GDT: Game 35: Leafs @ Avalanche | Monday, Dec. 21st, 7PM MT | We're Going Streaking!

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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Mackinnon is the franchise player, you pay him what it takes. His performance isn't really relevant.

Berra needing an MRI isn't good news. Plus Guenin has to be out a week at least, I'm guessing that's protocol.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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Edmonton, Alberta
Mackinnon is the franchise player, you pay him what it takes. His performance isn't really relevant.

Berra needing an MRI isn't good news. Plus Guenin has to be out a week at least, I'm guessing that's protocol.

Not that I'm ever happy when a player is hurt but if this is what it takes to get Gormley inserted into the lineup instead of Guenin, so be it.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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The problem that I have with Mack and Grigs, is that Grigorenko plays a too safe of a game the kind where he doesn't wanna make a mistake. I think that would actually burden Mackinnon with his play, considering that he loves to do things, use his speed and shoot.

A few of Mack's best moments this season were with Grigo. As others have said they excell at the give and go together. Grigo would help MacK do something in the offensive zone. I'm not one that's completely clamoring for the Grigo top line business but I think he would help get MacK going.
 

Parks

Registered User
Dec 19, 2015
177
88
Colorado
A few of Mack's best moments this season were with Grigo. As others have said they excell at the give and go together. Grigo would help MacK do something in the offensive zone. I'm not one that's completely clamoring for the Grigo top line business but I think he would help get MacK going.

Grigo looks very good whenever he's paired up with skilled forwards. I'd love to see him off the 4th line with McCloud. Also would like to see Wagner back in the lineup.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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The only way I see the Mackinnon line working is if Tanguay gets to coast, while Mack and Skille deal with the hands-on offensive and defensive assignments. Leaving Tangs to get himself in position early on, with the breakout, or a good spot in the ozone where he could pass or even shoot.

With Iginla it'll basically be the same thing. He pinches early on, gets himself in a good spot to shoot, or help out in getting a physical presence for those 2.

We have those 2 for this season and while they're slow, they still do have some qualities that they bring into this team. We might as well use it.

The third I imagine as our shutdown line. Considering we'll be leaving with Landy-Dutch and Mack-Skille with a lot of assignments. They'll most likely make a mistake here and there. And this third line should make things easier for them.

It just doesn't work. The line becomes too disjointed because the old guy has to cheat to keep up or the other guys are thrown off by trying to slow themselves down enough not to leave the old guy behind. One of the great aspects of the winning streak was how much more compact the team played as a unit and a big part of that was matching paces across the lines. Plus the old guys need the lesser minutes that they can play on the third line, it's given Iggy in particular a good bit of pep in his step that just wasn't there earlier in the year when he was forced into the top 6. Leaving him where he is and giving Greg a shot at taking Tanguay's spot on the LW of that line is the way to go and I hope Roy doesn't over-react to this loss and undo one of the best things this winning streak has achieved...putting Iggy on Malkin's wing.

If we change things up I want:
Martinsen* - Soderberg - Duchene
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Comeau*
Tangs/Grigorenko - Malkin - Iginla
Cody - Grigorenko/Wagner - Skille

*try Comeau and Biffkaka with both Landy-MacK and Soda-Matt in practice and see which set of lines seems to fit better

Would let Roy ease 92-29's minutes til they get healthy/found their form and would let them simplify things for a little while on a line that could be really fast and really physical and could score some dirty goals for us. Plus it'd put our two best forwards (atm) together to see if they spark as well as it looked they would earlier in the year when they played together on the PP. Keeps the old guys and Malkin in the bottom 6 while giving a clear avenue for Greg to start getting some looks with some players he can actually feed when he earns a promotion; if he isn't ready to be trusted in the top 6. Just means Tangs either being moved at the TDL or Roy being ready to scratch Tangs after the deadline, at least intermittently, while also leaving him on the 4th line at times...aka the Briere route.

Not that I'm ever happy when a player is hurt but if this is what it takes to get Gormley inserted into the lineup instead of Guenin, so be it.

I'm scared of what all of the minutes Beauch and EJ are going to have to play is going to do too our old LHD's longevity; which was dubious to begin with. Gormley-Redmond are barely going to leave the bench.
 
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tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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It's really not going to get shaken up in a major way until there is an injury. Roy isn't going to put Martinsen on the 4th line or scratch an old guy. There's only so much that's going to happen within those parameters.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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It's really not going to get shaken up in a major way until there is an injury. Roy isn't going to put Martinsen on the 4th line or scratch an old guy. There's only so much that's going to happen within those parameters.

