GDT: Game 2: Sharks vs. Ducks 7:00pm NBCSSharks

[Pinkfloyd]

Totally disagree. You have two defensemen and two forwards in your sight, you play the trailer. Thrun is not playing two on one, what? He was on the wall. He has a partner next to him, they play man to man. Benning could have read that Smith overcommitted and picked up the trailer but that's reacting to a mistake. No way that you would coach that play to expect Zetterlund to catch up on that backcheck.

It doesn't really matter. The thing Smith needs to figure out is not getting knocked off the puck or knocked down easily and playing faster without the puck. And he should learn that in the NHL. for now.

Depends on the spacing and speed of the rush. Remember, this is a tie game. They need to both slow down the rush and look to create an outman situation to force a turnover. Backchecking forwards hunting the puck carrier is the correct read for Smith. Thrun looks like he's not committed to any sort of defensive play given the space he afforded the puck carrier on the breakout. Thrun could've attacked that puck carrier inside their own blue line. He also could've closed more time and space in the neutral zone on the puck carrier but didn't. He waited until his backchecking forward could help him out at their blue line. I think Benning overcommitted himself and it cost him. That play does carry with it the risk of having one guy beat two. That's what Benning needs to prepare for and he did so by trying to shut down the pass to McGinn but he got beat mostly because he wasn't in a good defensive position for that either.

 

[timorous me]

I really hope smith has a Hatty in the next game so I can eat crow and the send down/keep up debate can die

But see, this is the problem--you're not keeping expectations realistic. The idea of success for someone like Smith shouldn't be dependent on him putting up big points or anything like that at this stage.

Of course no one's going to complain if he does that, but I'm glad the team seems aware that this is the kind of development that requires patience. I know you want the team to be competitive as soon as possible, but the reality is that this team is not competing for a playoff spot this year, whether you like it or not, and that means that for as long as it seems to be paying dividends of some sort (big picture--long game development), they can keep giving Smith games at center in the NHL.

 

[sampler]

But see, this is the problem--you're not keeping expectations realistic. The idea of success for someone like Smith shouldn't be dependent on him putting up big points or anything like that at this stage.

Of course no one's going to complain if he does that, but I'm glad the team seems aware that this is the kind of development that requires patience. I know you want the team to be competitive as soon as possible, but the reality is that this team is not competing for a playoff spot this year, whether you like it or not, and that means that for as long as it seems to be paying dividends of some sort (big picture--long game development), they can keep giving Smith games at center in the NHL.

I totally understand your point and the idea of patience and lowering expectations. In all honesty, I dont expect him to light it up, but I do expect him to look like he clearly belongs. To my eyes, he doesnt. Nevertheless, I get the argument that the NHL is where he can learn those details.

However, by that logic, why not have cagnoni, thompson, cardwell, and graf in the NHL too? Throw in Bystedt and haltunnen too? After all, if just getting NHL experience is the goal, and playing in the NHL is better for development than the AHL regardless of NHL readiness or the actual result of the NHL game, then why not?

The answer is obviously that playing in the NHL, when not ready, is not preferred and not best for development, and losing at the NHL level, while sometimes inevitable, is also not acceptable.

The big Smith question is: Does he belong in the NHL right now? If you think he belongs right now and will prove it shortly (2 games not enough), then he should indeed stay. If you think he's not ready right now, then hes better served playing #1 mins with the cuda.

Sounds like most on this board think hes pretty much ready now. But, the argument that he's not ready but should stay anyways for development is one I strongly disagree with, as that argument could be used for half the cuda kids.

 

[CHALUPA]

However, by that logic, why not have cagnoni, thompson, cardwell, and graf in the NHL too? Throw in Bystedt and haltunnen too? After all, if just getting NHL experience is the goal, and playing in the NHL is better for development than the AHL regardless of NHL readiness or the actual result of the NHL game, then why not?

The answer is obviously that playing in the NHL, when not ready, is not preferred and not best for development, and losing at the NHL level, while sometimes inevitable, is also not acceptable.

This was debated in the roster discussion thread. Dunno how everyone feels about it, but I agree with one of the points from that thread where you can’t have too many rookies. It’s better for their development to have a strong veteran presence.

The big Smith question is: Does he belong in the NHL right now? If you think he belongs right now and will prove it shortly (2 games not enough), then he should indeed stay. If you think he's not ready right now, then hes better served playing #1 mins with the cuda.

Sounds like most on this board think hes pretty much ready now. But, the argument that he's not ready but should stay anyways for development is one I strongly disagree with, as that argument could be used for half the cuda kids.

I don’t think he’s ready right now, but I think that it’s worth letting him develop in the NHL surrounded by our vets and Warsofsky’s coaching staff. It is a perfectly reasonable opinion to say that he’d be better served being the guy on our Cuda team, even though I disagree with it.

