GDT: GAME 23 | Senators Ride into the City of Angels | Sat Nov 30 2024, 7PM | SN1, TVAS

[Emrasie]

As it should be. Good teams have multiple players like that. You can count on to be good or decent basically no matter what.

We have 1.

The rest are not only non factors when they’re off, they’re legitimate detriments to the teams when they’re off

Yeah it's why he is the only player untradeable of this team from my point of view.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The only good move Staois has made is Jensen, which was a fluke. We all thought we got a poor return on the trade. Ullmark has been underwhelming all year.

Perron, Cousins, Gregor, and Amadio have all been AHL-caliber.

Believing JBD, Kleven, and Hamonic can consistently anchor the bottom pairing duties was a big mistake.

The biggest disaster has been Pinto who I don't even recognize as the same player.

I guess you can say Green is a breath of fresh air, but where is the accountability? So many passengers game in and game out.

I blame Staois for this mess.

And one of the missions of the offseason was gaining more cap flexibility…. Sorry but if you needed flexibility 6+ million to amadio and Perron is not it. That is not a wise use of your money

Running with Kleven, JBD and Hamonic as 5, 6, 7 was a mistake for sure. One of them had to be upgraded in case there were injuries. Oh well.

No money left he had to pay amadio and Perron

 

[thinkwild]

Is this satire?

I'm not saying dont trade anyone. But the idea that a rebuild is the better and quicker option im not persuaded by

 

[Blotto71]

What had to change, right now, to give fans a sense that this can be recovered? That this core can take a meaningful step and make the playoffs?

I'd like to see a public dressing down of the team, but my sense is the egos in that room are far to fragile and it would just further exasperate the situation. Same goes for trading a member of the core - those that could be dealt for a decent return won't be and if they were it would just further damage the psyches of those remaining. Maybe Batherson gets dealt (I don't think he's the problem)?

Staios isn't going anywhere. Green isn't going anywhere. Yeo and Alfie aren't likely to be thrown under the bus. There's no point scapegoating Baumgartner. I'd let Peters and the whole goalie coaching department go RFN - they've done nothing to improve the performance of goaltenders at any level of the organization.

Waive Cousins, Amadio, and Perron (realistically, none of the 3 are going to return anything)? Send Greig and Kleven (waiver exempt?) to Bellville (is JBD still waiver exempt?)?

Dunno what has to change for this team to be successful in any meaningful way, but I do know something has to change. I might settle at this point for a player in their post game being upset and owning - really owning - the fact that they were not ready to play! Hamonic (of all people) started to go there last night but then his interview devolved into stammering and actual f***ing head scratching! I guess he was maybe embarrassed? Brady just offered the same bullshit he said he wouldn't offer anymore, with a shoulder shrug and another "put it behind us" platitude.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I dont really accept that the options are status quo or a rebuild. We can also just continue to get better and not give up. A couple draft picks like Yak and another forward, a free agent signing, another trade, is more likely to bring success than the despair of giving up for a rebuild because we as fans are sick of waiting. That 2020 draft was a key one, cant give up on that this early just because the magic beans didnt sprout as fast as hoped.

If the star players had found a groove and played as we hoped, i think all the support players would have looked like genius moves. But now they are getting the blame.

We are pretty close. Its hard. We still need more talent. Let the building continue

I don't agree that we're close. I think we're firmly stuck right in the middle of the league; land of mediocrity. But I agree with everything else you wrote.
Tearing everything down is not the answer. And making a short term splashy Dorion like move is also not the way.
My opinion: we need to be patient and continue building through the draft. Maybe we hit on a player or players that have the hunger and passion that we're missing.
This will take years and in the meantime, we'll be stuck in mediocrity but I don't see any other way.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Our top CF% forwards last night. Good for them but ... we need the top 2 lines to lead the way
I cannot believe the no show from the captain in this one. Stutzle and Batherson are the two top 6 guys we should keep. Tkachuk can be a warrior but he looked like he has quit last night. He probably bounces back but he played terrible and with very little will.