All I want is 1 change within the top 6 (swapping Matt and one of the yeti's wingers), and sporadically 1 change within the bottom 6 (swapping Greg and Tangs for a game or two intermittently)...Tangs wouldn't even necessarily have to sit as Skille could deputize at C for a game or two.

...At least until Mikko arrives/the TDL passes, but who knows what the top 6 will look like by then and where we'll be.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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Edmonton, Alberta
I'm scared of what all of the minutes Beauch and EJ are going to have to play is going to do too our old LHD's longevity; which was dubious to begin with. Gormley-Redmond are barely going to leave the bench.

True, I don't foresee Gormley-Redmond playing anything over 8 minutes. Well, maybe vs Arizona in order to allow Beauch-EJ easier minutes to rest them a tad bit for the next night against San Jose.

Also, I'm tired of seeing Landeskog play with MacKinnon. I think Landeskog is a good enough player that he can generate points to be a 55-65 point player on whatever line he's on, but I don't think he's the right winger for MacKinnon. He's a very simple offensive player, and it's no wonder his best offensive year came playing with Stastny. Soderberg is our new Stastny, I'd play them together.

Similarly, MacKinnon's best season came while playing with Stastny and Landeskog, but I attribute it a tad more to #26. Since Grigorenko has shown he can play LW, he's the one I want flanking MacK. Very similar player to Stastny with his offensive game, but he can play the wing. It just makes too much sense to me. It still gives us a bonafide 1st line with 25/29/09, and gives us a legitimate 2nd line which can shutdown other team's top lines by replacing Martinsen with Landeskog. Roy can give both of these lines 19-20 minutes per night, give the old boys club 12-13 minutes and give the 4th line 7-8 minutes
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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Landy may not need MacK for points. But MacK needs Landy to win the puck. Especially in his first season as a fulltime top C in the NHL, plus both could use a little easier workload and a general reset that playing on the "2nd" line with a physical winger would help them get back to their best.

And I have a hard time picturing Greg going straight up to the top 6 when he earns his promotion unless it's necessitated by injuries. Replacing Tangs alongside Malkin and Iggy is almost certainly going to be the next step for him...even if Rintintin ends up beating him to the punch on that one after his UFA clock can no longer be started this season.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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Landy may not need MacK for points. But MacK needs Landy to win the puck. Especially in his first season as a fulltime top C in the NHL, plus both could use a little easier workload and a general reset that playing on the "2nd" line with a physical winger would help them get back to their best.

And I have a hard time picturing Greg going straight up to the top 6 when he earns his promotion unless it's necessitated by injuries. Replacing Tangs alongside Malkin and Iggy is almost certainly going to be the next step for him...even if Rintintin ends up beating him to the punch on that one after his UFA clock can no longer be started this season.

I don't think we're going to see Grigorenko get promoted at all, especially for a veteran like Tanguay who Roy trusts very much. It's just what I'd do to get MacKinnon going.

The two games they played together alongside Duchene looked pretty good, it'd be the first thing I'd try if Roy plans to shake things up
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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I just don't see Tangs playing too much down the stretch. Be it a trade, more "maintenance days" and 4th line time, or a mysterious injury; Tanguay's spot should open up later in the season...unless he can turn back time like he did last year.
 

dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
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Edmonton, Alberta
I just don't see Tangs playing too much down the stretch. Be it a trade, more "maintenance days" and 4th line time, or a mysterious injury; Tanguay's spot should open up later in the season...unless he can turn back time like he did last year.

8 of the 10 games he's played since returning from injury have been 15+ minutes, with 2 of those games being 17+.

The only 2 games where he was below 15:
@ Minnesota (12:40)
vs Pittsburgh (14:24)

In fact, the only other game this season that Tanguay played below 15 minutes was against the Rangers the game he got hurt where he played 13:19. Every other game has been 15+, with 13 of his 24 games being 17+ minute games. Will he be given maintenance days? Maybe. But there isn't a shot in hell Tanguay is getting demoted to the 4th line
 

FALAPARK17

Colorado Avalanche
Jul 10, 2015
171
0
Winnipeg
A few of Mack's best moments this season were with Grigo. As others have said they excell at the give and go together. Grigo would help MacK do something in the offensive zone. I'm not one that's completely clamoring for the Grigo top line business but I think he would help get MacK going.

