GDT: Game 19: Sharks @ Penguins 4:00pm NBCSCA

[BaileyMacTavish]

HockeyStatCards (@hockeystatcards.com)

#NHL GameScore Impact Card for San Jose Sharks on 2024-11-16: #SJSharks

bsky.app

didn't see it on the twitter side of things. ferraro continues to be concerning.

Posted it on bsky, but I'll just say it here as well. Mario Ferraro is a hockey terrorist. He drags down every pairing he's been on and it's baffling he's still getting almost 20 minutes a night despite being horrendous

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

A little worried that the line will have a very hard time in the defensive zone. Celebrini is responsible but he’s still learning and Smith and Toffoli aren’t exactly the fastest/most defensively responsible.

Assuming Full Health

73-64-20
72-71-2
53-21-23
11-7-91

Top 2 lines are pretty interchangeable but I think this might be the play with what we got

 

[Cas]

Posted it on bsky, but I'll just say it here as well. Mario Ferraro is a hockey terrorist. He drags down every pairing he's been on and it's baffling he's still getting almost 20 minutes a night despite being horrendous

But he's blocks lots of shots! He even gives the puck up so that he can block more shots! What a warrior!

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

But he's blocks lots of shots! He even gives the puck up so that he can block more shots! What a warrior!

Unironically, I think that he has some value as a hardworking shot blocker 5-7D like Kris Russell;. But like Russell, he should be playing like 15 mins a night at most. Playing with Burns practically broke him. I think we just mishandled him from the beginning

 

[Cas]

Unironically, I think that he has some value as a hardworking shot blocker 5-7D like Kris Russell;. But like Russell, he should be playing like 15 mins a night at most. Playing with Burns practically broke him. I think we just mishandled him from the beginning

I don't think playing with Burns broke him so much as simply not having any NHL-level skills did. I'm not sure there is anything he is above-average at, and is awful in enough areas that he's just plain bad.

We thought he would develop and he was a rare bright spot in a tough year, but I think he just fundamentally isn't good enough for the NHL, was never going to be good enough, and we were just desperate for good news.

 

[Star Platinum]

Wow, Walman is so damn good. He's consistently one of the Sharks' best dmen. Could he be worth a 1st rounder if he continues to play well by the trade deadline?

I think there's zero chance the Sharks will be looking to move Walman, who is signed through 2026.

 

[Star Platinum]

A little worried that the line will have a very hard time in the defensive zone. Celebrini is responsible but he’s still learning and Smith and Toffoli aren’t exactly the fastest/most defensively responsible.

One thing the Sharks should not be overthinking is the defensive capabilities of their top two lines. This is a developmental year, not a "try hard to sneak into the playoffs" year. Coach up the young guys all you want to be better on that end, but give the young kids someone better than Goodrow to play with.

 

[coooldude]

A little worried that the line will have a very hard time in the defensive zone. Celebrini is responsible but he’s still learning and Smith and Toffoli aren’t exactly the fastest/most defensively responsible.

Yeah, this is why we won't likely see 73-71-2...
1. Unless we're at home so we can make sure they're not matching against a top line
2. one of them has to play their off wing, more natural to have Eklund join Celebrini and Smith and even then that line relies on Ek and Celebrini to do the dirty work. We are just short a big, skilled winger with at least some jam/grit. We really only have one (Zetts) and he's already 25 and on the right side as well.

Hopefully one of Musty, Chernyshov, Halttunen develops into it, or if we end up with Misa/ Martone, they fit the bill. But also, if this is the future - Smith is Macklin's RW - we are now short a top C organizationally.

 

[Jargon]

Yeah, this is why we won't likely see 73-71-2...
1. Unless we're at home so we can make sure they're not matching against a top line
2. one of them has to play their off wing, more natural to have Eklund join Celebrini and Smith and even then that line relies on Ek and Celebrini to do the dirty work. We are just short a big, skilled winger with at least some jam/grit. We really only have one (Zetts) and he's already 25 and on the right side as well.

Hopefully one of Musty, Chernyshov, Halttunen develops into it, or if we end up with Misa/ Martone, they fit the bill. But also, if this is the future - Smith is Macklin's RW - we are now short a top C organizationally.

I don’t think that the long term-goal is Smith at wing. I think they’re trying to get him some confidence and up to general NHL speed. It’s the Hertl plan for now.