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Zack Ostapchuk	C	10:07	12	6	66.67	18.99	8	5	61.54	14.99	4	4	50.00	2.78	0	0	-	-	0.46	0.26	63.87	16.62	5	2	71.43	25.27	2	1	66.67	23.81	0	3	0	12	-	1	5	0	100.00
Shane Pinto	C	12:03	16	9	64.00	17.16	7	8	46.67	-3.33	5	5	50.00	2.94	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.21	0.31	40.58	-11.46	8	4	66.67	22.55	3	1	75.00	36.54	2	3	2	11	50.00	3	3	4	42.86
Michael Amadio	R	12:52	15	9	62.50	15.00	9	8	52.94	4.79	7	5	58.33	14.58	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.37	0.31	54.01	4.33	8	4	66.67	22.55	4	1	80.00	46.67	2	3	2	12	50.00	4	4	4	50.00
Ridly Greig	C	12:04	12	8	60.00	11.19	7	7	50.00	0.88	3	5	37.50	-12.50	0	0	-	-	0.39	0.37	51.86	1.76	5	3	62.50	15.13	2	2	50.00	3.85	1	4	0	13	100.00	1	5	0	100.00
Cole Reinhardt	L	11:01	14	10	58.33	9.58	7	9	43.75	-7.16	6	6	50.00	3.13	0	2	0.00	-66.67	0.35	0.6	36.87	-18.10	9	6	60.00	14.84	4	2	66.67	30.30	2	2	2	12	50.00	3	3	4	42.86

Top 2 D Corsi wise were Chabot and JBD

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Thomas Chabot	D	18:13	28	13	68.29	28.61	15	7	68.18	27.37	7	5	58.33	14.58	2	1	66.67	66.67	1.13	0.14	88.69	57.55	16	2	88.89	63.89	6	1	85.71	65.71	4	2	0	17	100.00	7	4	0	100.00
Jacob Bernard-Docker	D	12:40	15	8	65.22	18.30	9	3	75.00	30.93	6	3	66.67	23.81	1	1	50.00	16.67	0.52	0.2	72.24	26.95	8	1	88.89	48.35	5	1	83.33	56.06	1	2	0	16	100.00	3	2	0	100.00

Our supposed 3rd pairing D Nick Jenson led the way with 5v5 TOI 21:07 and 4v5 PK TOI 3:07.

 

[PlayOn]

What had to change, right now, to give fans a sense that this can be recovered? That this core can take a meaningful step and make the playoffs?

I'd like to see a public dressing down of the team, but my sense is the egos in that room are far to fragile and it would just further exasperate the situation. Same goes for trading a member of the core - those that could be dealt for a decent return won't be and if they were it would just further damage the psyches of those remaining. Maybe Batherson gets dealt (I don't think he's the problem)?

Staios isn't going anywhere. Green isn't going anywhere. Yeo and Alfie aren't likely to be thrown under the bus. There's no point scapegoating Baumgartner. I'd let Peters and the whole goalie coaching department go RFN - they've done nothing to improve the performance of goaltenders at any level of the organization.

Waive Cousins, Amadio, and Perron (realistically, none of the 3 are going to return anything)? Send Greig and Kleven (waiver exempt?) to Bellville (is JBD still waiver exempt?)?

Dunno what has to change for this team to be successful in any meaningful way, but I do know something has to change. I might settle at this point for a player in their post game being upset and owning - really owning - the fact that they were not ready to play! Hamonic (of all people) started to go there last night but then his interview devolved into stammering and actual f***ing head scratching! I guess he was maybe embarrassed? Brady just offered the same bullshit he said he wouldn't offer anymore, with a shoulder shrug and another "put it behind us" platitude.

In truth I did not think last night’s game was a disaster. I also don’t really think it’s a big deal they lost, which is probably an unpopular opinion. LA is very good at home, they gave us very little and it was a decent game. Shot themselves in the foot in the third but what’s new.

The reality is if they win tonight that’s 4/6 points in California which anyone would have taken. If they lose tonight it’s more of the same. All the teams that fight for wild card spots are like this, they win a couple, lose a couple. But we put ourselves in a hole when we lost 5 in a row.

Sens need to start by winning tonight. They need to beat teams they are chasing like Detroit this week. I think the rebuild/retool talks are just an acknowledgement we may not have what it takes to string together the wins needed. Certainly we don’t with Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto playing the way they have.

To answer your question - what has to change is the Sens have to show the ability to string some wins together during this stretch where they have a decent string of opponents. It’s not about what they say anymore or waiving people. They have to win enough games to stop the ensuing panic every time they lose a game.