What I'm worried about with Grigorenko is how he would fare against teams like LA where he won't get to make the right plays and instead will have to grind it out.

With Skille, he's like Mackinnon in the way that he loves to shoot the puck and use his speed. Sure, I think he'll make a mistake here and there, but if put in the right I think they could succeed together.

But honestly, Mack-Skille would just be a temporary solution. At least until Mackinnon can simplify his game.
 
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dahrougem2

Registered User
Dec 9, 2011
39,423
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Edmonton, Alberta
What I'm worried about with Grigorenko is how he would fare against teams like LA where he won't get to make the right plays and instead will have to grind it out.

With Skille, he's like Mackinnon in the way that he loves to shoot the puck and use his speed. Sure, I think he'll make a mistake here and there, but if put in the right I think they could succeed together.

But honestly, Mack-Skille would just be a temporary solution. At least until Mackinnon can simplify his game to the point where he can be calm with the puck.

Skille has proven he can't handle more minutes. A big part of what makes him so valuable is that he doesn't play any more than 8-9 minutes per game because it allows him the ability to go all out, balls to the wall every shift. He can't handle a bigger role.

A smart player will always be able to make the right play. Just because L.A. is big and like to hit doesn't mean Grigorenko will all of a sudden lose his smarts. If anything, it'll come in handy against a team like that because making the smart play is better than making the panic play.
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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8 of the 10 games he's played since returning from injury have been 15+ minutes, with 2 of those games being 17+.

The only 2 games where he was below 15:
@ Minnesota (12:40)
vs Pittsburgh (14:24)

In fact, the only other game this season that Tanguay played below 15 minutes was against the Rangers the game he got hurt where he played 13:19. Every other game has been 15+, with 13 of his 24 games being 17+ minute games. Will he be given maintenance days? Maybe. But there isn't a shot in hell Tanguay is getting demoted to the 4th line

Yes, and once the TDL has come and gone we'll now if that's going to change.
 

StLAvsFan

Registered User
Feb 8, 2015
1,395
913
Mackinnon is the franchise player, you pay him what it takes. His performance isn't really relevant.

Berra needing an MRI isn't good news. Plus Guenin has to be out a week at least, I'm guessing that's protocol.

MacKinnon's performance the past 2+ seasons is absolutely relevant in terms of length & monetary amount of a contract extension. I'll not deny, I'd like to see him be an Av for a long, long time too, but I think the jury is still out on whether he'll actually be a franchise player. Sometimes I have my doubts.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,192
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Denver
burgundy-review.com
MacKinnon's performance the past 2+ seasons is absolutely relevant in terms of length & monetary amount of a contract extension. I'll not deny, I'd like to see him be an Av for a long, long time too, but I think the jury is still out on whether he'll actually be a franchise player. Sometimes I have my doubts.

It's not up to you or me, it's up to the folks offering him the contract.
 

Cousin Eddie

You Serious Clark?
Nov 3, 2006
40,201
37,463
Hope Guenin is ok. My stomach gets weak at the thoughts of concussions because of my past. He is our worst player though so I'm curious to see who gets called up, if anyone.
 

Bubba Thudd

is getting banned
Jul 19, 2005
24,571
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Avaland
Jesus, they were tied going into the third period. What's with all this they got cocky ****, really? A team not currently in the playoffs is going to get cocky? It's like every loss everyone can just make up whatever **** they want.

Pretty much. People perceive things differently. What appears as 'made up ****' to one person, is reality to another. It's what happens on a discussion forum, with people from all walks of life participating.
 

falconski

Unregistered User
Jan 21, 2008
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I didn't get to watch the game, what happened to Guenin? (got the score alert he left the game)
 

StLAvsFan

Registered User
Feb 8, 2015
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It's not up to you or me, it's up to the folks offering him the contract.

I agree with you. The point I'm really trying to make here is the very real uncertainty about whether MacKinnon will ever become the offensive star we like to think he is. It's hard to predict too, coz as good as Mack can be on some nights, he can look God-awful for long stretches as well.
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
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I agree with you. The point I'm really trying to make here is the very real uncertainty about whether MacKinnon will ever become the offensive star we like to think he is. It's hard to predict too, coz as good as Mack can be on some nights, he can look God-awful for long stretches as well.

Tyler Seguin went through the exact same things. They are growing pains for a kid still trying to figure out the game.
 

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