 

[Jargon]

One thing the Sharks should not be overthinking is the defensive capabilities of their top two lines. This is a developmental year, not a "try hard to sneak into the playoffs" year. Coach up the young guys all you want to be better on that end, but give the young kids someone better than Goodrow to play with.

It’s not overthinking defensive capabilities, it’s simply building lines that don’t get hemmed in their zone for 2 minutes. If Celebrini and Smith mess up their coverage or don’t back check properly or whatever, they end up chasing the puck around their zone all shift. The hope is a defensive forward like Goodrow can help that a little.

 

[coooldude]

It’s not overthinking defensive capabilities, it’s simply building lines that don’t get hemmed in their zone for 2 minutes. If Celebrini and Smith mess up their coverage or don’t back check properly or whatever, they end up chasing the puck around their zone all shift. The hope is a defensive forward like Goodrow can help that a little.

Yeah, exactly, and it's not even a "defensive forward" necessarily, It's a forward who can go into a board battle as a favorite. Celebrini has that dawg in him so he'll get better at it, but Smith isn't able to do this - he'll win a few but it's typically an upset. Goodrow is actually pretty big and physical and this is one of his best attributes. The only other top 6 forward who can go into a battle with even or better odds is Zetterlund because he's a fridge. Eklund and Granlund have to battle with smarts and wiles.

 

[Barrie22]

Everyone blames burns for ruining Ferraro, but during that time if you seen a odd man rush happening against the sharks, it was always burns that was the lone player back defending it.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Everyone blames burns for ruining Ferraro, but during that time if you seen an odd man rush happening against the sharks, it was always burns that was the lone player back defending it.

Agreed. I don't think Burns ruined Ferraro, I think Burns is the only reason Ferraro still plays in the NHL.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

Everyone blames burns for ruining Ferraro, but during that time if you seen a odd man rush happening against the sharks, it was always burns that was the lone player back defending it.

No no no you got it all wrong. Ferraro was there on the odd man rush, he just went all the way over to Burns' side to take Burns' player, creating the odd man rush in a way

 

[Anomie2029]

Everyone blames burns for ruining Ferraro, but during that time if you seen a odd man rush happening against the sharks, it was always burns that was the lone player back defending it.

I think Burns taught him some bad habits, but definitely don't blame Burns for what Ferraro is.

I blame the Sharks for never holding Ferraro accountable. It's a mistake they continue to make.

 

[Hodge]

I think Burns taught him some bad habits, but definitely don't blame Burns for what Ferraro is.

I blame the Sharks for never holding Ferraro accountable. It's a mistake they continue to make.

What does holding Ferraro accountable even mean?

It's on Thrun, Thompson, Mukhamadullin, etc. to push Ferraro down the depth chart. None of them have done that yet.

 

[Juxtaposer]

What does holding Ferraro accountable even mean?

It's on Thrun, Thompson, Mukhamadullin, etc. to push Ferraro down the depth chart. None of them have done that yet.

Thrun and Thompson have both outperformed Ferraro this season.

 

[Anomie2029]

What does holding Ferraro accountable even mean?

It's on Thrun, Thompson, Mukhamadullin, etc. to push Ferraro down the depth chart. None of them have done that yet.

As @Juxtaposer has said, both Thrun and Thompson have already outperformed him.

But aside from that, remember earlier in the season when Warsofsky pushed Eklund to the 4th line to send a message, despite him not actually being outplayed by anyone on the bottom 6? Where's that punishment for Ferraro?

Out of interest, how bad would he need to be, in your opinion, to be healthy scratched at least a game? I get the feeling he could literally score on his own net intentionally and you'd still defend him being in the lineup.

 

[weastern bias]

I think Ferraro is a classic case of "too much too soon"

He was the only promising young player to emerge during the 2020 season when the team was trying to inject youth into the roster to replace some key exits and in turn was unexpectedly one of the worst teams in the entire league that year

The next season they gave him more responsibility and he seemingly scaled up his performance along side it, the 2021 team was by far the best of the post-drought pre-tank teams, so there was a lot of reason to be optimistic about Mario in the long term at that point

Then the next summer they put an 'A' on his sweater, anointed him as a young leader on the team and started treating him like an established player with a lock on a roster spot, at that time he no longer had anything to work towards and had both implicit and explicit confirmation from coaching and management that what he was doing was already good enough, all in the service of a player with 0 playoff games under his belt and who was only 23 years old at the time

Not only did he stop improving, he began a dramatic process of regression and has gotten steadily worse every single season since then, a year-over-year backslide to the unusable mess that we see out there today

Mario Ferraro could have been a useful NHL player but this organization reinforced all of his worse tendencies and failed to nurture his growth at an incredible sensitive time for his development, the Sharks really messed up with this player

 

[DG93]

What does holding Ferraro accountable even mean?

