GDT: Game 45: Phoenix Coyotes @ Winnipeg Jets 1-13-14| 6PM | FSA +
- Thread starter ClassLessCoyote
- Start date
Again, you put better thoughts around our struggles than I was capable of last night. Agreed on most points.
Agreed - and I wasn't calling ya out. I've seen you put the ticket up a number of times. The drive must be terrible from Mesa. I'm near the Biltmore and its a struggle for the better half and I. By total luck I haven't missed a game this year, as my work travel schedule has been kind this winter.
Indeed.... Truth as always is somewhere in the middle.
You went a post without mentioning South Boston! Your posting is improving, perhaps the Yotes can improve their play.
I'm not quite ready to bash Yandle yet. He's had a rough stretch with awful turnovers, and Smith's random puck handling has only made it worse. But man, thank goodness we had him and Vermette during Doan's injury, because they were the only ones with a pulse out there.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
Yandle was playing the best hockey of his life after the snub but before the Calgary game. I thought it was just him trying too hard in front of Brian Burke. Unfortunately, he's been a nightmare in all of the games following, as well.
The Minnesota loss was devastating, but it was really just Smith's loss.
Getting blown out by the Ducks is embarrassing, but really kind of expected. Not exactly crushing.
That said, the way we played against Columbus, Philadelphia, and Winnipeg is the worst I've seen since Wayne Gretzky was behind the bench. So many passengers, so little heart, and save for one or three guys, no balls or pride, even.
If the trade market is truly dried up, we need to make internal changes.
The Minnesota loss was devastating, but it was really just Smith's loss.
Getting blown out by the Ducks is embarrassing, but really kind of expected. Not exactly crushing.
That said, the way we played against Columbus, Philadelphia, and Winnipeg is the worst I've seen since Wayne Gretzky was behind the bench. So many passengers, so little heart, and save for one or three guys, no balls or pride, even.
If the trade market is truly dried up, we need to make internal changes.
I'm a proud Southie Boy. Unlike a certain Player Who put the R's back in his words. And tries to forget where He came from. I bet if You ask Him He's forgotten what a Tonic and a Spuckie is.
Hahaha, excellent. Tell me was it exactly like the depahted? How'd you make it out (sorry I'm a california native, even my written fake boston accent is awful).
BUX7PHX
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Don't know if everyone has come off the ledge, but a couple of other things to think about:
- AndrewYotes had mentioned that there must be some sort of splintering or factions in the locker room. Doan was gone for a month. Outside of Doan, I truly believe that we have a pretty large lack of leadership out there. All we need to do is keep things together until the captain returns, and we look like we have regressed in the games since he came back. I don't know who, how, or why, but something is not right in the locker room, whether it is non-captains stepping on captain's toes, or vice versa.
- Review the tape to find every goal allowed to the Jets. Then go back to last year's team, and compare. We wanted to blame the short season for our defensive struggles. This looks much the same to how we functioned defensively last year. Isn't insanity defined as doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results? Too many shots given up, and too many quality shots given up. I know Playfair was here for the year that we made it to the WCF, but it appears that our defensive system has gotten worse through the players that we lost (specifically forwards, since we did not lose much on defense). Are we making small changes to the system that players aren't responding to/buying into? Or, is the defensive system and understanding too complicated? Is it an issue with Playfair?
- Lastly, there has not been a true sell out by any player this year. I'm talking about the going down to the ice when there is no other way to get in the way, and you know it is going to hurt to take a shot, or something of the like. Years past, we always had someone step up for the emotional lift. Plays like this spark the rest of the team to pick their game up. The sad thing is that the first guy on the bench that I would expect to actually follow through with that won't do it. He can't, b/c Tip would have to change to skates and pads in order to do so. As rt said, so many passengers...
- AndrewYotes had mentioned that there must be some sort of splintering or factions in the locker room. Doan was gone for a month. Outside of Doan, I truly believe that we have a pretty large lack of leadership out there. All we need to do is keep things together until the captain returns, and we look like we have regressed in the games since he came back. I don't know who, how, or why, but something is not right in the locker room, whether it is non-captains stepping on captain's toes, or vice versa.
- Review the tape to find every goal allowed to the Jets. Then go back to last year's team, and compare. We wanted to blame the short season for our defensive struggles. This looks much the same to how we functioned defensively last year. Isn't insanity defined as doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results? Too many shots given up, and too many quality shots given up. I know Playfair was here for the year that we made it to the WCF, but it appears that our defensive system has gotten worse through the players that we lost (specifically forwards, since we did not lose much on defense). Are we making small changes to the system that players aren't responding to/buying into? Or, is the defensive system and understanding too complicated? Is it an issue with Playfair?
