GDT: Game 19: Sharks @ Penguins 4:00pm NBCSCA

[Zarzh]

Put Toff W/ Celly, Smith. Lund line stays together. Wenn centers 3rd line W/Delly & Grund/?. Kunin, Goody, Sturm line 4

Not good enough at retrievals, board battles, or forechecking and doesn't have much of a netfront presence.

 

[Hodge]

The lines from this game were fine. Only change I'd make is Givani Smith in for Kostin.

 

[Anomie2029]

I think once Mario is slotted back into the bottom 3 he’ll be fine and become a sought after asset he’s just being put in positions where he’s going to fail 50% of the time, it also seems like he’s trying to do to much, kind of like the line in top gun maverick “don’t think do” would probably help him

I'm finding this excuse becoming weaker and weaker. As noted earlier, he is being played less than previous seasons and he is actively worse. The reality is that even as a third pair doesn't magically not come up against quality opposition. It may not seem as bad simply because there would be less opportunity for him to demonstrate how bad he is (i.e. it's limiting the damage).

I would also argue he doesn't think atm. A lot of his problems are because he gets caught puck chasing, joining the rush, pinching at the wrong times, and generally showing a complete lack of awareness. Not thinking himself into trouble.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I'm finding this excuse becoming weaker and weaker. As noted earlier, he is being played less than previous seasons and he is actively worse. The reality is that even as a third pair doesn't magically not come up against quality opposition. It may not seem as bad simply because there would be less opportunity for him to demonstrate how bad he is (i.e. it's limiting the damage).

I would also argue he doesn't think atm. A lot of his problems are because he gets caught puck chasing, joining the rush, pinching at the wrong times, and generally showing a complete lack of awareness. Not thinking himself into trouble.

He’s literally been out there against the top 2 lines of opposing teams when he should be out there against 3/4 lines.
Im by no means saying he’s great because he’s not. I don’t think fans are actually assessing the match ups he’s getting put in. I hope Muk can actually plays soon so Mario can slot back into where he should be.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The lines from this game were fine. Only change I'd make is Givani Smith in for Kostin.

If Sturm is still looking out for the game tonight, they should put him on IR and call up Graf or Gushchin.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Because we don't have 10 good offensive players on our squad.


Cause we wear ourselves out in our own zone and are constantly needing line changes

On a PP, I'll take:

1. Granny
2. Eklund
3. Zetterlund
4. Celebrini
5. Toffoli
6. Wennberg
7. Smith
8. Kunin
9. Walman
10. Liljegren
11. Thompson
12. You
13. Me

 

[coooldude]

He’s literally been out there against the top 2 lines of opposing teams when he should be out there against 3/4 lines.
Im by no means saying he’s great because he’s not. I don’t think fans are actually assessing the match ups he’s getting put in. I hope Muk can actually plays soon so Mario can slot back into where he should be.

I wanted to just address the Ferraro strength of opponents point.

Here's a kind of hard-to-read chart that shows Ferraro is essentially being used as a defensive 2nd pairing.

• His teammate forwards avg about 16min ice time, below Lily, Ceci, and Walman. Lily is being used as an offensive matchup guy -- he gets OZ starts against worse players, with the Sharks' best forwards.
• Ferraro's D partners avg about 20 minutes - but not 21-22+, which is Ceci/Walman (de facto 1st pair)
• Ferraro's opponent forwards avg ~15.7min ice time, below Ceci and Walman and just above Lily. He's not being asked to take the very hardest minutes, he's being asked to take the 3rd hardest minutes. His opposing D men average over 20min / night, which, again, is 3rd, below Lily and Ceci.

And there are any number of charts showing that Ferraro is one of the league's worst in advanced stats as he plays this role.

I still think the guy could be a perfectly fine 3LD on a competitive team, but he needs a partner who can move the puck and he needs to reign in his most chaotic "DO SOMETHING!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!" instincts.

(edit) and here's from Evolving-Hockey, which caveat is just one of the many GAR/WAR/etc. models, showing he's having a pretty rough time of it in the past 3 seasons. xGAR has been very negative.

 

[hohosaregood]

I wanted to just address the Ferraro strength of opponents point.

Here's a kind of hard-to-read chart that shows Ferraro is essentially being used as a defensive 2nd pairing.

• His teammate forwards avg about 16min ice time, below Lily, Ceci, and Walman. Lily is being used as an offensive matchup guy -- he gets OZ starts against worse players, with the Sharks' best forwards.
• Ferraro's D partners avg about 20 minutes - but not 21-22+, which is Ceci/Walman (de facto 1st pair)
• Ferraro's opponent forwards avg ~15.7min ice time, below Ceci and Walman and just above Lily. He's not being asked to take the very hardest minutes, he's being asked to take the 3rd hardest minutes. His opposing D men average over 20min / night, which, again, is 3rd, below Lily and Ceci.

And there are any number of charts showing that Ferraro is one of the league's worst in advanced stats as he plays this role.

I still think the guy could be a perfectly fine 3LD on a competitive team, but he needs a partner who can move the puck and he needs to reign in his most chaotic "DO SOMETHING!!! ANYTHING!!!!!!" instincts.

Since we're sharing hard to read graphs, here's the individual breakdowns. The red line is the league % of ice time average per forward/dmen down a depth chart. The bars are the % of ice time average of teammates/competition, with the red portion of the bar being the player's individual % of ice time average.

So like Walman is usually our #1/#2 dman, plays with our top 5 forwards more often than average, and facese off against top comp more than average. So ferraro is usually our #3/4 but sometimes #2 and plays against a pretty even distribution of competition. And there's Thompson who's % of icetime is #5/6 on the team usually but plays a little more with our top forwards and rarely plays against top competition.

 

[Barrie22]

So no matter which charts you read and look at, Ferraro is no where near the top pairing and usually used around a #4 defensemen (where his salary is on average league wide), so no matter what he is either not an nhl player at this point or he is closer to a 6th or 7th defensemen on a good team.

 

[coooldude]

Since we're sharing hard to read graphs, here's the individual breakdowns. The red line is the league % of ice time average per forward/dmen down a depth chart. The bars are the % of ice time average of teammates/competition, with the red portion of the bar being the player's individual % of ice time average.

So like Walman is usually our #1/#2 dman, plays with our top 5 forwards more often than average, and facese off against top comp more than average. So ferraro is usually our #3/4 but sometimes #2 and plays against a pretty even distribution of competition. And there's Thompson who's % of icetime is #5/6 on the team usually but plays a little more with our top forwards and rarely plays against top competition.

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Lots of rich info but definitely hard to read well explained. I kind of skimmed these ones but next time I'll pay more attention.

 

[hohosaregood]

Lots of rich info but definitely hard to read well explained. I kind of skimmed these ones but next time I'll pay more attention.

hockeyviz is my favorite of the hockey stat stuff since it's presented pretty objectively but it totally feels like i'm reading hieroglyphs trying to interpret them. hope he figures a way to track zone entry data, that's the only thing i think he's missing.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd move Ferraro for literally anything at this stage but it's also just not the biggest of deals. He does have admirable qualities with his motor and his personality but it's pretty undeniable that he's addition by subtraction.