 

[Anomie2029]

I actually thought Smith looked better than the first game and I see no reason to move him. He has the skill and IQ to play NHL, but he is taking time to get up to speed. This isn't something that is developed in the AHL (IMO).

The goal against was a result of some poor communication, which is a team issue. I don't think it's one of those goals where you point at one specific player as being the problem. Smith, Thrun, Benning and Zetterlund could have played it better IMO. But it's hockey - it happens.

But then again, I also thought Gushchin should have been replacing Celebrini in the top six and not Kostin. I thought Gushchin looked good in the first game - playing responsibly with the puck, working hard away from the puck (his backcheck is fantastic), with the only blemish being the penalty in the third, but I don't think it's anything to really be too hard on.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

What’s the threshold on smiths contract in terms of games played before they burn a year

 

[Barrie22]

What’s the threshold on smiths contract in terms of games played before they burn a year

Disregard the 0, thought ncaa players didn't have sliding contracts. Its the same 9 games.

 

[timorous me]

I totally understand your point and the idea of patience and lowering expectations. In all honesty, I dont expect him to light it up, but I do expect him to look like he clearly belongs. To my eyes, he doesnt. Nevertheless, I get the argument that the NHL is where he can learn those details.

However, by that logic, why not have cagnoni, thompson, cardwell, and graf in the NHL too? Throw in Bystedt and haltunnen too? After all, if just getting NHL experience is the goal, and playing in the NHL is better for development than the AHL regardless of NHL readiness or the actual result of the NHL game, then why not?

The answer is obviously that playing in the NHL, when not ready, is not preferred and not best for development, and losing at the NHL level, while sometimes inevitable, is also not acceptable.

The big Smith question is: Does he belong in the NHL right now? If you think he belongs right now and will prove it shortly (2 games not enough), then he should indeed stay. If you think he's not ready right now, then hes better served playing #1 mins with the cuda.

Sounds like most on this board think hes pretty much ready now. But, the argument that he's not ready but should stay anyways for development is one I strongly disagree with, as that argument could be used for half the cuda kids.

Expecting him to look like he clearly belongs is still setting the expectations too high. How many 19-year-olds playing center (or defense) look that way, especially at the start?

There's just so much going on, so many responsibilities--there are nights that any rookie that age is going to struggle. Hell, look at Eklund last year when he was put in at center. 2.5 years older than Smith, already with a decent amount of NHL experience, and playing center was a whole different beast.

Could those other guys also be playing in the NHL? Sure--but not a single one of them has the pedigree of Smith or the upside of Smith. That's just how it is. And they all have things to learn and benefit from in the AHL. You can say Smith does, but we're talking about the #4 overall pick here, and as long as the Sharks see him growing and developing at this level, and in this role, he's going to stay there.

I don't know that most of us here would even say Smith looks ready now. I see him as someone who, considering his pedigree and upside, looks decent enough to be getting this opportunity. Sometimes guys learn on the job. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't--there are all sorts of stories of development for NHL players. Whatever Smith's story is, the biggest mistake would be expecting too much right now--or expecting his development to be a straight line.

 

[stator]

You guys are ragging on Smith who doesn't have the benefit of playing with a half-way decent NHL blueline (except for Ceci)?

Of course, Benning would be in the mix on a defensive screw up.

Vanecek played good last night, I was impressed.

Wasn't impressed with the coaching staff getting this team prepared for the game, except for the PK. This is game the Tiburons should have won.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

Disregard the 0, thought ncaa players didn't have sliding contracts. It’s the same 9 games.

That’s what I thought I doubt Grier will be put in that position to send him down but just in case and I think smith will get going around game 10-15 I figure by game 5 Warf will figure it out and put smith on the 3rd line

 

[Anomie2029]

I don't think the slide occurs if he's put in the AHL though. He would need to go to Juniors.
He can't go back to NCAA.

 

[karltonian]

Wasn't impressed with the coaching staff getting this team prepared for the game, except for the PK. This is game the Tiburons should have won.

While they certainly haven't been ahead of the game, it is still so early in these young players careers that they need to just get games in to even see where they are at. So I think everyone deserves more games before any real judgments are made.

 

[Juxtaposer]

William Eklund had 2 points in his first 11 games last year.

 

[timorous me]

William Eklund had 2 points in his first 11 games last year.

And Smith had what, one power play shift last night? And that's on a unit that due to lineup changes no longer included Eklund or Gushchin, his two most skilled supporting players on that unit.

 

[LilLeeroy]

I don't think the slide occurs if he's put in the AHL though. He would need to go to Juniors.
He can't go back to NCAA.

