GDT: Game 48: Columbus at Buffalo | 1/18 7PM EST

[major major]

I agree. It isn't that Umberger is playing bad. It is that he just isn't good enough to be on our first or second line and he makes too much money to be on any other line. Also, with Foligno on Johansen's line, we really don't need a player like Umberger. We need someone with more talent and ability to score off of plays/passes by Johansen.

This money critique I don't think has any affect on where he should play. I could be wrong but I don't think it has any bearing on what line he is on. And yes, if Foligno was a better finisher I would be a bit lessed concerned about the RW.

 

[Samkow]

When the board gets active enough to warrant 3 separate threads for a game, we'll have 3 separate threads for a game. As it stands now, what we have is fine.

 

[ca5150]

Very good pro/con evaluations of RJ, I can see both sides. Personally, I'd like to see Gaborik replace him on the Joey line. With how the other two lines are working, though, that leaves no place for Umby but the fourth line. Unlikely, considering how Richards plays him now. On the other hand, where else do you plug in Gabby?

Better problems than I'm used to for this team!

Honestly, I hope he comes back and lights it up, but I think we are looking at moving him at the deadline, only 4 games after the Olympic break so I hope he makes the Olympics and boosts his trade value. We have too many NHL level players if we ever get healthy, someone has to move. Does Tropp have a 2 way deal? Skille can go down, though he's played pretty well in limited minutes. Nice problems to have indeed!

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

Unless he some how takes away from team

Honestly, I hope he comes back and lights it up, but I think we are looking at moving him at the deadline, only 4 games after the Olympic break so I hope he makes the Olympics and boosts his trade value. We have too many NHL level players if we ever get healthy, someone has to move. Does Tropp have a 2 way deal? Skille can go down, though he's played pretty well in limited minutes. Nice problems to have indeed!

chemistry, I don't know how you don't look at getting Gabby back as a huge deadline upgrade for us. He brings speed and skill & honestly next to Joey he would finish some of those sick feeds. I'm also looking forward to Gabby on the powerplay with the addition of Horton we can really put some pressure on ST

Can someone explain to me the huge emphasis on coming back or getting healthy for the Olympics rather than trying to bet back for NHL team? I hear this being repeated and it kind of makes me wonder

 

[Crede777]

Can someone explain to me the huge emphasis on coming back or getting healthy for the Olympics rather than trying to bet back for NHL team? I hear this being repeated and it kind of makes me wonder

It's a very, very big thing for most hockey players. Huge honor, happens once every four years, etc. The NHL team is your day job while the Olympics are like a vacation of sorts. Also, while Americans and Canadians invest a lot of emphasis into the Olympics, it's absolutely insane in Europe. The Olympics and the FIFA world cup are like, the two biggest things for them in sports.

Knowing Richards, if/when Gaborik comes back we'll have the most spread out offense in the league. He won't break up 18-19-71 as that's his security blanket line and has been together for what, 2 years now? What I expect he'll do is put Gaborik on the 4th line with Letestu and Tropp/Mackenzie. Then he'll rotate partners in and out during games so we'll see any combination of forwards. His other options are to either move Jenner down and put Gaborik with Anisimov and Horton, OR to move down either Calvert or Atkinson (whichever isn't producing at the moment) and put Gaborik with Dubi.

I expect we'll see:
38 - 42 - 8
18 - 19 - 71
11 - 17 - 13
26 - 55 - 10
24

 

[SuperGenius]

RJ Umberger has been fine this year, but my god screening and playing hard on the walls is such a terrible, terrible defense for a player saying he has been good. Almost every non skilled guy not on the fourth line in the league does those things. If you want to make a case for RJ you can bring up the fact that he does tend to cause a lot of havoc around the red line which causes turnovers, and he does tend to make solid, safe, and accurate passes on a consistent basis. Where he does tend to suck is he is an awful finisher so far. He can't take a pass and make a shot cleanly. Overall though he fits this team and I see no reason for him not to be on this squad right now, but if there is two people on the team I'd like to see upgraded it would be he and Anisimov in the offseason.

