GDT: Game 2: Sharks vs. Ducks 7:00pm NBCSSharks

[TheBeard]

Smith earned it by being #4 overall and leading the NCAA in scoring. Smith is a far better bet to come through than Goose. He'll develop in the NHL. Deal with it.

Being #4 pick and leading NCAA earns you more opportunities than most, but when you’re a teenager rookie you should still be treated as someone who has to earn every game whether by improving or showing smart acumen. Showing the occasional flash of why you were drafted so high isn’t enough. This is the NHL. Everyone drafted has earned the right to have an opportunity.

 

[one2gamble]

Being #4 pick and leading NCAA earns you more opportunities than most, but when you’re a teenager rookie you should still be treated as someone who has to earn every game whether by improving or showing smart acumen. Showing the occasional flash of why you were drafted so high isn’t enough. This is the NHL. Everyone drafted has earned the right to have an opportunity.

It's been two games

If he's working on what the staff is asking and steadily improving. He's fine.

 

[mogambomoroo]

I think Smith needs couple of more games before any talks about AHL and maybe even a cup of coffee at PP1 to get a real opportunity to show his offensive abilities.
PP1 has looked good these two games, I wonder if it could help Smith a lot with some space to cook. He hasn't deserved it yet, but I wouldn't mind trying him out there for more self confidence.

Smith is learning and has a lot of pressure, so it's normal that he is not a threat yet. He will be a lot better once he gets his first point or two.

 

[Shark Finn]

This team has sucked for years and now after a couple of games into a season some are in panic mode regarding the rookies. I know people are yearning for the team to compete again, but reading this crap over and over is getting rather tiresome.

 

[OrrNumber4]

It'll be interesting to see how the coaching staff adjusts after this game. Kostin should be benched...he took an unnecessary penalty and was a net negative on the ice. But, I wonder if the coaches actually like his punch on Vatrano and keep him in...

 

[TheBeard]

It's been two games

If he's working on what the staff is asking and steadily improving. He's fine.

I’m not saying do anything now. Let him work out his kinks but if he’s still having his struggles by thanksgiving then it wouldn’t be the end of the world to give him some time in the AHL knowing what he needs to focus on.

 

[Bizz]

Will Smith is the least of the Sharks' issues right now.

 

[sampler]

I’m sure smith will be ok. He will get some points if he’s given top 6 linemates and ice time.

The debate here is just whether the AHL or NHL is the best place for him to develop. No one is panicking.

I would be thrilled watch smith take off shortly and to be proven dead wrong. I just think gushkin and Cardwell are more nhl ready, especially gush. So I want to see the 21/22 year old guys with a year of pro experience under their belts get the nhl look. Smith will surely be an nhl regular in time but I think those mins would be better spent on the guys more nhl ready now and guys who are more up in the air.

 

[Barrie22]

I’m sure smith will be ok. He will get some points if he’s given top 6 linemates and ice time.

The debate here is just whether the AHL or NHL is the best place for him to develop. No one is panicking.

I would be thrilled watch smith take off shortly and to be proven dead wrong. I just think gushkin and Cardwell are more nhl ready, especially gush. So I want to see the 21/22 year old guys with a year of pro experience under their belts get the nhl look. Smith will surely be an nhl regular in time but I think those mins would be better spent on the guys more nhl ready now and guys who are more up in the air.

Oh yes those extra 5 games makes such a huge difference in experience. I like gushchin on the team but other then that one game in preseason game he has not been better then smith at the nhl level.

 

[TheBeard]

Oh yes those extra 5 games makes such a huge difference in experience. I like gushchin on the team but other then that one game in preseason game he has not been better then smith at the nhl level.

Goose was solid in his limited games last year. I don't see this need to undercut what he did last year with a couple games.

 

[Barrie22]

Goose was solid in his limited games last year. I don't see this need to undercut what he did last year with a couple games.

And so has smith through 2 games. This entire conversation is mental, as this team doesn't get better or worse if you remove smith and keep gushchin in the lineup. But it does get worse by taking smith out of the lineup and replacing him full time with the other choices outside of gushchin (which is the actual ones replacing smith).