- Lastly, there has not been a true sell out by any player this year. I'm talking about the going down to the ice when there is no other way to get in the way, and you know it is going to hurt to take a shot, or something of the like. Years past, we always had someone step up for the emotional lift. Plays like this spark the rest of the team to pick their game up. The sad thing is that the first guy on the bench that I would expect to actually follow through with that won't do it. He can't, b/c Tip would have to change to skates and pads in order to do so. As rt said, so many passengers...
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
I'd argue that Vermette and Murphy have had some of those moments. Overall, you're right though.
rt
Clean Hits on Substack
At this school did you happen to be the night custodian who would solve complex math problems anonymously? Was the money you married a brunette British woman about to graduate from Harvard and study at the Stanford University School of Medicine?
It's not your fault fallen. It's not your fault...
azcanuck
Registered User
Where is the evidence that there is some sort of splintering in the locker room. Purely hyperbole. We have one of the best captains in the NHL. I'm quite sure there is no leadership vacuum in the dressing room. This is the kind of garbage that gets floated around during a losing streak.
We have a defense that is very mobile and offensive. But lets face it , they get muscled off the puck in the D zone and always have been. The difference? Mike Smith used to bail them out and now he doesnt. Mike Smith is now Mike Smith from the TAmpa Bay Lightning. He doesnt have much confidence and is really fighting the puck. It's almost like he's trying too hard.
As for shot blocking. Again I disagree. this is a gritty group of players that lay it out there and block a lot of shots.
Our problem is we dont have a very talented team and when the goaltending is not top notch we get exposed.
We have a lot of second to 4th line players with Doan maybe being a top line type even at his advance age.
We are in big trouble this year and our chances of making the playoffs are slim to none. Lets see how this ownership group is committed to a winning team in the off season. Making trades now from a position of weakness is very difficult. I know we have Brandon Gormely in the minors and teams could be high on him.
Tom Polakis
Next expansion
I didn't think of that. Who is this season's Winnik, Fiddler, or Gordon? Closest player is Vermette.
BUX7PHX
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I was talking about leadership, in general. We know that Doan can lead. He was out for a month. I'm not certain how often he was around the team over that time (there were talks of him doing skates after practice, things like that). But we went from a team that appeared to have some stable sense of accountability in the locker room to none at all. Doan said it best in his interview yesterday - if you look around and don't think it's your fault, then there is no place for that here (that was the context that I took from it).
Second, if our defense was that mobile, we'd be performing better than we are. On paper, our D looked like one of the best in the NHL. Some players look much slower than they were in previous seasons. Some of that is due to injury. We have people that expect others to take the lead, a la the Smith and Yandle show on the first goal. We also have just too many mistakes and players watching the puck, instead of moving their feet.
If you think that our guys lay out and block shots, then you have not been watching much this year. Sure, we may block shots, but I am talking about those moments during the game where you can seize momentum back. You want to see an example of this? Watch the Ducks game when Anaheim was 2 men down. There was a point where the puck was behind the net, to the left of Hiller. I saw one Ducks player flat on his belly to take the pass to the top away. The two other Ducks converged and stayed low, sticks completely in passing lanes, ready if the puck was saucered over our player. We were down by 4 at that point (I think), with 2 men up for another 1:28 or so. You don't think that the Ducks team understood that they have to kill as much time off that clock? We got a goal in the 5-on-3, but with 30 seconds left for the 5-on-4, not 1:15. That's the type of desperation that I am talking about. Point out one game this year where our team has done that on the defensive end. We've had some things on offense (dives to keep possession, etc.), but not on defense.
We have as much talent as we did in 2011-12, and more than what we had in year's past. But talent is nothing without commitment. Once we commit ourselves to playing better defense and positioning ourselves better, the talent takes over, as we will produce more situations where we have the favorable matchup.
Vinny Boombatz
formerly ctwin22
Someone up in this thread had pointed out that we are in the top 10 in 5on5 and that is equivalent to past years experience, the difference this season is that Smith sucks and our PK is atrocious.
I think we're 28th in PK and Smith's save pct is below .910. If Smith is saving at .920 or better and our PK is middle of the pack, we would have 16 more pts than we do right now
The problem lies with Halpern and Moss. These are two guys that play PK a lot, but don't contribute anything offensively 5on5. We need a Gordon type that is going to be an effective PKer as well as someone who is going to be a plus player 5on5. Halpern is -10 and given his 5on5 minutes, that's our goal deficit in a nutshell.