I didn't say that playing hard on the walls and screening were his only attributes, I mentioned them as examples of things he does as well as anyone and how it has value on that line.

I'm not opposed to upgrading Umberger at some point, or any of a number of players - I don't however, believe that somehow RJ is why Joey doesn't have 10 more points or other such nonsense, particularly when the numbers don't show that he's the turnover machine people seem to think he is. Also, money aside, I really like the chemistry that line has and I struggle to understand why people want to mess with it.

 

[SuperGenius]

Very good pro/con evaluations of RJ, I can see both sides. Personally, I'd like to see Gaborik replace him on the Joey line. With how the other two lines are working, though, that leaves no place for Umby but the fourth line. Unlikely, considering how Richards plays him now. On the other hand, where else do you plug in Gabby?

Better problems than I'm used to for this team!

You said it, Pete. I like your idea of Gabby playing on that line, but I worry about the change in dynamics - Gabby is essentially a floater and I would also be concerned that Joey would defer to him too often as a scorer.

One thing's for sure, these are unfamiliar problems and discussions for this board...

 

[SuperGenius]

We are seeing mostly the same thing out there. Umberger plays a valuable role in puck pressure but is well below average with puck control. I think its not that hard to find a guy who can do both, and that would lead to a lot more possession and more goals for the line. You can also guess that the line would have more goals if not for Foligno's weak shot, but I think its damn hard to find a guy who can do everything else Foligno does.

I understand you, and maybe I was projecting a bit, clumping you with the usual <insert whipping boy here> haters.

I do completely disagree that his puck control is well below average. His numbers simply don't show that he handles the puck poorly. Maybe we're talking about different things, but he just doesn't turn it over that much and is a .5 PPG player. I'm sure there are better options, maybe even a couple under contract with this team, but he's not a terrible choice and his line is playing well. This is why I don't think you mess with it, frankly. I'm less worried with Joey finding 10 more points with a new face on the wing than I am keeping his production where it is - eg not losing production because they lose real chemistry while hoping that paper chemistry translates.

 

[Matt]

I think Gabby starts out on the 4th line. Will make it difficult for opposing teams to decide where to put their best defenders.

 

[pete goegan]

Can someone explain to me the huge emphasis on coming back or getting healthy for the Olympics rather than trying to bet back for NHL team? I hear this being repeated and it kind of makes me wonder

In our case, there's are several reasons for hoping Gaborik is healthy enough to play in the Olympics - it would allow for a better evaluation of his readiness to contribute here; provide a opportunity for him to more quickly reach game shape; and, should he play well, increase his potential return in a trade.

 

[ca5150]

chemistry, I don't know how you don't look at getting Gabby back as a huge deadline upgrade for us. He brings speed and skill & honestly next to Joey he would finish some of those sick feeds. I'm also looking forward to Gabby on the powerplay with the addition of Horton we can really put some pressure on ST

Can someone explain to me the huge emphasis on coming back or getting healthy for the Olympics rather than trying to bet back for NHL team? I hear this being repeated and it kind of makes me wonder

The reason I would like to see him back for the Olympics is because he can get his game legs and timing back in non-CBJ games and have a training camp of sorts. Rather than him coming back and needing a half dozen or more games to get his game shape back.

 

[ca5150]

It's a very, very big thing for most hockey players. Huge honor, happens once every four years, etc. The NHL team is your day job while the Olympics are like a vacation of sorts. Also, while Americans and Canadians invest a lot of emphasis into the Olympics, it's absolutely insane in Europe. The Olympics and the FIFA world cup are like, the two biggest things for them in sports.

Knowing Richards, if/when Gaborik comes back we'll have the most spread out offense in the league. He won't break up 18-19-71 as that's his security blanket line and has been together for what, 2 years now? What I expect he'll do is put Gaborik on the 4th line with Letestu and Tropp/Mackenzie. Then he'll rotate partners in and out during games so we'll see any combination of forwards. His other options are to either move Jenner down and put Gaborik with Anisimov and Horton, OR to move down either Calvert or Atkinson (whichever isn't producing at the moment) and put Gaborik with Dubi.