 

[Emrasie]

Before trading any core piece i wish we could see them play under the coaching of a really good coach, a capable one.
But is the timeline good to do that? As Staios will surely not have the courage to fire Green during the season.

 

[Relapsing]

Is this satire?

I'm pretty sure it's the early signs of insanity

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Our top CF% forwards last night. Good for them but ... we need the top 2 lines to lead the way
I cannot believe the no show from the captain in this one. Stutzle and Batherson are the two top 6 guys we should keep. Tkachuk can be a warrior but he looked like he has quit last night. He probably bounces back but he played terrible and with very little will.

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Zack Ostapchuk	C	10:07	12	6	66.67	18.99	8	5	61.54	14.99	4	4	50.00	2.78	0	0	-	-	0.46	0.26	63.87	16.62	5	2	71.43	25.27	2	1	66.67	23.81	0	3	0	12	-	1	5	0	100.00
Shane Pinto	C	12:03	16	9	64.00	17.16	7	8	46.67	-3.33	5	5	50.00	2.94	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.21	0.31	40.58	-11.46	8	4	66.67	22.55	3	1	75.00	36.54	2	3	2	11	50.00	3	3	4	42.86
Michael Amadio	R	12:52	15	9	62.50	15.00	9	8	52.94	4.79	7	5	58.33	14.58	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.37	0.31	54.01	4.33	8	4	66.67	22.55	4	1	80.00	46.67	2	3	2	12	50.00	4	4	4	50.00
Ridly Greig	C	12:04	12	8	60.00	11.19	7	7	50.00	0.88	3	5	37.50	-12.50	0	0	-	-	0.39	0.37	51.86	1.76	5	3	62.50	15.13	2	2	50.00	3.85	1	4	0	13	100.00	1	5	0	100.00
Cole Reinhardt	L	11:01	14	10	58.33	9.58	7	9	43.75	-7.16	6	6	50.00	3.13	0	2	0.00	-66.67	0.35	0.6	36.87	-18.10	9	6	60.00	14.84	4	2	66.67	30.30	2	2	2	12	50.00	3	3	4	42.86

Top 2 D Corsi wise were Chabot and JBD

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Thomas Chabot	D	18:13	28	13	68.29	28.61	15	7	68.18	27.37	7	5	58.33	14.58	2	1	66.67	66.67	1.13	0.14	88.69	57.55	16	2	88.89	63.89	6	1	85.71	65.71	4	2	0	17	100.00	7	4	0	100.00
Jacob Bernard-Docker	D	12:40	15	8	65.22	18.30	9	3	75.00	30.93	6	3	66.67	23.81	1	1	50.00	16.67	0.52	0.2	72.24	26.95	8	1	88.89	48.35	5	1	83.33	56.06	1	2	0	16	100.00	3	2	0	100.00

Our supposed 3rd pairing D Nick Jenson led the way with 5v5 TOI 21:07 and 4v5 PK TOI 3:07.

Yeah pinto up there does not match the eye test. He was terrible

 

[The Waffler]

Win tonight and they’ve won 3 of their last 4. Less grim, I’d say.

 

[Cosmix]

I dont really accept that the options are status quo or a rebuild. We can also just continue to get better and not give up. A couple draft picks like Yak and another forward, a free agent signing, another trade, is more likely to bring success than the despair of giving up for a rebuild because we as fans are sick of waiting. That 2020 draft was a key one, cant give up on that this early just because the magic beans didnt sprout as fast as hoped.

If the star players had found a groove and played as we hoped, i think all the support players would have looked like genius moves. But now they are getting the blame.

We are pretty close. Its hard. We still need more talent. Let the building continue

I tend to agree with you. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater (not Batherson).

The current roster players I would like to retain are:
Tkachuk, Stutzle, Sanderson, Ullmark (I think Ullmark is a VG goaltender) & Kleven (decent future potential).

Those I want to dump asap are:
Amadio, Perron, Cousins, MacEwen, Hamonic, Bernard-Docker

The rest would be made available for trade, provided that we get a fair return. Those I would retain if the trade offers are poor are:
Norris (injury prone), Pinto (not impressed), Batherson (runs hot/cold), Greig (bottom 6 player), Giroux (due to age), Gaudette (seems to be a pure scorer), Chabot (cost vs value), Jensen (due to age), Zub (injury prone)

Yak will help in the future so he would not be available for trade.

