wrong but I am fairly confident I am not, aren't you one of the people that were super afraid of creating a losing culture when discussing tanking a few years ago? Yet you think that this team having high morale while sucking ass and losing a ton of games is a good sign? I think that if morale is high on this team that indicates our players are fine with losing, which would be a warning sign to me that we having a losing culture setting in on this team. They should not be fine, happy or in good spirits about this season.

No I do not see any indication in game that the players particularly love him or trust his process. I see lots of long faces after we lose yet another game, and I have yet to see any interaction with Warsofsky in game with a player that makes me think "wow those guys seem really close and in high morale". Its entirely possible I missed those interactions as I do mainly watch the games after the fact and skip a lot of the stuff in-between whistles however.

Hopefully we do see more youngsters getting important minutes down the stretch, however I do not share your optimism about that actually happening though unless we lose some people before the trade deadline. Coaches rarely change how they operate 3/4 of the way into the season.

No need to get so defensive man, i just find that "I dunno I find it hard to believe anyone would honestly say they'd be mentally stronger/happier by sitting and observing the team lose from the bench just so that they themselves are not the one who makes a mistake to lose the game." Isn't an opinion anyone on this board owns. Felt very dramatic and strawman-y to say it when it doesnt reflect anyone's thoughts. Like, no one ever mentioned a player not wanting to be on the ice in fear of making a mistake, that was you.

And yes, I was EXTREMELY worried about tanking killing the culture, and I was right. Last year was f***ing brutal on the players and we had leeches like Hoffman sucking life out of the room. Quotes after the season were talking about the lack of a system, struggles to get to the rink every day, etc. This year we are seeing the opposite - the locker room is fun and the team is pulling in the same direction. It's not just social media, it's what the players are saying.

And further, I am still very concerned that we could become buffalo, which is why i, in other threads, have been promoting the idea that the team make it known, perhaps via a FA acquisition, that they are a serious team ready to compete in the next few years. I want them out of the basement ASAP (though not in a rushed way) because of that concern.

Losing games sucks, but how you lose also matters. When you played sports, didnt you participate in great, close games but ultimately lost? Didn't those games feel differently than blowout loses? Working around losing is about setting expectations. If Warso has set the expectation that the team is going to struggle to win, but success comes from individual and team improvement over the balance of the season, then losing a single game really doesnt matter as much. If they lose a game but the powerplay finally clicks, or Smith figures out center over a handful of losses, etc, those are long-term wins. This is clear to anyone who has ever captained or coached a team before, or even been in a leadership position.

Where we differ is that you think Warso is hard set in his ways and won't change, whereas I think that we havent even seen his full-season plan unfold. Remember Will Smith and Celebrini "maintenance days" - Warso has already adjusted. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Anomie2029]

I was the same way and i think today's young athlete still has that competitive drive. Though at some point you have to think that the coaches know they players better than we think we do and might have plans in place we don't know about. Losing a close game on two bad goals sucks, but I prefer to believe in the plan than assuming the worst, as some are. (i sound like Alaskanice lolol)

That last paragraph is a bit of a dramatic representation of an opinion that nobodies owns, no?

By all accounts the team morale is higher and the room is happier than last season. This is a big reason why im not being alarmist when we lose this way. And yes, while I agree with how you would react, it would be disingenuous and premature to judge warso's job developing the young guys over the year before the year is over. Don't you get the feeling the players like him and trust the process?

Either way, I get the feeling we'll see a lot more young guys playing good minutes with fewer going to Goodrow and Kunin types down the stretch.

I don't know why you have this feeling. Warso is defaulting to those two plus Sturm at any opportunity. Warso has proven he isn't a "give the keys to the kids and back them" kind of coach. The Winnipeg game is a prime example of over playing those players.

I'm hoping Kunin and Sturm can get moved (though I'm not confident teams actually see any value in Sturm), but Goodrow will be here and playing too much.

 

[TheBeard]

"If you ignore our worst games from last season we're actually not that much better this season." Excellent point.

Orrrrrrr.... the team showed actual signs of improvement after a historically horrific start whereas this year the team hasn't.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Are we forgetting that Celebrini has quite literally single-handedly lost three OT games for us when Warsofsky started him in OT?

Kid is going to be a superstar. Right now, he's 18. I have no problem with not starting him in OT. I have lore of a problem with Graf over Eklund and Ferraro over Walman than I do Wennberg over Celebrini.

For all we know, they just started that way to win a faceoff and as soon as they had possession of the puck, the offensive unit was going on.

 

[Barrie22]

Are we forgetting that Celebrini has quite literally single-handedly lost three OT games for us when Warsofsky started him in OT?

Kid is going to be a superstar. Right now, he's 18. I have no problem with not starting him in OT. I have lore of a problem with Graf over Eklund and Ferraro over Walman than I do Wennberg over Celebrini.

For all we know, they just started that way to win a faceoff and as soon as they had possession of the puck, the offensive unit was going on.

But we had possesion of the puck and got it over into the opponent end. And they stayed out, not 1 changed after a minute long shift already by that point

 

[Juxtaposer]

But we had possesion of the puck and got it over into the opponent end. And they stayed out, not 1 changed after a minute long shift already by that point

Maybe that's on the players, then. Or I'm reading too deep into the tea leaves. Just speculation. But the point is that not starting Celebrini in OT isn't a fireable offense at this point in his career.

 

[TheBeard]

They literally won the face-off and had possession.

For all we know, they just started that way to win a faceoff and as soon as they had possession of the puck, the offensive unit was going on.

 

[coooldude]

I can understand Wennberg starting OT for the face-off alone, and I can understand leaving Celebrini on the bench for the second shift since he's been a bit too cavalier with the puck at 3v3 and has indeed cost us games in OT. I can't understand putting Graf out there and Ferraro out there.

Like I understand why you could argue it - Graf is a defensively responsible player with speed who PKs and Ferraro is high effort and not slow and defensively minded - but take one step back from that and it just looks terrible, and there's absolutely no evidence those players were going to have chemistry. Totally on board with Wennberg / Eklund / Walman, not at all with Graf/Ferraro.