 

[one2gamble]

I’m not saying do anything now. Let him work out his kinks but if he’s still having his struggles by thanksgiving then it wouldn’t be the end of the world to give him some time in the AHL knowing what he needs to focus on.

I think it's more like Christmas but yea

 

[weastern bias]

If anything I think the mistake the team is making with Smith is not giving him PP1 time, he needs those reps and that is where he is most likely to find his groove early on, it is hard to justify playing him there over any one of Toffoli, Granlund, Zetterlund or Eklund but I have maintained that his development is far more important than wins this season so they should definitely have him up there

I did manage to catch most of the 2nd half of the game and Smith just gets incrementally better every game, he's coming along, it's just going to take time some fans aren't willing to wait for because we wasted 3 years postponing the rebuild so we're all tired of losing but this is for the best

If there is any one thing to single out about him as a glaring negative it is that he isn't just easily muscled off the puck, he loses possession and gets stripped and falls over at the slightest hint of contact, and that just won't fly in this league, but that's one of his hard-learned lessons this year and over next offseason he'll have to commit to his physical conditioning, he's already way bigger this year than he was last year so I believe he can do it

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You should. Check out the goal simulation, these are super cool. It's a 3 on 3 and Smith locks onto the puck carrier from way across the ice. Since that happens Benning could have shaded right to keep the trailer in front of him but it risks giving up a 2 on 1 with a good pass. Because Smith didn't pick up the trailer and Benning stayed man to man on the second forward, it became a clean partial break.

Smith and Benning combined for the wrong play, but it's mostly Smith's fault because it was clearly his responsibility to take the trailer in a 3 on 3 situation.

I kind of like them

It's a 3 on 3 but Smith's responsibility is to attack the puck carrier because Thrun isn't on the puck carrier. He's playing a 2-on-1 but he overcommits to the puck carrier instead of shading back to the middle. If they're to play it any other way, it's on the defensemen to communicate that to Smith as a rookie.

I do blame Smith for the goal but it shouldn't affect his spot in the lineup. He was above Lundeström in the neutral zone then inexplicably skated over to chase the puck carrier who Thrun was already covering.

One, Thrun wasn't already covering him. He was playing off because he's reading two-on-one at the blue line. Two, the typical ask of a backchecking forward is to attack the puck carrier and have the defensemen rotate. Thrun didn't play the middle enough in that situation and Benning didn't either. The other thing is that if they're going to play that any differently, it's up to the defensemen to communicate that to Smith as a rookie in his second game. That sort of backchecking to attack the puck carrier on a 3 on 3 is very normal.

 

[hohosaregood]

You should. Check out the goal simulation, these are super cool. It's a 3 on 3 and Smith locks onto the puck carrier from way across the ice. Since that happens Benning could have shaded right to keep the trailer in front of him but it risks giving up a 2 on 1 with a good pass. Because Smith didn't pick up the trailer and Benning stayed man to man on the second forward, it became a clean partial break.

Smith and Benning combined for the wrong play, but it's mostly Smith's fault because it was clearly his responsibility to take the trailer in a 3 on 3 situation.

I kind of like them

I'd say like 3 people played that wrong in the end by not sorting/adapting coverage. Like Smith could've taken any of the 3 forwards on that rush and it would've made sense depending on execution. The smart move would've been to cover the trailer, the reasonable but not that helpful one probably would've been to stay on top of the guy he was tracking back with, and I bet taking the puck carrier on the back check is something the coaches have been wanting but Smith needs to get on him quicker.

 

[coooldude]

It's a 3 on 3 but Smith's responsibility is to attack the puck carrier because Thrun isn't on the puck carrier. He's playing a 2-on-1 but he overcommits to the puck carrier instead of shading back to the middle. If they're to play it any other way, it's on the defensemen to communicate that to Smith as a rookie.

One, Thrun wasn't already covering him. He was playing off because he's reading two-on-one at the blue line. Two, the typical ask of a backchecking forward is to attack the puck carrier and have the defensemen rotate. Thrun didn't play the middle enough in that situation and Benning didn't either. The other thing is that if they're going to play that any differently, it's up to the defensemen to communicate that to Smith as a rookie in his second game. That sort of backchecking to attack the puck carrier on a 3 on 3 is very normal.