It's on GMDM to get us 2 more bottom 6ers to replace Halpern/Chips. If you can't PK in the bottom six and your effort sucks and you provide no offense, then it's time for you to go. We need a complete revamp on the 4th line.
I think we're 28th in PK and Smith's save pct is below .910. If Smith is saving at .920 or better and our PK is middle of the pack, we would have 16 more pts than we do right now
The problem lies with Halpern and Moss. These are two guys that play PK a lot, but don't contribute anything offensively 5on5. We need a Gordon type that is going to be an effective PKer as well as someone who is going to be a plus player 5on5. Halpern is -10 and given his 5on5 minutes, that's our goal deficit in a nutshell.
It's on GMDM to get us 2 more bottom 6ers to replace Halpern/Chips. If you can't PK in the bottom six and your effort sucks and you provide no offense, then it's time for you to go. We need a complete revamp on the 4th line.
azcanuck
Registered User
I've watched every game this year and we are very good blocking shots. You simply cant point out one game and what the Ducks did to draw any conclusions like you do.
Our problems are not that we block enough shots. They cant block them all.
As for our D mobility and "moving their feet" is not the problem. We got some good/great skaters on the back end. They are just not very strong and get outmuscled too often. Throw in Yandle and the fact he's a turnover machine and it's not good. OUr balance is not right back there. We do have OEL which many teams do not. That's a very good thing but he cant do it all.
As for talent? Perhaps we are marginally better but goaltending is the biggest equalizer in hockey. Smith was terrific two years ago and that makes up for a lot of mistakes. Now his play is in the bottom one third of the league. That's a recipe for disaster on a team built like ours. We cant mount comebacks with no crosby types in our lineup.
BUX7PHX
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You're not understanding what I am saying about the blocking shots standpoint - maybe I shouldn't have referenced that but it was the easiest one to pick out as an example.
I am talking about the urgency and dedication of the team associated with the situation. The Ducks knew that momentum was preparing to swing back our way, especially b/c of the amount of time they would have to spend 2 men down. Imagine if we scored a goal on both of those PPs? Suddenly, it's a 5-3 game with 8 minutes left, but we made it a 5-3 game with about 50 seconds left. We have had NONE of that urgency, dedication, and desperation this year. As you said, we have gotten out-physicaled, which is similar to what I am saying here - when momentum is prepared to swing, you have to be prepared to swing back. Much like when we are getting out-muscled, we don't stand up to it. Next thing you know, Winnipeg is wearing us down and we have two separate times when the Jets offense was able to get about 5-6 shots off in a 90 second span.
You are right that our balance is not good on D. But if we were blocking more shots, then we wouldn't be 26th in the NHL in shots against, as less shots would be considered shots on goal (that, and we are giving up too many shots in general). Likewise, being a mobile defense, as you said, should be able to help us when we are out of position, as our mobility will help us reach pucks better. But, the truth of the matter is that we are less mobile, have awful positioning, and then also get out-muscled for the puck. Aucoin and Rozsival may not have been the greatest players out there, but they certainly would not be out-physicaled
azcanuck
Registered User
The reason we dont fight back is we dont have that kind of lineup. We have a soft team which is an MO of Tippett. He doesnt like fighting. But when you're behind you have to show some balls which we have very little. Take big Michael Stone. He had that big hit on the Jet and then immediatly looked like he wanted to jump into a hole in the ice knowing what's coming. Outside of Biz and Morris last nights lineup was soft, again Tippett's style.
As for having so many shots against and proof that we dont block that many it's simply ridiculous. We have a lot of shots against because we are getting outplayed game after game.
And your last point about us being "less mobile"??? We have a very mobile team and it would be very lead footed if you brought in Rozsival who along with Aucoion are way over the hill. Aucoin is retired too I believe. More mobile usually means less physical which the Coyotes defense is in spades.
BUX7PHX
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I agree, but you kind of switch topics here - is this about Smith performing better, or needing a Crosby type to mount a comeback?
We have shown that we can score. We have not shown that we can prevent scoring. Look at the goals from last night's game - the 4th goal was awful on Smith's part. But the remaining 4 goals? All came from between the circles. The only defense our goalie has is to do the best to prevent shots from going in. He can't control where those shots are coming from. That is for our defense to do.
Smith has played 223 more minutes than he did last year. He has seen 235 more shots than last year. In 2011-12, he had 2066 shots in 3903 minutes. He has played 2179 minutes this year and seen 1173 shots. About the same number of shots per minute (.538 vs .529). So why has his save percentage fallen? Quality of shots faced is the huge story.