It's on Thrun, Thompson, Mukhamadullin, etc. to push Ferraro down the depth chart. None of them have done that yet.

How about benching his ass for a game like when Warso put Eklund on the 4th line? It's not like any of the bottom-6 guys were better than Eklund that game...it was just "message sending." Same thing here.

 

[Hodge]

As @Juxtaposer has said, both Thrun and Thompson have already outperformed him.

But aside from that, remember earlier in the season when Warsofsky pushed Eklund to the 4th line to send a message, despite him not actually being outplayed by anyone on the bottom 6? Where's that punishment for Ferraro?

Out of interest, how bad would he need to be, in your opinion, to be healthy scratched at least a game? I get the feeling he could literally score on his own net intentionally and you'd still defend him being in the lineup.

Thompson hasn't outperformed Ferraro and plays a completely different role anyway. Thrun has outperformed him in a few games and earned more ice time during the road trip as a result.

Ferraro is down over 2 minutes per game compared to last season. If Thrun can establish himself as a serious top 4 option and/or we acquire one from outside the organization, Ferraro will be relegated to the third pairing.

The difference between Ferraro and Eklund is that Eklund actually was underperforming relative to his talent level when Warsofsky moved him down the lineup. Ferraro is just not very good and there's no reason to think "sending him a message" will have any impact on his performance. He's doing his best and is just here to eat minutes until we get someone better.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Thompson hasn't outperformed Ferraro and plays a completely different role anyway. Thrun has outperformed him in a few games and earned more ice time during the road trip as a result.

Ferraro is down over 2 minutes per game compared to last season. If Thrun can establish himself as a serious top 4 option and/or we acquire one from outside the organization, Ferraro will be relegated to the third pairing.

The difference between Ferraro and Eklund is that Eklund actually was underperforming relative to his talent level when Warsofsky moved him down the lineup. Ferraro is just not very good and there's no reason to think "sending him a message" will have any impact on his performance. He's doing his best and is just here to eat minutes until we get someone better.

Except Warsofsky is on record saying that he thinks Mario can be better and has room for growth...

 

[coooldude]

Except Warsofsky is on record saying that he thinks Mario can be better and has room for growth...

I suspect this is the same kind of attitude that had Grier telling the media "Zadina has more to give" last year before failing to qualify him.

I have to believe that Grier and Warso understand what they have with Ferraro but like Hodge said, we just don't have anyone else right now.

Maybe if Mukh was healthy we wouldn't have to be having this convo. I hope/believe the org understands he's a place holder and "great in the room" (true and important) during the second tank season, but won't have a spot as soon as Thrun reliably plays 2LD and Mukh shows up to push him out of the lineup.

But we will see. Maybe I'm wrong and they have old time hockey glasses on.

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

with the shootout, wins dont feel like wins and losses dont feel like losses. It's really not a good system beyond just to end the game quickly and not randomly

It brings more eyes to the sport which it desperately needs. I understand the traditionalists view but ties are a terrible I think there’s a good argument for extending the 3 on 3 time which is a good idea but then the logistics of tv time is another factor

 

[TheBigDrunkPanda]

I suspect this is the same kind of attitude that had Grier telling the media "Zadina has more to give" last year before failing to qualify him.

I have to believe that Grier and Warso understand what they have with Ferraro but like Hodge said, we just don't have anyone else right now.

Maybe if Mukh was healthy we wouldn't have to be having this convo. I hope/believe the org understands he's a place holder and "great in the room" (true and important) during the second tank season, but won't have a spot as soon as Thrun reliably plays 2LD and Mukh shows up to push him out of the lineup.

But we will see. Maybe I'm wrong and they have old time hockey glasses on.

I think once Mario is slotted back into the bottom 3 he’ll be fine and become a sought after asset he’s just being put in positions where he’s going to fail 50% of the time, it also seems like he’s trying to do to much, kind of like the line in top gun maverick “don’t think do” would probably help him