Totally disagree. You have two defensemen and two forwards in your sight, you play the trailer. Thrun is not playing two on one, what? He was on the wall. He has a partner next to him, they play man to man. Benning could have read that Smith overcommitted and picked up the trailer but that's reacting to a mistake. No way that you would coach that play to expect Zetterlund to catch up on that backcheck.

It doesn't really matter. The thing Smith needs to figure out is not getting knocked off the puck or knocked down easily and playing faster without the puck. And he should learn that in the NHL. for now.

 

[TheBeard]

And so has smith through 2 games. This entire conversation is mental, as this team doesn't get better or worse if you remove smith and keep gushchin in the lineup. But it does get worse by taking smith out of the lineup and replacing him full time with the other choices outside of gushchin (which is the actual ones replacing smith).

I don’t know if the lineup gets worse with him out of the lineup, but it doesn’t serve a purpose right now not playing him when we’re not trying to win. He’s playing now strictly for development and experience not because he immediately makes the team better. He will eventually though which is why you play him through this and evaluate down the road what is the best plan of action.

 

[sampler]

I don’t know if the lineup gets worse with him out of the lineup, but it doesn’t serve a purpose right now not playing him when we’re not trying to win. He’s playing now strictly for development and experience not because he immediately makes the team better. He will eventually though which is why you play him through this and evaluate down the road what is the best plan of action.

Not trying to win?? This is the most toxic sentence I’ve read here. We’re not willing to trade future assets to win now perhaps, but any team that has a culture where it’s ok to lose and we aren’t trying to win is doomed to suck forever. Even when the kids get better.

Never. Ever. Should an nhl team be ok with losing or give significant ice time to lesser players. Yes, some teams are more in position to win now and trade assets to do so while others are rebuilding, but people pay a lot of money to watch pros try to win every game.

This means you ice the best lineup possible. Maybe that includes smith and maybe not. That’s debatable. But if you think he’s not ready for the nhl yet then playing him over someone who is currently better defies meritocracy and defies what people pay to watch. Smith, like any player, should have to earn their ice by being better than the guys who don’t play.

I am tired of the whole “who cares if we lose” mentality. I loved DW because he never, in over 20 years, accepted losing. I don’t go to games to watch guys not care if they lose.

Our best lineup may lose most games but I expect to watch that best lineup not kids who don’t belong yet (imo) and I expect that lineup who work their tails off. I expect a coach that maximizes what he’s got. Aside from gush and smith, I think Warsofsky has done that. I just want to see him do it fully…

 

[CHALUPA]

Overwhelming opinion coming into this season was that the highest priority for this year was developing Celebrini and Smith. We knew they would struggle but talking about sending Smith down after two games in the season is crazy, to me. If we think he can develop more effectively when surrounded by NHL players and coaching staff, then it’s not a bad decision to keep him up even if he’s struggling.

I can’t help but feel that Celebrini exceeded expectations, so some posters are overreacting to Smith meeting his (or even slightly underperforming). Celebrini is an entire tier higher of a prospect, so him looking at home on NHL ice (albeit with a one game sample size) is a rare occurrence.

TLDR:
Smith is 19, we knew he would need to adjust and it’s been 2 whole games in a year we don’t need wins.

 

[karltonian]

I think, for now, Smith would be better served playing on the 3rd line with Goodrow and Kunin. Some vet presence with ultimate hustle will do him good.

He should get sent down rather than this.

I think Smith should work out the kinks in the NHL but baby Eklund looked a fair amount better in his first 9 than Smith has so far.

As a wing. He wasn't too great as a center either.

 

[CHALUPA]

Not trying to win?? This is the most toxic sentence I’ve read here. We’re not willing to trade future assets to win now perhaps, but any team that has a culture where it’s ok to lose and we aren’t trying to win is doomed to suck forever. Even when the kids get better.

Never. Ever. Should an nhl team be ok with losing or give significant ice time to lesser players. Yes, some teams are more in position to win now and trade assets to do so while others are rebuilding, but people pay a lot of money to watch pros try to win every game.