 

[Cosmix]

Running with Kleven, JBD and Hamonic as 5, 6, 7 was a mistake for sure. One of them had to be upgraded in case there were injuries. Oh well.

Patience Paduan! Screw Patience!

The only good move Staois has made is Jensen, which was a fluke. We all thought we got a poor return on the trade. Ullmark has been underwhelming all year.

Perron, Cousins, Gregor, and Amadio have all been AHL-caliber.

Believing JBD, Kleven, and Hamonic can consistently anchor the bottom pairing duties was a big mistake.

The biggest disaster has been Pinto who I don't even recognize as the same player.

I guess you can say Green is a breath of fresh air, but where is the accountability? So many passengers game in and game out.

I blame Staois for this mess.

Green deserves a slice of the blame pie too. As does Andlauer!

Yes, Jensen has turned out better than I expected. Gaudette was a decent acquisition off waivers too. I still hope Ullmark can get back into form; he did play very well against San Jose.

 

[Big Muddy]

Our top CF% forwards last night. Good for them but ... we need the top 2 lines to lead the way
I cannot believe the no show from the captain in this one. Stutzle and Batherson are the two top 6 guys we should keep. Tkachuk can be a warrior but he looked like he has quit last night. He probably bounces back but he played terrible and with very little will.

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Zack Ostapchuk	C	10:07	12	6	66.67	18.99	8	5	61.54	14.99	4	4	50.00	2.78	0	0	-	-	0.46	0.26	63.87	16.62	5	2	71.43	25.27	2	1	66.67	23.81	0	3	0	12	-	1	5	0	100.00
Shane Pinto	C	12:03	16	9	64.00	17.16	7	8	46.67	-3.33	5	5	50.00	2.94	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.21	0.31	40.58	-11.46	8	4	66.67	22.55	3	1	75.00	36.54	2	3	2	11	50.00	3	3	4	42.86
Michael Amadio	R	12:52	15	9	62.50	15.00	9	8	52.94	4.79	7	5	58.33	14.58	0	1	0.00	-50.00	0.37	0.31	54.01	4.33	8	4	66.67	22.55	4	1	80.00	46.67	2	3	2	12	50.00	4	4	4	50.00
Ridly Greig	C	12:04	12	8	60.00	11.19	7	7	50.00	0.88	3	5	37.50	-12.50	0	0	-	-	0.39	0.37	51.86	1.76	5	3	62.50	15.13	2	2	50.00	3.85	1	4	0	13	100.00	1	5	0	100.00
Cole Reinhardt	L	11:01	14	10	58.33	9.58	7	9	43.75	-7.16	6	6	50.00	3.13	0	2	0.00	-66.67	0.35	0.6	36.87	-18.10	9	6	60.00	14.84	4	2	66.67	30.30	2	2	2	12	50.00	3	3	4	42.86

Top 2 D Corsi wise were Chabot and JBD

Player	Position	TOI	CF	CA	CF%	CF% Rel	FF	FA	FF%	FF% Rel	SF	SA	SF%	SF% Rel	GF	GA	GF%	GF% Rel	xGF	xGA	xGF%	xGF% Rel	SCF	SCA	SCF%	SCF% Rel	HDCF	HDCA	HDCF%	HDCF% Rel	Off. Zone Shift Starts	Neu. Zone Shift Starts	Def. Zone Shift Starts	On the Fly Shift Starts	Off. Zone Shift Start %	Off. Zone Faceoffs	Neu. Zone Faceoffs	Def. Zone Faceoffs	Off. Zone Faceoff %
Thomas Chabot	D	18:13	28	13	68.29	28.61	15	7	68.18	27.37	7	5	58.33	14.58	2	1	66.67	66.67	1.13	0.14	88.69	57.55	16	2	88.89	63.89	6	1	85.71	65.71	4	2	0	17	100.00	7	4	0	100.00
Jacob Bernard-Docker	D	12:40	15	8	65.22	18.30	9	3	75.00	30.93	6	3	66.67	23.81	1	1	50.00	16.67	0.52	0.2	72.24	26.95	8	1	88.89	48.35	5	1	83.33	56.06	1	2	0	16	100.00	3	2	0	100.00

Our supposed 3rd pairing D Nick Jenson led the way with 5v5 TOI 21:07 and 4v5 PK TOI 3:07.