He signed the contract this summer, and he doesn't turn 20 on the December of the year he signs his ELC (he doesn't) it slides if he plays less than 10 games. Sharks aren't going to do this though because if he waited until the end of his season at BC and signed that would have burned a year off his ELC.

Sharks aren't going to screw him because he was willing to sign early, that wouldn't be a good look.

 

[Juxtaposer]

And Smith had what, one power play shift last night? And that's on a unit that due to lineup changes no longer included Eklund or Gushchin, his two most skilled supporting players on that unit.

Another good point. Both of Eklund's 2 points in his first 11 games last year were on the PP.

I thought we were all in agreement that we were going to be normal about this being a developmental season from Smith. Clearly, I was wrong.

 

[LilLeeroy]

And Smith had what, one power play shift last night? And that's on a unit that due to lineup changes no longer included Eklund or Gushchin, his two most skilled supporting players on that unit.

He didn't get a single second of PP time. Don't really mind if he is on the 2nd unit until the deadline and gets bumped up after possible Granlund/Zetterlund trades.

Just feels a bit wasteful since running the PP is the thing he is best at.

 

[coooldude]

Depends on the spacing and speed of the rush. Remember, this is a tie game. They need to both slow down the rush and look to create an outman situation to force a turnover. Backchecking forwards hunting the puck carrier is the correct read for Smith. Thrun looks like he's not committed to any sort of defensive play given the space he afforded the puck carrier on the breakout. Thrun could've attacked that puck carrier inside their own blue line. He also could've closed more time and space in the neutral zone on the puck carrier but didn't. He waited until his backchecking forward could help him out at their blue line. I think Benning overcommitted himself and it cost him. That play does carry with it the risk of having one guy beat two. That's what Benning needs to prepare for and he did so by trying to shut down the pass to McGinn but he got beat mostly because he wasn't in a good defensive position for that either.

Doesn't matter how many times you describe your view of the play, I totally disagree with it. If Thrun isn't gapping up, it's not the center's responsibility to support unless there's adequate backchecking support, which there wasn't. He should stick to his man, the third man. Instead everyone got sucked to the puck. I know I'm not changing your mind either so I think it's best to just let it go.

 

[Bizz]

Patrick Marleau wasn't lighting the NHL on fire his first season either.

Smith will be fine.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Doesn't matter how many times you describe your view of the play, I totally disagree with it. If Thrun isn't gapping up, it's not the center's responsibility to support unless there's adequate backchecking support, which there wasn't. He should stick to his man, the third man. Instead everyone got sucked to the puck. I know I'm not changing your mind either so I think it's best to just let it go.

Except that it absolutely is their responsibility and no amount of wishing that isn't so will change that it is. It's the center's responsibility in that spot to go after the puck carrier and the defensemen's responsibility to manage their two off-puck players.

 

[coooldude]

Except that it absolutely is their responsibility and no amount of wishing that isn't so will change that it is. It's the center's responsibility in that spot to go after the puck carrier and the defensemen's responsibility to manage their two off-puck players.

I completely disagree with you. I know from long history you won't let it go so feel free to have the last word but no amount of your opinion is going to change mine. You aren't factually correct. I'm apparently the only one willing to admit that part (that neither of us is factually correct).

 

[DG93]

I thought we were all in agreement that we were going to be normal about this being a developmental season from Smith. Clearly, I was wrong.

That lasted all of 1 week of preseason lmao...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I completely disagree with you. I know from long history you won't let it go so feel free to have the last word but no amount of your opinion is going to change mine. You aren't factually correct. I'm apparently the only one willing to admit that part (that neither of us is factually correct).

I know you do but you're not presenting any sort of plausible alternative explanations for this play. You're just disagreeing for the sake of it. I never said I was factually correct. Don't start playing the martyr because of a disagreement. What Smith did was far from out of the norm for defensive play in that situation and you just disagree with that for some reason. I don't think playing the trailer in that spot is at all Smith's play or the correct play. You've yet to give a compelling reason why it would be.

 

[Beethovens 10th]

Smith is a tough one, reflecting on what’s been “on tap” so far this season.

We could be patient, and except that there will be growing pains with a 19 year old surrounded by replacement level forwards and AHL defensemen.

Or we could recognize that 2 games (plus pre-season which is barley even junior Sharks caliber hockey) is all the sample size we need, and that by the EYE TEST, it’s clear to any one paying attention that:

WILL

SMITH

IS

USING


Musty got to him. Brutal.

Maybe we can flip him for “future considerations.”


(*insert sarcasm emoji for clarifying context to remarks)

 

[tahoesharksfan]

0-1-1 pretty much sums up what I've seen so far....

Still lots of positive things to look forward to this season!