This means you ice the best lineup possible. Maybe that includes smith and maybe not. That’s debatable. But if you think he’s not ready for the nhl yet then playing him over someone who is currently better defies meritocracy and defies what people pay to watch. Smith, like any player, should have to earn their ice by being better than the guys who don’t play.

I am tired of the whole “who cares if we lose” mentality. I loved DW because he never, in over 20 years, accepted losing. I don’t go to games to watch guys not care if they lose.

Our best lineup may lose most games but I expect to watch that best lineup not kids who don’t belong yet (imo) and I expect that lineup who work their tails off. I expect a coach that maximizes what he’s got. Aside from gush and smith, I think Warsofsky has done that. I just want to see him do it fully…

This feels like a massive overreaction. The team obviously wants to win, which is what matters. The macro goal for the season is not to win the cup, as evidenced by how we’ve built the roster. It’s to develop our new core centered around Celebrini and Smith.

If we feel that Smith will develop better in the NHL, then we should play him. We have no idea if he’ll be able to adjust after just 2 games.

 

[weastern bias]

Not trying to win?? This is the most toxic sentence I’ve read here. We’re not willing to trade future assets to win now perhaps, but any team that has a culture where it’s ok to lose and we aren’t trying to win is doomed to suck forever. Even when the kids get better.

Never. Ever. Should an nhl team be ok with losing or give significant ice time to lesser players. Yes, some teams are more in position to win now and trade assets to do so while others are rebuilding, but people pay a lot of money to watch pros try to win every game.

This means you ice the best lineup possible. Maybe that includes smith and maybe not. That’s debatable. But if you think he’s not ready for the nhl yet then playing him over someone who is currently better defies meritocracy and defies what people pay to watch. Smith, like any player, should have to earn their ice by being better than the guys who don’t play.

I am tired of the whole “who cares if we lose” mentality. I loved DW because he never, in over 20 years, accepted losing. I don’t go to games to watch guys not care if they lose.

Our best lineup may lose most games but I expect to watch that best lineup not kids who don’t belong yet (imo) and I expect that lineup who work their tails off. I expect a coach that maximizes what he’s got. Aside from gush and smith, I think Warsofsky has done that. I just want to see him do it fully…

DW DID accept losing in every one of the 2020, 2021 and 2022 seasons, he just pretended it wasn't happening and it's the biggest reasons we're this terrible now, he didn't do anything to proactively set us up for future success

It's naive to believe teams don't lose on purpose, especially coming off the heels of the 2024 Sharks season, it's literally what we did all of last year

Sports are not some contest of morality, it's all about maximizing your opportunity to win at the highest level, and the combination of the salary cap and entry draft systems dictate that at a certain point in a team's lifecycle it is most advantageous to lose on purpose to horde talent, there's nothing wrong with that, were in the first "build" year of this rebuild, last year was the tank

The Beard isn't insinuating that we should still be tanking, rather than wins this year are not nearly as important as it is to set our prospects up to develop properly so we are actually winning lots of games in their prime, it's just smart team building, almost every cup winner since the lockout built off the strength of a tank job and prospect development

 

[TheBeard]

Not trying to win?? This is the most toxic sentence I’ve read here. We’re not willing to trade future assets to win now perhaps, but any team that has a culture where it’s ok to lose and we aren’t trying to win is doomed to suck forever. Even when the kids get better.

Fine, the priority isn’t to win hence the lineup being put out there isn’t maximized to give us our best opportunity to win, better?

This means you ice the best lineup possible.

Problem with this statement is best lineup long term or immediate, because if you want the best lineup immediate then Smith probably isn’t in it and he never will unless you give him experience and time to develop. There always has to be a sacrifice when it comes to nurturing prospects. Very few come in and immediately pay dividends. You can’t have it both ways. If you fail to plan then plan to fail.

 

[Jargon]

He should get sent down rather than this.


As a wing. He wasn't too great as a center either.

True! I expect Smith to get some more games at center with different linemates and then if that doesn’t work I can see them trying him on wing, particularly when Celebrini comes back.

Again though, he’s genuinely getting a bit better every game - everyone was worried about him in college in the first few weeks and then… well, we saw what happened.