Column headings are so dark that you can’t read them - at least on my machine.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yeah pinto up there does not match the eye test. He was terrible

Playing with Reinhart and Amadio

Column headings are so dark that you can’t read them - at least on my machine.

copy and pasted from NST you can look it up there if interested.

I can change the colour here but 1 column at a time so .. no go

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Playing with Reinhart and Amadio

copy and pasted from NST you can look it up there if interested.

I can change the colour here but 1 column at a time so .. no go

Honestly feel most for Reinhardt in that line lol

 

[Sensrule]

I keep telling myself we'll turn it around next game, but I'm start to lose hope. Yeah it's still early; but this team can't get it done on a consistent basis. Even in the two wins, we got a boatload of PPs against the Flames and we got heavily outplayed against the Sharks.

I know we have a game tonight against the Ducks tonight, but the game against the Wings on Tuesday will tell us A LOT about this team if we didn't have a clear picture of our Sens already.

 

[Big Muddy]

Playing with Reinhart and Amadio

copy and pasted from NST you can look it up there if interested.

I can change the colour here but 1 column at a time so .. no go

Yes, I figured the problem was created at the source. I wasn’t blaming you. Just pointing it out.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Yes, I figured the problem was created at the source. I wasn’t blaming you. Just pointing it out.

I looked at it and tried saw what it took to fix it. I can see it on my screen

 

[Big Muddy]

I looked at it and tried saw what it took to fix it. I can see it on my screen

Column headings are dark blue on my screen. Text is black, so you can’t distinguish the text from the background. I’ll look at it on NaturalStatTrick if I get a chance. Watching NFL games at the moment though.

Stats were “interesting” with some surprises. Some samples are below (stat leaders):

CF%: Chabot 68.29, Ostapchuk 66.67, JBD 65.22, Pinto 64.00, Amadio 62.50
GF% Tkachuk 100.00, Chabot 66.67, Stutzle 66.67, Gaudette 50.00, Batherson 50.00, JBD 50.00
xGF% Chabot 88.69, JBD 72.24, Giroux 71.36, Norris 65.21, Ostapchuk 63.87
xGA: Chabot .14, JBD .2, Giroux .26, Ostapchuk .26, Amadio .31, Pinto .31

 

[Big Muddy]

I dont really accept that the options are status quo or a rebuild. We can also just continue to get better and not give up. A couple draft picks like Yak and another forward, a free agent signing, another trade, is more likely to bring success than the despair of giving up for a rebuild because we as fans are sick of waiting. That 2020 draft was a key one, cant give up on that this early just because the magic beans didnt sprout as fast as hoped.

If the star players had found a groove and played as we hoped, i think all the support players would have looked like genius moves. But now they are getting the blame.

We are pretty close. Its hard. We still need more talent. Let the building continue

Don’t think a lot of people that are hollering for a rebuild will be all that patient. The summer of Pierre wasn’t very long ago and I remember people being jubilant then instead of preaching to continue rebuilding.

There’s going to be a lot of mind numbing trade proposals now. Some will be unrealistic i.e., the team would never accept what we are offering. Look at the return that Jiricek got for the Jackets. And others will just focus on making the cap numbers work without making the team any better.

It's going to be a wild ride.

 

[darude]

I think if the team doesn't make the playoffs this year they have to reexamine the core guys and actually have a different look next year.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

So we are going to re-tool with no picks or prospects quickly. Got it. Have to know when to hold em vs fold em. This core had potential but if it can’t get across the finish line the prospect and draft capital we have is absolute garbage. Too bad for our new owner that we have no way no way out to this mess.

Or enlighten me, who do we trade to be competitive in 5 years or less. Even a half educated fan like myself can see this team is written off if Brady, Stu, Ullmark, Sandy can’t get us there. We have no away out than starting FYOUS from scorched earth

Scorched Earth rebuilds fail more often than not anyways, so it's not a fool proof plan either. They sure are in a tough spot after what looks to be 7 straight lost seasons.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think if the team doesn't make the playoffs this year they have to reexamine the core guys and actually have a different look next year.

Definitely. Simply running it back would be insane. I don't know if I could tune in if that were the plan.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Can anyone explain pinto here. Anyone. What the f*** is he doing.