I expect we'll see:
38 - 42 - 8
18 - 19 - 71
11 - 17 - 13
26 - 55 - 10
24

I wouldn't sit DMac in favor or Tropp, personally

 

[Jackets16]

This money critique I don't think has any affect on where he should play. I could be wrong but I don't think it has any bearing on what line he is on. And yes, if Foligno was a better finisher I would be a bit lessed concerned about the RW.

I don't think you understood what I meant. I am saying, he makes too much money to keep if he is going to be playing on the 3rd or 4th lines.

 

[Jackets16]

chemistry, I don't know how you don't look at getting Gabby back as a huge deadline upgrade for us. He brings speed and skill & honestly next to Joey he would finish some of those sick feeds. I'm also looking forward to Gabby on the powerplay with the addition of Horton we can really put some pressure on ST

Can someone explain to me the huge emphasis on coming back or getting healthy for the Olympics rather than trying to bet back for NHL team? I hear this being repeated and it kind of makes me wonder

The biggest thing for me is he hasn't played a lot and thus needs to play in as many games as he can. If he can play in the Olympics that helps him and the team. Also, it could help his trade value as well.

 

[Jackets16]

In our case, there's are several reasons for hoping Gaborik is healthy enough to play in the Olympics - it would allow for a better evaluation of his readiness to contribute here; provide a opportunity for him to more quickly reach game shape; and, should he play well, increase his potential return in a trade.

I basically just said the same thing as I hadn't read your post yet. Sorry.

 

[major major]

I don't think you understood what I meant. I am saying, he makes too much money to keep if he is going to be playing on the 3rd or 4th lines.

Makes too much money to keep? He makes too much money to do anything but keep.

 

[pete goegan]

I wouldn't sit DMac in favor or Tropp, personally

I agree.

I basically just said the same thing as I hadn't read your post yet. Sorry.

Why not?

 

[EspenK]

Makes too much money to keep? He makes too much money to do anything but keep.

Trade him and retain some salary? Not my preferred choice but an option. Compliance buyout. Two options, not great but options.Third option is to hope some GM without salary cap concerns and with a team he would waive for makes an offer.

I think if he stays next season he goes to the Anisimov-Jenner line, with Horton moving up to play with Johansen. Salary will not determine where he plays.

 

[NotWendell]

The more the salary cap goes up, the less crappy this contract looks. I think it's more about opening up a roster spot for a guy with natural finishing ability.

 

[Samkow]

The more the salary cap goes up, the less crappy this contract looks.

True, but as time goes by, he's going to decline more and more. That contract will look just as crappy in 4 years as it does now.

 

[major major]

The more the salary cap goes up, the less crappy this contract looks. I think it's more about opening up a roster spot for a guy with natural finishing ability.

How'd this thread turn to a "should we dump Umby" conversation? I just don't think he belongs on Joey's wing, but he's not useless, and we've got plenty of cap space.

 

[NotWendell]

How'd this thread turn to a "should we dump Umby" conversation? I just don't think he belongs on Joey's wing, but he's not useless, and we've got plenty of cap space.

What we really need to do is trade Gabby (and maybe more) for a sniper on the left wing. Jussi Jokinen would be perfect on Joey's wing, but I can't see the Pens giving him up.

 

[Crede777]

What we really need to do is trade Gabby (and maybe more) for a sniper on the left wing. Jussi Jokinen would be perfect on Joey's wing, but I can't see the Pens giving him up.

What about Semin? Overpaid and flight risk, I know, but he might fit in with the other Russians. Doesn't match the team identity though.

 

[Jackets16]

I agree.



Why not?

What do you mean, why not?

 

[EDM]

You know, if you put a "sniper" on Joey's wing, it could mess up his whole game. He might start trying to pass and set up the sniper rather than being his own "sniper". Chemistry can be a funny thing. Right now it is working with Joey and Nick and RJ. Perhaps the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" cliche should apply here.